Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

Bora Bora wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:For a indigenous population to be rendered a minority inside their own homelands is at best a folly of unbelievable magnitude.

Then how do you account for Austrailian Aborigines and Native American Indians?

Geez BB that is purely an emotive argument. How is it relevant at all? The past is the past, the future is entirely different.
Now here's a unique way to look at the Aborgines and Native Americans.... (i don't really follow the going on's with those two groups of people so here are a few questions......... as a minority group(Australian Aborgines, Native Americans) are they happy? Do they feel privileged? As a minority group did they see their rights being trampled upon? Do they feel their culture and traditions get enough mainstream publicity and promotion? If their responses are negative then that is exactly what will happen to the next minority group. Plain and simple.

Misery Called Life wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:For a indigenous population to be rendered a minority inside their own homelands is at best a folly of unbelievable magnitude.

Then how do you account for Austrailian Aborigines and Native American Indians?

Geez BB that is purely an emotive argument. How is it relevant at all? The past is the past, the future is entirely different.
Now here's a unique way to look at the Aborgines and Native Americans.... (i don't really follow the going on's with those two groups of people so here are a few questions......... as a minority group(Australian Aborgines, Native Americans) are they happy? Do they feel privileged? As a minority group did they see their rights being trampled upon? Do they feel their culture and traditions get enough mainstream publicity and promotion? If their responses are negative then that is exactly what will happen to the next minority group. Plain and simple.

Geez MCL, I can't answer for either group. But I can give a view on the American Native Indians. Are NAI happy - more than likely not. Do they feel privileged - definitely not - cheated is more like it. With the "making" of America, they were left with very little land, where today tribes still live and the customs of the various tribes exist. It took a long time for NAI to reclaim - or were "gifted" back some land - by the US government. Today there are some very rich NAI tribes due to the gambling casinos that are built on their land which revenue stays among the tribes. The NAI was forgotten and dismissed until they realized that they were due certain rights as being the first true "American" settlers and they went after those rights, winning few and losing many. But they still remain a minority. I think the US did more for the NAI than Australia did for the Aborigines.

And the next minority group in the US will be?? Those that fall under the category of "White", not ethnicity, but based on the color of their skin.

kanelli wrote:I think that eventually there will be far fewer whites, but who cares? Having a homeland has nothing to do with your physical appearance - in the future the language and dress will likely be the only way to tell where people come from. Even if that becomes more homogenous I think it wouldn't be a bad thing. Imagine a world where people are more alike than different... more peace and harmony

Yeah, I hear Nazi Germany was a real success story.

Anyways, people aren't born equal, the comments responding to my post only prove my point, otherwise all who spend the same amount of time much playing basketball would all be equal in talent and ability.

For race, there are clear physiological & anatomical differences between the races - West Africans have a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers giving them quick bursts of speed. That's why Jamaicans completely dominate 40-100m races and East Africans, who have the highest percentage of slow twitch muscle fibers, dominate marathon races.

Asians more than compensate in other areas, such as intelligence - East Asians - and European Jews - are the most gifted in mathematics and they also have larger brain volume than Whites and Blacks.

People evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to specific conditions. It would be hard to believe they all happened to pick up the same traits that allowed them to survive in different environments.

event horizon wrote:For race, there are clear physiological & anatomical differences between the races - West Africans have a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers giving them quick bursts of speed. That's why Jamaicans completely dominate 40-100m races and East Africans, who have the highest percentage of slow twitch muscle fibers, dominate marathon races.

Asians more than compensate in other areas, such as intelligence - East Asians - and European Jews - are the most gifted in mathematics and they also have larger brain volume than Whites and Blacks.

People evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to specific conditions. It would be hard to believe they all happened to pick up the same traits that allowed them to survive in different environments.

Well there are good and bad things that came come out of inter-racial marriages and the extension thereof.
Good thing: share all the good traits
Bad thing: some will inherit your stupidity.

