Arabization Of Syria

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Arabization of Syria Feb 06, 2010
Kurds are the largest non-Arab ethnic minority in Syria, comprising about 8.5 to 10 percent of the population of 13.8 million. This report documents the situation of stateless Syrian-born Kurds -- 142,465 by the government's count, and well over 200,000 according to Kurdish sources -- who have been arbitrarily denied the right to Syrian nationality in violation of international law.

In 1962, an exceptional census stripped some 120,000 Syrian Kurds --20 percent of the Syrian Kurdish population -- of their Syrian citizenship. They were left stateless.

The census was one component of a comprehensive plan to Arabize the resources-rich northeast of Syria, an area with the largest concentration of non-Arabs in the country.

International human rights law provides ethnic, religious and linguistic minorities in every country the right to equal protection of the law without discrimination, and the right to enjoy their own culture, to profess and practice their own religion, or to use their own language. Syrian authorities violate these international standards with impunity through the use of discriminatory laws, decrees and directives that are applied only to the Kurdish minority.

Suppression of the ethnic identity of Kurds by Syrian authorities has taken many forms. Restrictions have included: various bans on the use of the Kurdish language; refusal to register children with Kurdish names; replacement of Kurdish place names with new names in Arabic; prohibition of businesses that do not have Arabic names; not permitting Kurdish private schools; and the prohibition of books and other materials written in Kurdish.


http://www.hrw.org/legacy/reports/1996/Syria.htm

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 06, 2010
So Syria has suddenly decided to erase the historical and cultural roots of some of its ethnic minorities.

This must be a recent decision, otherwise I find it hard to imagine why there is so little talk/outrage/indignation/finger waving/posturing/protests and mindless ranting against these blatantly racist laws.

Oh, the article said Syria. Never mind then.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 06, 2010
Suppression of the ethnic identity of Arabs by Israeli authorities has taken many forms. Restrictions have included: various bans on the use of the Arabic language; refusal to register children with Arabic names; replacement of Arabic place names with new names in Hebrew; prohibition of businesses that do not have Hebrew names; not permitting Arab private schools; and the prohibition of books and other materials written in Arabic.


fixed it for ya.

I now completely condemn the racist laws that seek to 'Hebrewize' Israel's Arab population. This is a symptom of the colonialist mindset first introduced into the Middle East since the Crusaders - when they sought to take over the Muslim world.

I only hope the BBC does a trillion stories on this.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 06, 2010
This world is just a mess ..

Ironically, Syria itself is of a non-Arabian background (except for the Syrian dessert that was inhabited with the Ghassani Arabs). Infact, it has been Arabized when the Aramaens/Syriacs gave up their own identity (be it by force or choice) and became Arabophonic with the arrival of Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula to Damascus during the Islamic conquest.

Syria's natives (Aramaens/Syriacs) are Semites, but not part of the Arabian stock. The difference between the two nations is identical to same differences between proper Arabs of the Arabian peninsula and the Sephardic Jews.

What's even more interesting is that Arabs in the Arabian Peninsula region even don't really consider Syrians/Lebanese/Palestineans to be from the proper Arabian stock, for their different backgrounds that was also mixed with the following nations in order, the Romans, Greeks, Persians, Kurds, and heavily later by the Turks. However, everyone is free to be whatever he or she or even it want to be.

Why not give the Kurds a piece of the cake? So all nations in the middle east got their portion, except for the Kurds. I think that's totally unfair. Poor Kurds have also faced horrible treatment & Arabizing process by Baathist Arabs in Iraq.

Any volunteers want to help form a proper Kurdistan :?:
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 07, 2010
event horizon wrote:So Syria has suddenly decided to erase the historical and cultural roots of some of its ethnic minorities.

This must be a recent decision, otherwise .....


Another epic fail on your part eh. Did you not notice that the FD was referring to incidents that took place last century! (Well, to be fair in the hrw report he quotes is from 1996) ;)

There are more recent attacks on Kurds by Iraq and Turkey. But I'm a bit puzzled why you think that what Syria did in the 1960s (before Israel occupied the Golan, West Bank, Gaza) would be 'suddenly decided' ?

On the oppression of the Kurds, I have to say that I have a good track record on this - I was speaking out against this before it became fashionable to back the Kurds. I was aware of Saddam gassing Kurds when he was still a friend of the west.

I've also spoken out against the oppression and killing of Kurds by the Turkish army. There the West turns a blind eye - with Nato planes even leaving the 'no fly zone' to allow Turkish planes to come in and bomb areas. Despite this, the Kurds are still pretty strong and established in northern Iraq, but not in southern Turkey.

The third main area of the Kurds is in Syria. And yes, there too they have been oppressed.

