Arab Life Worth Less Than A Jew?

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Arab life worth less than a Jew? Nov 21, 2010
An Israeli member of Knesset, and Deputy Speaker, denounces the court sentence passed on two soldiers who used a 9 year old boy as a human shield.

Note that a vocal number of Israelis opposed the trial of these soldiers (supporting their actions) - but I'd like to believe that the majority of Israelis are as abhorred at the crime committed and the leniency of the sentences as most decent people would be.

Fewer and fewer people are tolerant of the racist attitudes that underlie these actions - both of the soldiers and of the IDF court's sentence.

Tibi: For Israel, the life of an Arab has less value

Israeli Arab lawmaker slams IDF court decision to hand suspended sentences to soldiers who used Palestinian boy to open suspicious packages.

By Haaretz Service
Tags: Israel news IDF Gaza

By handing light sentences to IDF soldiers who knowingly risked the life of a non-combatant Palestinian child, an Israel Defense Forces court has conveyed a message that the lives of Arabs have less value than the lives of Jews, Deputy Knesset Speaker Ahmed Tibi said Sunday.

Tibi made the comments after an IDF court demoted two Givati Brigade staff sergeants to the rank of sergeant, and handed them suspended sentences of three months each for inappropriate conduct during Israel's offensive in the Gaza Strip in 2008.


Deputy Knesset Speaker Ahmed Tibi spars with National Union MK Michael Ben Ari

Photo by: Emil Salman

The military court found the soldiers guilty last month of forcing a nine-year-old Palestinian boy to open a number of bags they thought could contain explosive materials. The bags eventually turned out to be free of any explosives.

"The entire system conveys the message that the life of a Arab, especially the life of a Palestinian child, is worth less. It's no surprise that up to now, hundreds of Palestinian children have been killed by the Israeli army, and it has not led to any punishments or even condemnation," Tibi said.

"This whole court case has been a grand deception from the start. These soldiers deserve to be sent to jail, with their commanders in tow," Tibi added.

National Union MK Michael Ben Ari praised the convicted soldiers and condemned their demotion.

"The judicial lynch perpetrated on the Givati heroes is a sign of surrender to the enemies of Israel, who are interested in castrating our ability to pulverize the enemy. The Givati soldiers deserve to be awarded medals, not a judicial lynch," Ben Ari said.

Following the sentencing, another Givati soldier told Army Radio that all the soldiers involved in the incident were left with "a sense of satisfaction and joy over the sentence."

"I don't know how many people have been in combat situations, but if it won’t end well if we are made to think about every thing we do," the IDF soldier said.

The soldier added that "no one thinks that 'neighbor procedure' is positive… but does that mean that decision soldiers have to make during an operation should enter a courtroom? Will we find ourselves in court every time we are forced to confront a civilian population?"

Last month's conviction triggered a wave of protests. The trial's opening session was accompanied by a demonstration of more than 200 Israelis, including reservists, outside the court.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... e-1.325892

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Shafique

shafique
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Re: Arab life worth less than a Jew? Nov 22, 2010
Was the race card just thrown in there as a power word?

Because I can't see anything inherently racist in using human shields. For instance, are Muslims therefore racist when they use each other as human shields? The Mongols?

As far as certain lives being worth more than others, in Saudi Arabia, Muslim men are worth more than Muslim women, non-Muslim men and much more than non-Muslim women.

Racism?
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Re: Arab life worth less than a Jew? Nov 22, 2010
Interesting that the objection seems to be with the Deputy Speaker's choice of words used to condemn the IDF's decision and not the crime itself.

But, you are right eh - perhaps we could construct a reality where the race of the child did not matter and that the IDF soldiers are just immoral soldiers who would have done the same thing to a Jewish child. However, that is asking for quite a stretch of the imagination - and in any case, the Deputy Speaker was criticising the court's decision about how to punish the crime of the soldiers.

Your desperate wish that the soldiers aren't racist is touching.

But as this is your belief - there's no point arguing about the crimes of the soldiers, so you are free to go back and comment on crimes of Muslims as I'm sure that will make you feel better.

(And of course, no one will accuse you of using 'Muslim' as a power word when describing the crimes of Muslims.. but we've noted that you object to the label 'Arab' when used for victims of Israeli crimes. I certainly won't, because I now agree with the advice that it is best to ignore Islamophobic rants. ;) )

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Re: Arab Life Worth Less Than A Jew? Nov 22, 2010
I don't think it has anything to do with whether one is a Jew or Muslim, or an Israeli or Palestinian, but rather who is the enemy and who is not. When there is war there is a degradation of ethics and it boils down to friend vs foe. In this case the Jewish Israeli soldiers used a Muslim Palestinian child to open bags that could contain bombs, which they thought were created by the enemy to destroy them. So, yes it is terribly unethical to use a child to do such a thing, but this was an enemy child who was fair game because if he got blown up then the enemy was responsible for the death of their own. The flaw is that the Israeli soldiers would really have been responsible for that death, because that child should never have been put in that position. However, they don't see it that way - only their lives are important and life of the enemy is inconsequential. So this is not about race, it is about the ruthlessness of war. I've said it before, but again I'm not under any illusion that Muslims are more ethical than other groups of people when they are participating in a war against others. The lowest of ethical behaviour comes out of any human whose goal is to kill enemies and protect their own life.
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Re: Arab Life Worth Less Than A Jew? Nov 22, 2010
Kanelli - I get your point that the crimes may just be against Palestinian's in the occupied territories rather than against non-Jews. I think that's a stretch.. but a valid viewpoint.