No need to worry as long as there is Michael Jackson bleach around.

event horizon wrote:Anyways, people aren't born equal, the comments responding to my post only prove my point, otherwise all who spend the same amount of time much playing basketball would all be equal in talent and ability.

For race, there are clear physiological & anatomical differences between the races - West Africans have a higher percentage of fast twitch muscle fibers giving them quick bursts of speed. That's why Jamaicans completely dominate 40-100m races and East Africans, who have the highest percentage of slow twitch muscle fibers, dominate marathon races.

Asians more than compensate in other areas, such as intelligence - East Asians - and European Jews - are the most gifted in mathematics and they also have larger brain volume than Whites and Blacks.

People evolved over hundreds of thousands of years to specific conditions. It would be hard to believe they all happened to pick up the same traits that allowed them to survive in different environments.

Even during the time where I went off to extreme views (which I regret and thank God for curing myself from it), I never thought of dividing races and nations based on such weird conclusions. Its always a matter of chances and opportunities. Black, Asian, Middle Easterns with all their groups, White, etc. we are all EQUAL.

It caught my mind how you only acknowledge "European Jews" with regard to mathematics, but you completely ignored the fact that Iranians were the most productive and contributed more effectively in Maths! The numerics you use today and the 0, as well as the algorithim, and algebra sciences of mathematics were all set mainly by Iranians and not Jews. Greeks and Arabs have also contributed thoroughly, and not to forget the ancient civilizations such as the Sumerians, Egyptions, and Assyrians who mastered other stuff which can't be ignored. The civilizations of South America, the ancient Chinese, etc. All nations once given the opportunity and chance will surely produce and achieve more. It has NOTHING to do with races!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ir ... d_scholars

-- Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:15 pm --

Bora Bora wrote:Well there are good and bad things that came come out of inter-racial marriages and the extension thereof.
Good thing: share all the good traits
Bad thing: some will inherit your stupidity.

symmetric wrote:How ethical it is to address white to be "upper class" in contrast to Indians & Blacks ..?
There is no such thing as superior race. We all share the same ancesstors (Adam & Hawwa).

In most countries you get sued for calling names a black, an arab, an indian, a whatever....but nobody gets sued for calling names a white. Hence the white race must be superior.

No, thats because of the massive guilt of how the "whites" have treated almost every other race up until recently.

capsicum wrote:

symmetric wrote:How ethical it is to address white to be "upper class" in contrast to Indians & Blacks ..?
There is no such thing as superior race. We all share the same ancesstors (Adam & Hawwa).

In most countries you get sued for calling names a black, an arab, an indian, a whatever....but nobody gets sued for calling names a white. Hence the white race must be superior.

If "white" was superior then why did it rely so badly on the Middle East's Semitic and Iranic nations with regard to approaching civilization? Starting with linguistics, sciences, numbers, religion, and even your names. If white was superior, then it would've developed by itself independently.

Your comment is very lame. I don't want to go down to your low level.
I don't need to degrade European people to show that my Persian race is better.

Best joke of the year.
Decline of Persia started with the rise of Greece, birth of western civilization after Xerxes got his a$$ kicked 2500 years ago by a tiny army. You loser.

symmetric wrote:
It caught my mind how you only acknowledge "European Jews" with regard to mathematics, but you completely ignored the fact that Iranians were the most productive and contributed more effectively in Maths! The numerics you use today and the 0, as well as the algorithim, and algebra sciences of mathematics were all set mainly by Iranians and not Jews. Greeks and Arabs have also contributed thoroughly, and not to forget the ancient civilizations such as the Sumerians, Egyptions, and Assyrians who mastered other stuff which can't be ignored. The civilizations of South America, the ancient Chinese, etc. All nations once given the opportunity and chance will surely produce and achieve more. It has NOTHING to do with races!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ir ... d_scholars

YES it is true Sym.....but you lost it ALL after you turned up muslim, your cult stopped your clock in 700 AD, arabs, persians and muslims in general have not contributed to human kind ever since.

