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jabbajabba wrote:1. To much sand - way to much for sticking a city there. It is a desert location, look how many places are built on the beach (sand) in the world, which has people just flocking to lay down on it???

2. Not enough greenery and no seasons (apart from hot and mentally hot) - largely due to point one. Plenty of greenery in the UAE, you obviously never looked???

3. Idiot Drivers. You ever driven in Bombay / Lagos / Paris / Rome???

4. Pretense (Ohh Dubai - the vision, all that crap). The vision is real, if you can't see it I feel sorry for you.

5. Racism. Try Georgia USA

6. Lame Internet connection, stupid site blocks. Etisalat runs a Proxy, so what???

7. Arcane laws. Says who???

8. A big void of creativity in Music, Art, Theater (And I am not talking about US artists coming out here to make a nice wad of dollars), I mean local artists. If you ever took the time to look you will find plenty of talent, if you don't like the music that has nothing to do with whether their is talent or not???

9. Destroying the local marine life with ridiculous property projects that will no doubt be 30 meters under the sea in ten years from now. One mans point of view completely unsubstantiated???

10. Way to much construction and disillusioned workers wandering around thinking how bad a decision it was to come to Dubai. To come to Dubai or not is a decision made by the worker and not by Dubai, what about the hundreds of thousands that are literally supporting millions of people back in their countries???

12. It sucks - which is why I left

sage & onion wrote: 5. Racism. Try Georgia USA

sage & onion wrote: One mans point of view completely unsubstantiated???

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote: 5. Racism. Try Georgia USA

I should know better than response to moronic posts like yours Sage but obviously you have been watching too many movies. To compare present day Georgia, USA to Dubai in terms of racism is absolutely ludricrous - what expected from you. Surely there is racism everwhere, including Georgia, but people lose jobs, careers and go to prison for racist comments and acts - unlike Dubai where it is very overt! Just look at the newspaper adverstisement (rent and jobs) - "europeans only", "westerners only" - and this does not mean a person of indian decent born and raised in a european or western country - or "arabs only" or "indians only" etc. etc.

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote: 5. Racism. Try Georgia USA

I should know better than response to moronic posts like yours Sage but obviously you have been watching too many movies. To compare present day Georgia, USA to Dubai in terms of racism is absolutely ludricrous - what expected from you. Surely there is racism everwhere, including Georgia, but people lose jobs, careers and go to prison for racist comments and acts - unlike Dubai where it is very overt! Just look at the newspaper adverstisement (rent and jobs) - "europeans only", "westerners only" - and this does not mean a person of indian decent born and raised in a european or western country - or "arabs only" or "indians only" etc. etc.

sage & onion wrote:

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote: 5. Racism. Try Georgia USA

I should know better than response to moronic posts like yours Sage but obviously you have been watching too many movies. To compare present day Georgia, USA to Dubai in terms of racism is absolutely ludricrous - what expected from you. Surely there is racism everwhere, including Georgia, but people lose jobs, careers and go to prison for racist comments and acts - unlike Dubai where it is very overt! Just look at the newspaper adverstisement (rent and jobs) - "europeans only", "westerners only" - and this does not mean a person of indian decent born and raised in a european or western country - or "arabs only" or "indians only" etc. etc.

Typical American denial, and my comment is not from newspaper or internet, I have seen it first hand, many times.
The reply to the post was how many items?, as usual you choose to take one item which obviously suits you and then blow it up out of all proportion.

mbwa shenzi wrote:You gotta take the rough with the smooth, and be grateful for the good aspects of life in the Emirates. Because it is good. Like I said before, get over to Saudi or Kuwait (Or Nigeria if you're a real sadist!!)for a few years. Then you'd appreciate this place a bit more.

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote: 5. Racism. Try Georgia USA

I should know better than response to moronic posts like yours Sage but obviously you have been watching too many movies. To compare present day Georgia, USA to Dubai in terms of racism is absolutely ludricrous - what expected from you. Surely there is racism everwhere, including Georgia, but people lose jobs, careers and go to prison for racist comments and acts - unlike Dubai where it is very overt! Just look at the newspaper adverstisement (rent and jobs) - "europeans only", "westerners only" - and this does not mean a person of indian decent born and raised in a european or western country - or "arabs only" or "indians only" etc. etc.

Typical American denial, and my comment is not from newspaper or internet, I have seen it first hand, many times.
The reply to the post was how many items?, as usual you choose to take one item which obviously suits you and then blow it up out of all proportion.

It is neither denial nor typical. Again, predictably you miss the point. The point is that the Racism in Dubai can't be compared to the racism in Georgia. Dubai rascism is worth by far. Learn to read and comprehend what you read for crissake!

mbwa shenzi wrote:Well, leaving aside the 'racism' comment (Which is DIFFERENT from a bit of racial discrimination, and does happen everywhere), Sage is making a good point about the fact that some people come to Dubai, sit on their backsides and expect some kind of utopia. the Utopia is only available if you get out and about, and make an effort. And sometimes it does take alot of effort. It ain't all 'wine and roses'.