Ultimately, the blame lies with the powers that deliberately split the Kurdish majority area into three countries and didn't give the Kurds their homeland. This was not the Muslim's doing! ;

If it was up to me, I'd give the Kurds their homeland. However everyone is shit-scared of the Kurds becoming a political force again - and being in charge of the oil/gas rich region of Kurdistan. If I remember correctly, they are the one group of people that Alexander the Great failed to conquer, and the colonial powers recognised that that it would be better to divide and rule than to respect the demographics on the ground and give them their sovereign country.

So, FD/Eh - do you agree with me that Turkey, Iraq and Syria should all let the Kurds have their homeland - or were you expecting me to not criticise Muslim nations for their injustices against minorities?

I can see the parallel with Israel's injustices - but it's not quite the same is it? Israel is breaking international laws by building on the 22% of the land that was occupied in 1967 and trying to keep it despite clear laws which say land cannot be acquired by force. Palestinians were allocated 45% of the land by the UN and they are willing to settle for 22% - but the Kurds never had the UN declare them a state.

That said, kudos for bringing up the plight of the kurds (even if it is from a 14 year old report) - and I am all for highlighting the plight of oppressed minorities/occupied people - be they Kurds or Palestinian or, for that matter, East Timoreans (the latter having finally got some justice)


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Shafique
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 07, 2010
Oh dear, I see shafique's reading comprehension problems covers satire as well.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 07, 2010
What's the matter eh - was FD's post too long for you, or did my one use too many long words? :)

Or is it that you didn't expect us all to notice that this was a 14 year old report? (but perhaps you weren't aware of that fact?) ;)

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 07, 2010
So Syria has suddenly decided to erase the historical and cultural roots of some of its ethnic minorities.

This must be a recent decision, otherwise I find it hard to imagine why there is so little talk/outrage/indignation/finger waving/posturing/protests and mindless ranting against these blatantly racist laws.

Oh, the article said Syria. Never mind then.


I couldn't fool you. Other people (with grey matter) probably thought I was being sarcastic when I said these laws must have been recent - by pointing out the lack of genuine concern for the Kurds by their Muslim 'brethren'.

You so smart. Tell me what elementary school you graduated from, and I'll write a letter of praise to the principal. I'll tell him to put you in the 'challenged' classes.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 07, 2010
More ad hominem attacks I see.

I just made it clear in my post that there is indeed support for Kurds amongst their Muslim brethren - however I also pointed out that their homeland was carved up by non-Muslims and the attacks against them have historically been condoned by the West - just take the Turk's attacks against the Kurds as the most recent examples.

I invited you to join me in supporting their desire for national independence (something that sympatetic also says would be a good idea) - or did you not think that Muslims will object when minorities are oppressed. Perhaps you thought we only criticise Israel for its crimes?

I've started threads about Turkish refusal to accept the Armenian genocide and I have spoken about Indonesia's oppression in East Timor (supported by Australia).

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 07, 2010
event horizon wrote:So Syria has suddenly decided to erase the historical and cultural roots of some of its ethnic minorities.

This must be a recent decision, otherwise I find it hard to imagine why there is so little talk/outrage/indignation/finger waving/posturing/protests and mindless ranting against these blatantly racist laws.

Oh, the article said Syria. Never mind then.


event horizon wrote:
Suppression of the ethnic identity of Arabs by Israeli authorities has taken many forms. Restrictions have included: various bans on the use of the Arabic language; refusal to register children with Arabic names; replacement of Arabic place names with new names in Hebrew; prohibition of businesses that do not have Hebrew names; not permitting Arab private schools; and the prohibition of books and other materials written in Arabic.


fixed it for ya.

I now completely condemn the racist laws that seek to 'Hebrewize' Israel's Arab population. This is a symptom of the colonialist mindset first introduced into the Middle East since the Crusaders - when they sought to take over the Muslim world.

I only hope the BBC does a trillion stories on this.



These posts will be too sophisticated for most forum members.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 07, 2010
shafique wrote:Another epic fail on your part eh. Did you not notice that the FD was referring to incidents that took place last century! (Well, to be fair in the hrw report he quotes is from 1996) ;)


Told ya!
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 07, 2010
^^^Sometimes I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 08, 2010
I'm convinced you are in the Twilight zone! :)

But seriously - FD and you are implying that Muslims and the press at the time these events occured and the report was published 14 years ago did not speak out against the injustices to the Kurds.

I'm telling you that many did, and that the injustices were actually condoned by governments friendly with Turkey and Iraq when they attacked the Kurds living in their lands (more recently than the events in Syria).

If you are making a general point that we should support all oppressed minorities or those seeking freedom from occupiers - then I'm with you.

However, I suspect that the only reason FD dug out a 14 year old report was to somehow try and deflect attention away from Israeli current-day injustices.