It caught my mind how you only acknowledge "European Jews" with regard to mathematics, but you completely ignored the fact that Iranians were the most productive and contributed more effectively in Maths!

I don't know what else to tell you other than the evidence has shown East Asians and European Jews are better than European Whites (Germans, for instance) and other ethnic groups in mathematics.

Historical discoveries do not prove that Middle Eastern people are just as good as the Chinese or Japanese in math because these two peoples could just as well have discovered zero if they experienced the same circumstances the Iranians did during their supposed discovery.

The Japanese and Chinese were an isolated people for the bulk of their history and didn't have the luxury of having contact with other civilizations as the Iranians to gain access to new technologies and ideas. Or perhaps the Iranians are more creative but less gifted in pure mathematics, similar to Albert Einstein who wasn't the best mathematician but a great thinker.

I also don't know where you think I said other ethnic groups are incapable of mathematics or are confused with averages - that is, on average, East Asians perform better in math but you can still have great mathematicians from any ethnic group.

gertrude wrote:YES it is true Sym.....but you lost it ALL after you turned up muslim, your cult stopped your clock in 700 AD, arabs, persians and muslims in general have not contributed to human kind ever since.

It was during the Islamic period which resembled the golden era for Arabs, Persians, Turks who have achieved the most and reached the peak in science and civilization, and contributed a lot to humanity.

-- Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:32 am --

capsicum wrote::lol:
Best joke of the year.
Decline of Persia started with the rise of Greece, birth of western civilization after Xerxes got his a$$ kicked 2500 years ago by a tiny army. You loser.

You seem to spend toomuch time watching hollywood movies than reading history books.
Perhaps hollywood missed the fact that Shapur captured Valerian, the Roman king.



While Romans are stil wearing skirts, the Persians used to wear what is called today pants, something the Europeans adopted and wear everyday.

Persian Greek duel ..


Despite the Greco-Persio wars, Greeks and Persians have always respected each other as great nations.
Alexander the Great payed respect to Cyrus the Great and restored his tomb's interior after he invaded Persia. Mind you, Cyrus the founder of the Persian empire introduced the first declaration of human rights.

You still fail to understand the concept of equality between nations anyways.
You insist on degrading other nations thinking you're better than them for lame reasons.
Where the hell you're from anyways! Share with us something of your heritage instead of acting big-headed.

-- Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:47 am --

event horizon wrote:

It caught my mind how you only acknowledge "European Jews" with regard to mathematics, but you completely ignored the fact that Iranians were the most productive and contributed more effectively in Maths!

I don't know what else to tell you other than the evidence has shown East Asians and European Jews are better than European Whites (Germans, for instance) and other ethnic groups in mathematics.

Historical discoveries do not prove that Middle Eastern people are just as good as the Chinese or Japanese in math because these two peoples could just as well have discovered zero if they experienced the same circumstances the Iranians did during their supposed discovery.

The Japanese and Chinese were an isolated people for the bulk of their history and didn't have the luxury of having contact with other civilizations as the Iranians to gain access to new technologies and ideas. Or perhaps the Iranians are more creative but less gifted in pure mathematics, similar to Albert Einstein who wasn't the best mathematician but a great thinker.

I also don't know where you think I said other ethnic groups are incapable of mathematics or are confused with averages - that is, on average, East Asians perform better in math but you can still have great mathematicians from any ethnic group.

Historically, Iranians contributed more to mathematics than European Jews, and yet that doesn't mean Iranians got some special genes that makes them more developed than other nations. You eventually admit that once people are given the opportunity then they'll produce more, then I wonder why do you insist that one nation is smarter than the other? Did you scan all European Jews and Japanese people to come up with this lame conclusion of yours??

I advice you to read your own words again, and tell me if you're not suffering from schizophrenia.

symmetric wrote: You seem to spend too much time watching hollywood movies than reading history books.
Perhaps hollywood missed the fact that Shapur captured Valerian, the Roman king.