Do you disagree with the politician's view that the soldiers should have been jailed for the crime (whether it was racially motivated or not)?

His point is that the leniency showed to them is because of racism - that the punishments for killing of Arab children reflects racism:

"The entire system conveys the message that the life of a Arab, especially the life of a Palestinian child, is worth less. It's no surprise that up to now, hundreds of Palestinian children have been killed by the Israeli army, and it has not led to any punishments or even condemnation," Tibi said.


Are you just saying that a 'enemy child' is indeed worth less in Israeli eyes? I don't think this makes it any less of a crime.

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Re: Arab Life Worth Less Than A Jew? Nov 22, 2010
But you are bringing in the "Israeli" part, but I'm saying it doesn't matter which religion or nationality. Look at all the crap done to children all over the world in the name of war.

In this case I do wish the soldiers were punished heavily. However, what can you expect from a military that likely doesn't teach their soldiers to have a line of ethics. Of course they will be lenient.

It is a crime to use a child like that, it really is.
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Re: Arab Life Worth Less Than A Jew? Nov 22, 2010
The criticism is of the Israeli military judicial system - it's hard to comment on the crime without commenting on the 'Israeli' part.

I would disagree that the crime can be generalised to any conflict. I'd like to think that if British, US or Canadian soldiers were found guilty of the same crime, the prosecutors would not view the life of an Arab child as less than that of a British, US or Canadian child.

But I do agree with you that the fault (for the crime) is with the Israeli army which doesn't teach their soldiers this aspect of ethics.

I would, though, have a lot of sympathy for the view that this is a racist view and that just viewing an 'Arab' child as an 'enemy' in a situation where they've invaded non-Israeli territory does stem from a racist viewpoint. But that would just be quibbling over labels 'Arab' vs 'Enemy' - when applied to the child.

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Re: Arab Life Worth Less Than A Jew? Nov 22, 2010
If you are of the opinion that it is racism at work, then you are entitled to your opinion. If it were the British, US or Canadian army in question they would try to sweep it under the rug, and they'd come up with some kind of punishment for the soldiers if the truth came out. I doubt they'd jail them for the equivalent of an attempted murder charge, which is what they should get. If the child is of some other origin than the soldiers there can always be a claim of racism I guess. Judging from the conduct of so many military personnel around the world, it doesn't seem to me that ethics is a subject taught well in military training courses.
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Re: Arab Life Worth Less Than A Jew? Nov 22, 2010
In this case, though, kanelli - the crime was brought out into the open and the charge of racism is against the IDF court (not the soldiers). I do agree with the Speaker's conclusions - but I can also see the alternative viewpoint that it is just criminal lapse and not down to hating non-Jews.

I'd like to think that if it did go to a US, Brit or Canadian court, the accusation of racism would not be made and a more stringent punishment would have been meted out. But, that's just a matter of opinion.

From my knowledge of the rules of engagement taught to the Brits etc - I would also like to think they'd know it was wrong (ethically and legally) to use children in this way.

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Re: Arab life worth less than a Jew? Nov 22, 2010
Your desperate wish that the soldiers aren't racist is touching.


It can't be racism since Jews and Arabs both belong to the same 'race'.

But I agree with you that logic is best to be ignored when accusing Israelis of racism.

After all, it's only societies where racism is looked down negatively upon and that take charges of racism very seriously that you'll find are accused of being 'racist'.

I can't imagine anyone would accuse an Arab army, if they were to use Kurds as human shields, of being racist, since the charge of racism wouldn't stick in the minds of the people you're calling racist.

BTW, where's Benji to complain that you're playing the race card?
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Re: Arab Life Worth Less Than A Jew? Nov 22, 2010
What no one has commented on yet is the fact that some Israelis think the soldiers deserve a medal!

National Union MK Michael Ben Ari praised the convicted soldiers and condemned their demotion.

"The judicial lynch perpetrated on the Givati heroes is a sign of surrender to the enemies of Israel, who are interested in castrating our ability to pulverize the enemy. The Givati soldiers deserve to be awarded medals, not a judicial lynch," Ben Ari said.


And this guy is also a member of parliament! :shock:

(I guess he would also swear blindly that hatred of Arabs does not amount to racism :roll: )

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