You gotta take the rough with the smooth, and be grateful for the good aspects of life in the Emirates. Because it is good. Like I said before, get over to Saudi or Kuwait (Or Nigeria if you're a real sadist!!)for a few years. Then you'd appreciate this place a bit more.

sage & onion wrote:

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote: 5. Racism. Try Georgia USA

I should know better than response to moronic posts like yours Sage but obviously you have been watching too many movies. To compare present day Georgia, USA to Dubai in terms of racism is absolutely ludricrous - what expected from you. Surely there is racism everwhere, including Georgia, but people lose jobs, careers and go to prison for racist comments and acts - unlike Dubai where it is very overt! Just look at the newspaper adverstisement (rent and jobs) - "europeans only", "westerners only" - and this does not mean a person of indian decent born and raised in a european or western country - or "arabs only" or "indians only" etc. etc.

Typical American denial, and my comment is not from newspaper or internet, I have seen it first hand, many times.
The reply to the post was how many items?, as usual you choose to take one item which obviously suits you and then blow it up out of all proportion.

It is neither denial nor typical. Again, predictably you miss the point. The point is that the Racism in Dubai can't be compared to the racism in Georgia. Dubai rascism is worth by far. Learn to read and comprehend what you read for crissake!

The whole point is that their is racism everywhere, not only in Dubai. Your only point is to criticise certain members of the forum at any given opportunity.

Concord wrote:I only criticize you becuase you are an idiot. Name anyone else I've criticized?

sage & onion wrote:

Concord wrote:I only criticize you becuase you are an idiot. Name anyone else I've criticized?

No need to, we all know you from old. I see that you have now started the insults, when will you fill the public forum full of foul language?

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Concord wrote:I only criticize you becuase you are an idiot. Name anyone else I've criticized?

No need to, we all know you from old. I see that you have now started the insults, when will you fill the public forum full of foul language?

Sine when is truth "foul language"?

sage & onion wrote:

Concord wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

Concord wrote:I only criticize you becuase you are an idiot. Name anyone else I've criticized?

No need to, we all know you from old. I see that you have now started the insults, when will you fill the public forum full of foul language?

Sine when is truth "foul language"?

As we all know what you are capable of, lets just wait until you can't hold it back any longer.

Concord wrote:Now you are "we". Laughfable.

I should know better than response to moronic posts like yours Sage but obviously you have been watching too many movies.

mbwa shenzi wrote:Hmmm. methinks you lot need a few years in Kuwait or Saudi to soften you up a bit. You'd call Dubai Heaven then.

sage & onion wrote:1. To much sand - way to much for sticking a city there. It is a desert location, look how many places are built on the beach (sand) in the world, which has people just flocking to lay down on it???

I was being sarcastic here, but there are better cases you could use then a beach A beach is a small strip of land next to some water - we are talking about an entire city here. But I concur there is nothing to say you can't build a city in a desert (las vegas for example), you just need to clean you windows and sweep all the sand out of your yard a bit more often I also can't imagine laying down just anywhere in Dubai cause there is sand around, so not sure I get your point there?

2. Not enough greenery and no seasons (apart from hot and mentally hot) - largely due to point one. Plenty of greenery in the UAE, you obviously never looked???

Yep - I used to look forward to going to Dubai Creek Park. On the whole it needs 20,000 tons of water pumped in too stop it from dieing in a space as short as 1 month. Its not quite a natural to the that environment is it?

3. Idiot Drivers. You ever driven in Bombay / Lagos / Paris / Rome???

I have driven in Bangkok, Cairo, London, Florida and of course Dubai. Dubai I found as was the worst and most dangerous - more then Cairo and that is saying something.

4. Pretense (Ohh Dubai - the vision, all that crap). The vision is real, if you can't see it I feel sorry for you.

Thanks for feeling sorry for me. I can see it all right, but i found it all quite grandiose (must be the biggest, best and number one). But I must say it was a harsh statement and a lot of it is tourist PR promotion which every city in the world does.

5. Racism. Try Georgia USA

Can't comment on that as never been there.

6. Lame Internet connection, stupid site blocks. Etisalat runs a Proxy, so what???

It slows down and already over priced service which is way behind the speed and prices available in a majority of other countries.

It censors anyone who may happen to hold a different view on what the government holds (especially if there is any critic involved).

7. Arcane laws. Says who???

Says me.

8. A big void of creativity in Music, Art, Theater (And I am not talking about US artists coming out here to make a nice wad of dollars), I mean local artists. If you ever took the time to look you will find plenty of talent, if you don't like the music that has nothing to do with whether their is talent or not???

Maybe I was wrong to say this. Can you name a thriving local scene (not just emirate local, but anyone who lives in Dubai) bands, actors, film directors, writers, artists and I will look into it. Something a bit more then a blues cover band or bar room singer as well please.

9. Destroying the local marine life with ridiculous property projects that will no doubt be 30 meters under the sea in ten years from now. One mans point of view completely unsubstantiated???

So you honestly think dumping thousands of ton's of sand on a reef is good for it?