You talkin about "300" right? is'nt the movie banned in Iran. so what do you know anyways? go back to school, historians, not hollywood producers, have said the world as we know it , would not be had the persians won the battle of Thermopylae, every kid in the West learns that in school . Democracies and the western world blossomed afterward because of the defeat of Xerses. Shakur has nothing to do with it, anyways I thought he was a rapper.
All races are different and excell in diffrent manners, but.....if we scaled races based on performances, brain & physical, your race would at the bottom of the ladder, today, persians are actually nowhere on human achievments. Blacks run faster than you, play music better, Indians and Chinese are richer, white and jews have the most prolific brains. We don't see olympians, Nobel prize, master creators from iran, don't we?

You eventually admit that once people are given the opportunity then they'll produce more, then I wonder why do you insist that one nation is smarter than the other?

I'm not going to re-explain myself to someone who uses fairy tales as evidence that all humans are equal.

The empirical evidence that East Asians and European Jews are better at mathematics is out there. There are numerous physiological and anatomical differences between peoples. I suggest you try starting off with looking up what fast twitch muscle fibers are and how West Africans have a greater percentage of these than other races.

No, I'm not suffering from schizophrenia, but the people on this thread who are unable to comprehend what I write might be.

I also already explained to you why your position in citing a laundry list of supposed contributions to mathematics does not actually address whether East Asians are genetically better at mathematics than other racial groups.

LOL

I love the hubris in this thread!

Hubris comes before a fall. A few people have mentioned Greece. They were indeed at one time the height of civilisation - and now are reduced to begging to be saved from bankruptcy.

Rome was for a while a strong empire. Britain had the largest land empire ever - now looks positively sheepish when the Chinese Premier comes visiting. (And let's not dwell on Portugal and Spain)

Persia was great, the Islamic empires were great. Now less so. America is on the slide and is fast becoming a Greece and a Britain.

When the Islamic empire was producing all the scientific discoveries in the world at the time - I'm sure there were small minded youths who were going round saying 'empirically, the Asiatic man is more intelligent than the uncouth pale-skinned barbarians living to the west of us - they don't wash, read etc'.

Those who are interested in reading what science has to say about abilities/differences between races, I can recommend the following books:


Why the West Rules--for Now: The Patterns of History, and What They Reveal About the Future
Ian Morris
http://www.amazon.com/Why-West-Rules-No ... 0374290024

and

Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies
Jared Diamond
http://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-Steel- ... 513&sr=1-1

(Both look into the question of whether races are inherently superior - where that canard comes from and how science debunks this myth. Facts as opposed to fantasies on blogs! )

Cheers,
Shafique

LoL, I seriously doubt you read or more probably understood anything in the second book you're recommending. But I'm glad you brought it up since that was what I had in mind when I discussed China and Japan's isolation from the rest of the world and the advantages the Middle East had in being at the center of trade routes to explain East Asia's lack of progress in comparison to some other civilizations.

I guess it doesn't get any more ironic than that (especially since you're spewing quasi triumphalist explanations for the success and lack thereof for historical peoples).

But hey, thanks for recommending a book you didn't seem to understand.

When the Islamic empire was producing all the scientific discoveries in the world at the time

Suuuure they were.

I'm sure there were small minded youths who were going round saying 'empirically, the Asiatic man is more intelligent than the uncouth pale-skinned barbarians living to the west of us - they don't wash, read etc'.

I'm sorry, do you have any comment to the overwhelming scientific evidence that there are physiological and anatomical differences between ethnic groups - including mathematical ability, brain volume, athleticism, etc?

And tell me, why would I expect people to have all the same abilities when they evolved over tens of thousands of years to unique environments? Why would people who live in the plains of Africa have the same abilities as those who live in the mountains? To me, it's logical that if endurance is more valuable to survival than explosive speed, then a people will come to inherit that trait and the ability run in short bursts of speed will be lost because it either has not value or is not used. And in evolution, if you don't use it you lose it.