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 09, 2010
My bad - I guess I was under the mistaken impression that these racist laws are still in effect. Which would explain the reason why I've never heard any Muslim denunciation of these racist laws until now.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 09, 2010
event horizon wrote:My bad - I guess I was under the mistaken impression that these racist laws are still in effect. Which would explain the reason why I've never heard any Muslim denunciation of these racist laws until now.


Perhaps, after all its a 14y old report. Those Kurds probably got their citizenship back and can use their language freely. If not, blame it on the Crusaders or the apes and the pigs.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 09, 2010
I smell more than whiff of hypocrisy here.

FD digs out a 14 year old report and expects Muslims to not condemn the treatment of Kurds.

The facts are that the Kurd homeland was divded between Turkey, Iraq and Syria by western powers. Nato was complicit in allowing Turkey to bomb Kurds freely in the no-fly-zone - and the west stood by when Sadaam gassed kurds- all more recently than the events in the report.

Muslims are quite capable of denouncing all injustices - whereas the fanbois object and name call when israel's crimes are discussed.

Good attempt though - only 14 years old ;)

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 09, 2010
Fascinating views - now, can you tell me if these racist laws are still in existence?
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 11, 2010
I'm interested in finding out too - good question eh. FD - you seem to be the resident expert on Syrian abuses, can you answer?

I'm happy to just condemn all abuses as they are mentioned - doesn't matter to me who is carrying them out - current day Syrian abuses should indeed be highlighted - I wouldn't want them to think that all the attention is only on its neighbour.

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 12, 2010
How could this be? I thought you were keeping up with those oppressed minorities facing racial discrimination?

Moreover, couldn't you check the BBC to find a story on this? I mean, I would imagine racial discrimination like this would be covered on a weekly basis by some journalist crusading for justice (or an axe to grind). Or at least in an oped column - with all those angry leftists/Muslims voicing their opinions of the injustices the Kurds face - because, they 'really' care about human rights for all.

Really, they do.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 12, 2010
You may not have noticed, but Israel's cover ups keep me busy, as do fanbois denying the facts over Gaza truces etc.

;)

Anyway, I'm glad that you've undergone a damascene conversion and are now (belatedly?) joining me in championing the cause of those oppressed people in the region. We'll let FD enlighten us as to how the Kurds are doing - I'm really only aware of the more recent injustices committed against them by Turkey and Iraq (and especially the Turkish attacks which took place with the apparent connivance of NATO).

Oh - or perhaps you were more interested in condemning Syria only for what they did in the 60's? I'm happy to join you in that condemnation, but surely you'll join me in speaking out against all injustices against Kurds, Palestinians etc?

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 13, 2010
You may not have noticed, but Israel's cover ups keep me busy, as do fanbois denying the facts over Gaza truces etc.


Ok, maybe if you have some spare time from posting on DF and other important stuff, you can check up on those Kurds.

You know, if you're not too busy.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 13, 2010
You really must spend some more time brushing up on your comprehension skills.

I have indeed been posting about the fate of the Kurds - I posted when Turkey bombed Kurds with the complicity of Nato, for example. I also was posting about Saddam's treatment of the Kurds before it was fashionable to denounce Saddam.

Please try and keep up.

It is FD that has brought up events which took place 50 years ago, and this is something I'm not aware of and I'm happy for him to inform us further and give us updates. (And, given this happened before I was born - I could hardly be blamed for not speaking up at the time. The best I can do is denounce it when it is mentioned here - which I've done. Compare and contrast with the excuses fanbois raise when Israel's real crimes are mentioned.)

I'm not surprised that your crocodile tears for Kurds have been exposed and you were more interested in scoring points and/or diverting attention away from your unanswered questions.

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 13, 2010
I agree you pay the mandatory lip service for the Kurds whenever their treatment is highlighted by non-Muslims (which, to be fair, is not very often - but hey, I guess non-Muslims can make a point so many times before we tire of having it fly past your head).

I was just wondering why you were not aware if these racist laws in Syria are still enforced because you probably keep up with the news - and the news must have kept up with the Kurds over the years, right?

(perhaps you must have missed all of those BBC news stories and UN resolutions on the Kurds)
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 13, 2010
shafique wrote: but Israel's cover ups keep me busy


That the understatement of the year.
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 14, 2010
Ahh, there I was thinking you were going to actually give us an update and join me in condemning the more recent attacks against Kurds by Iraq and Turkey. I've no issue in condemning something that happened 50 years ago and was mentioned in a 14 year old report - and thought (perhaps optimistically) that you'd come round to my point of view that we should speak up for minorities who are being oppressed - regardless of what religion they or their oppressors have!

So, when Nato helped Turkey with their bombing raids on Kurds - was that because they were being good Muslims? Or perhaps you think the Quran says it is ok to bomb other Muslims just as long as they belong to different tribes?

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 14, 2010
Interesting diversionary tactic on Turkey (I sometimes forget that Muslims aren't independent moral actors and others need to be blamed for their actions) - but what does this have to do with the racist laws of the Syrian government?