10. Way to much construction and disillusioned workers wandering around thinking how bad a decision it was to come to Dubai. To come to Dubai or not is a decision made by the worker and not by Dubai, what about the hundreds of thousands that are literally supporting millions of people back in their countries???

So that is a valid reason to allow the exploitation - because they are supporting families back home. From what I have heard many of them are in dept to some agency and half the building sites are totally unsafe which has resulted in numerous deaths. And before you jump onto saying it is not the fault of the government, I never said it was - I just did not like it and I felt uncomfortable with the situation which I was I donated most of what I had left and owned to them on leaving.

Just found another good web site (looks new) on this whole subject - but it is probably blocked (which ties in with point 6)

http://www.mafiwasta.com


12. It sucks - which is why I left You obviously failed in what you came to do, thats why you left???

Well theres no need to get nasty about it - I was saying about what I did not like about a city. But anyway I left as I finished my work contract and moved on as it was not for me as you can see I could also provide a list of points I really liked and enjoyed. But the topic is 'what do you not like' - so that's what I stated, not quite sure why this frowned upon so much, which brings me to my last point;



13. People are way to precious about someone saying what they don't like about Dubai.

jabbajabba wrote:So that is a valid reason to allow the exploitation - because they are supporting families back home. From what I have heard many of them are in dept to some agency and half the building sites are totally unsafe which has resulted in numerous deaths. And before you jump onto saying it is not the fault of the government, I never said it was - I just did not like it and I felt uncomfortable with the situation which I was I donated most of what I had left and owed to them on leaving.

Just found another good web site (looks new) on this whole subject - but it is probably blocked (which ties in with point 6)

http://www.mafiwasta.com


12. It sucks - which is why I left You obviously failed in what you came to do, thats why you left???

Well theres no need to get nasty about it - I was saying about what I did not like about a city. But anyway I left as I finished my work contract and moved on as it was not for me as you can see I could also provide a list of points I really liked and enjoyed. But the topic is 'what do you not like' - so that's what I stated, not quite sure why this frowned upon to much, which brings me to my last point;

13. People are way to precious about someone saying what they don't like about Dubai.

sage & onion wrote:
Is it exploitation?, and who exactly is doing the exploiting?

Many Building sites are not as safe as we (Being a Western point of view) would like and lots of people in construction are trying to make it safer, however, the Safety culture (or complete lack of) that comes with the workers is sometimes very hard to overcome.

The website, is surprisingly not blocked, although most of what is written is somewhat dated.

Now your reason for leaving is vastly different from what you wrote, you had finished what you had to do and left.

I am glad to know that you did indeed enjoy some of your stay.

I also don't like many things about Dubai, however when I weigh it all up the positives definately outweigh the negatives.

jabbajabba wrote:So you think $106 to $250 a month is ok because they come from a poorer country, that is messed up in my opinion. Why should someone make less because they come from a poorer country or not enjoyed the luxuries of me or you?

That is exploitation to me - exploiting the situation of the existing levels of poverty in the countries in which they employ from on mass numbers.

arniegang wrote:with respect Conc the first sentence of the post in reply to sage stated thus:

I should know better than response to moronic posts like yours Sage but obviously you have been watching too many movies.

Maybe putting in a reply and whether or not you agree with whoever would be better taken without it being personal and offensive.

arniegang wrote:Sage is entitled to his opinion whether you agree/like it or not.

xty wrote:Damn... I think I'm underpaid I hope to find a better company someday to appreciate myself and to match/surpass "Westerner standard", though I'm feeling more skillful & have more experience than some of previous "Westerner" colleagues of mine

Anyway, from one perspective we think that they are being exploited. True. But for most of them, it's already a blessing to work abroad (even have to be in debt or sell their home) and can send some money back home, more than what they can earn when working in their own country with even better condition.

Time to ask a raise!

mbwa shenzi wrote:Ok, Jabba Jabba...wasn't having a go at you personally. The topic was indeed 'What you dislike about Dubai', and you laid down your opinions (and then later had to defend them!). Each one of your points definately has some validity, I was suprised at the emotion it stirred in other people!! It's just that similar things could be said about any city in the world, and as we've just discovered, those who love Dubai are fiercely loyal to our overheated sandpit!

I guess you've moved onto something better, and I'm not denying such places definately exist. (I would certainly appreciate a nice contract in the Cayman Islands!!). As for myself, my lifestyle, the contract I'm on... this place suits me, and it's one of the better places I've worked.

Have to admit though...I love living in the Emirates, but most of what I love is outside of Dubai city itself. (Except for 'Dubliners' pub!!)

Is there a forum somewhere called 'What you dislike about Bangkok'? Cos I really blo*dy hate the place with a passion. I imagine I'd get the same response you did if I posted on that forum!!

jabbajabba wrote:Incredible - on one hand you are highlighting your situation and how it is unjust that you make less money then 'Westerner' colleagues - and then you go on to become a spokesman for men far less unfortunate then you and make claim that it's a blessing for them to be in debt and sell there homes.

To be honest the only time I here a claim that they are better off here - is from everyone apart from the workers themselves.