But hey, I'm patient. I'll let you reply to anything I've said beyond book recommendations, herp a derp comments or brown supremacist statements.

capsicum wrote::lol:
Best joke of the year.
Decline of Persia started with the rise of Greece, birth of western civilization after Xerxes got his a$$ kicked 2500 years ago by a tiny army. You loser.

Persians were master traders especially the Zartoshis. Trade, Commerce and Architecture was (is) their forte. Unfortunately their government betrayed them.
All you need to do is visit Iran to catch a glimpse of their astounding architecture. They have structures there that could put the Taj Mahal to shame.
Business runs in their blood. If there was something you'd attach to them as genetic traits, you could always say they knew/know how to do business and trade better that anyone else.

The thing is that since so many of them have fled their own tyrannic governments, you find Persians everywhere, and unless told you'd never wouldn't associate them as Persians. More often than not this group of people are all are phenomenally well-educated,rich and successful. I wouldn't call it so much genetic as maybe cultural.
They are fascinating people with an equally fascinating history.

Misery Called Life wrote:

capsicum wrote::lol:
Best joke of the year.
Decline of Persia started with the rise of Greece, birth of western civilization after Xerxes got his a$$ kicked 2500 years ago by a tiny army. You loser.

Persians were master traders especially the Zartoshis. Trade, Commerce and Architecture was (is) their forte. Unfortunately their government betrayed them.
All you need to do is visit Iran to catch a glimpse of their astounding architecture. They have structures there that could put the Taj Mahal to shame.
Business runs in their blood. If there was something you'd attach to them as genetic traits, you could always say they knew/know how to do business and trade better that anyone else.

The thing is that since so many of them have fled their own tyrannic governments, you find Persians everywhere, and unless told you'd never wouldn't associate them as Persians. More often than not this group of people are all are phenomenally well-educated,rich and successful. I wouldn't call it so much genetic as maybe cultural.
They are fascinating people with an equally fascinating history.

Thanks a lot for sharing nice words MCL. I just want to add, its not just the Zartoshtis, its a general cultural thing for all Iranians/Persians. For instance, even the Persians in the GCC, vast majority of us are the educated ones and smart merchants, since day one we arrived here we established the first proper souqs in Dubai and other cities in the GCC. The Sheikhdoms here invited us to come over here, in order to enhance business and turn Dubai into a trade center.

The Persian community in India, since ancient times, has also maintained this legacy till today, and I'm sure everyone knows the famous merchant Tata and other famous merchants, doctors, and engineers.

----------------------------------------------------

@Capsicum

- The Persian empire has its own unique poitical system that was later on adopted by the Islamic Khilafa.

- The Persian archeticture is outstanding, like MCL mentioned there are pieces of masters in Iran that are way much impressive than the European ones.

- The Persians developed their own style of landscaping influencing different kingdoms and famous palaces in the world, such as Taj Mahal in India, and Qasr Al Hamra in Granada, Spain.

- The windtowers (Bad-gir) are the first form of an A/C system, and the Yakh-Chal are the first form of underground cooling system (fridges).

- The famous domes you see in great mosques and palaces are all Persian based.

- The Persians developed a unique irrigation system that fit their different environment, and in Iran there are ancient channels still used that purify the water coming from melted snow on salty mountains to make it suitable for drinking and irrigation.

- In North Oman, the system of Falaj (water channels) to arrange irrigation was established by Persians before the Azd tribe of Yemen arrive there.

- The pants were first made/worn by Persians.

- Algebra and Algorithim sciences were set by Persian scholars, and named after them.
Jaber ibn Hayyan (algebra), and Khavarezmi (algorithim).

- The modern numerics were also set by Khavarezmi, who also introduced the numer 0.

- The first form of ice-cream was made by Persians!

- The grammer of Arabic language, a not-easy Semite language was set by Persians and still taught to ppl.

- The first form of windmills were invented by Persians.

- Persians introduced their own traditional gymnasium known as Zoorkhaneh.

- Persians introduced their own sport, today known as Polo!

- Persians contributed to medicines a lot with great scholars such as Razi and Avicenna.