Oh - and have you found a UN resolution or BBC article clarifying whether Kurds can indeed legally speak their ancestral language in the state of Syria?
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 14, 2010
How is it diversionary to point out I spoke out against Kurds being killed by Turkish airplanes when it happened, but wasn't around when the events in FD's report from 14 years ago happened in the 60's?

You may have missed the fact I condemned the injustices against the Kurds in Syria, and invited you to join me in condemning the more recent injustices against Kurds in Iraq and Turkey (by Saddam and Turkey/Nato). In the latter, Kurdish civilians were killed!

Just because Israeli fanbois excuse Israeli injustices does not mean I will condone injustices committed against Muslims that are committed by Syria, Turkey, Nato or Saddam. Perhaps you think that everyone who opposes Israel must therefore support Syria/Iran/North Korea? That would be yet another (very) quaint and queer belief.

Right now, I'm not sure what your point is? Are you saying that pointing out that Nato has aided Turkey to kill Kurds is excusing what Syria did 50 years ago? I can't see how - I'm just pointing out that if you are really interested in the welfare of Kurds, you'll join me in also condemning the more recent acts against them.

We can wait for FD to snap out of his sarcastic mood and answer your question about whether the laws are still in place. (Perhaps he didn't realise his quote was from a 14 year old report and related to events in the 60s?)

But I do hope you will join me in sticking up for the Muslim Kurds. My solution is quite simple - let them have their homeland. What's your view?

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 14, 2010
but wasn't around when the events in FD's report from 14 years ago happened in the 60's?


Poor reading comprehension problems at work again. The report doesn't say that banning the Kurdish language was a relic from the 60s - just that twenty percent of Syria's Kurdish population were stripped of their citizenship after a census in the sixties (although Kurdish may also have been banned back then too).

The talk of the Kurdish language being banned in Syria was in regards to the present (and a simple google search confirms this).

So either this is a case of your poor reading skills or you simply did not read FD's article?

Which is it, poor reading skills or not reading linked articles - a or b?

(by Saddam and Turkey/Nato). In the latter, Kurdish civilians were killed!


Well, I would have to see evidence that NATO killed Kurdish civilians. Is this another of your quaint beliefs, such as Jesus was a speaker in the epistle of James or Muslims are attacked more often than Jews and Christians in the West?

you'll join me in also condemning the more recent acts against them.


Well, the article was printed fourteen years ago and the Kurdish language is still banned to this day in Syria, what more recent acts against the Kurds would you like me to condemn instead?

My solution is quite simple - let them have their homeland. What's your view?


Kurds already have somewhat of a de facto homeland (as this article explains) in northern Iraq, and in comparison to the rest of the region, it is actually prosperous.

Your argument seems to be with Kurds themselves, who more and more, are accepting the realities of the world and would rather work with Turkey on obtaining equal rights rather than create a mini-state within Turkey - something that would never happen and that Iraqi Kurdish leaders do not support for pragmatic reasons.

http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll ... 19960/1080
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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 15, 2010
What part of my statement condemning the Syrian actions and asking you to join me in condemning the more recent acts against the Kurds by Turkey and Iraq confused you dear boy?

So, you are ok with Kurds living in Iraq having a de-facto homeland (so am I) - but what about the parts of Kurdistan that are in Syria and Turkey? I guess you perhaps think the Kurds in Turkey aren't complaining about human rights abuses? I guess you are also unaware that the Kurds are hardly 'accepting reality' and are still advocating for a homeland (and being branded, predictably, as terrorists by Turkey).

There has a been an armed insurgency in Turkey for the past 20 years or so, Turkey bans any political parties whose aim is seperatism (and hence have banned several Kurdish parties) etc etc.

It appears reality and your understanding of the situation about Kurdish nationalism in Turkey is as accurate as your knowledge of Islam. ;) (You seemed to be arguing that Kurds in Turkey are 'accepting reality' and not advocating for an independent homeland - or perhaps you'll claim I misunderstood you?? ;) )

As for Nato complicity in the bombing of Kurds by Turkey - I suggest you just do a Google, I can't really spoon feed you all the time.

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Re: Arabization of Syria Feb 16, 2010
I can see you're not reading the links provided. Disappointed but not surprised.

You seemed to be arguing that Kurds in Turkey are 'accepting reality' and not advocating for an independent homeland - or perhaps you'll claim I misunderstood you??


Please follow rule number one. If you're still confused, click the link already provided. If you're still confused.....

As for Nato complicity in the bombing of Kurds by Turkey - I suggest you just do a Google, I can't really spoon feed you all the time.


I take it you don't have evidence that NATO killed Kurdish civilians (AMNT), which is what you claimed here:

shafique wrote:(by Saddam and Turkey/Nato). In the latter, Kurdish civilians were killed!
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