- The Persians introduced the famous melodic modes used in music, known as Maqam/Muqam/Makam.

- Persians introduced their own musical instruments, Tar & Setar (old form of guitar), Tonbak, santoor, etc.

- The Iranians/Persians during the forst 900 years of Islamic period has managed to contain Islam its invaders, such as the mongols who fell in love with the Persian culture and eventually adopted both the Persians religion, Islam and also adopted the Persian language & culture and have spread it around central asia and India. Not too far away from modern history, India still used Persian language in its courts. The Ottomans used Persian language as their language for literature and art. Arabs have borrowed a lot of Persian words and art. The modern Persian language is one of the unique languages for having this unique fusion of both Indo-European and Semite roots.

- The Persians have always mingled among different nations and cultures, and you'll find them present in all different places in the old and modern world. They have always managed to successfuly leave a special good effect and infuence.

I only mentioned few of the great achievements and contributions of the Persians/Iranians towards humanity, the list goes on and would require books to mention it all.

Sadly, all this success started to fade once the Safavids started to abuse their own mutated version of religion, a Shia sectarian regime that slaughtered the Persians to force them track a specific controlled way of life, which is the early form of the current corrupted false regime that is choking the nation. But once the Shia ideology is removed, surely Persians will rise again.

It is too lame to just degrade Persians today for not obtaining some of noble prizes, it only shows how narrow-minded you are.

Your attempt to provoke me has failed, and you only made a fool out of yourself
My sympathy is yours Capsicum.

And it is extremely arrogant for one race to express superiority against other races.
You still fail to see the main point, which is ALL races are equal, and no one is better than the other.

Again, you keep on running away from telling us where you come from.

-- Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:21 pm --

I dedicate my previous post to my good friend Melika

The West will fall one day because of economics and politics, not about whiteness of skin, size of brain, or fast or slow twitch muscles. The same has happened for other civilizations. Every group of people has had their achievements and ability to survive in their environments or they would not have survived and thrived.

Agreed Kanelli, nicely put and well said.

The overwhelming evidence displayed in this thread is that the human race has the unending capacity for adaptability. We evolve to an extent that no other does both physically and mentally. There will of course be periods during each countries evolution where financial superiority will benefit one group or another via education. Does it mean that one group is smarter than another or does it mean that at that specific point in time the financially superior group has the ability to educate, invent etc. What part does religion play in these events. It is truly fascinating but history has alot to teach us and surely by studying this we will not be doomed to make the same mistakes. But somehow by our very natures we will. I don't think that one particular group is smarter than another (taken as a group) but there are some groups who happen to have more opportunities than others and that will always be the case. How long that group can hang onto their advantage depends on so many variables that it is not even worth debating.

kanelli wrote:The West will fall one day because of economics and politics, not about whiteness of skin, size of brain, or fast or slow twitch muscles. The same has happened for other civilizations. Every group of people has had their achievements and ability to survive in their environments or they would not have survived and thrived.

Sorry Kanelli disagree about the West falling.

The big war of the world will sort that out.

Not wishing for anyone to fall or collapse, but history taught us that none was able to remain forever.

They all came and go, rise and fall. It applys on both East and West.

If people truly accept evolution then they'll agree how it's likely people evolved to a particular environment. Different environments require different needs - sometimes the evolutionary adaptations are complete opposite, as we see in West Africans who dominate the 100m and under races and East Africans who dominate the marathon races (along with other peoples who inhabited mountainous regions for thousands of years, such as Scandinavians).

It's yet another example of how PC liberalism is anti-science.

Still with Schizophrenia?

EH, I would love to be there the day your grandchild looks up at you with slanted big brown eyes, brown skin, and kinky hair. Never say Never!!!!!

I'd like to see the day when someone on DF can post an intelligent response.

Thats because no one other than yourself takes you seriously here.

desertdudeshj wrote:Thats because no one other than yourself takes you seriously here.

Well, you certainly do live up to the stereotype of certain low iq ethnic groups.

You did say you're bad at math, right?