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immortal01 wrote:I have heard abt this group called Pink Slip being run on Twitter and Linked In..helping people made redundant find jobs. You may suggest your friends to check this out

Cheers
Imm

you mean this one ( http://www.linkedin.com/pub/pink-slip/14/551/40b )? this could be entertaining to distressed people

anyway, i can't find what you're referring.

gertrude wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

gertrude wrote:This thread is about people who leave Dubai, anyways ....I looked it up, I cannot find any info on Mr Trutch. Never heard of him. The info on DF is not relevant because it s not supported by any links. So if you have the link on the court case in the UK, please drop it here.

I'm a bit confused. What court case in the UK?

Gertrude, much of what has happened never reached the press or the media. That would only have done more damage to Dubai. It's sad that you think that Dubai will turn to dust.

I said that it won't come back as strong as it was, but it will come back, but it is going to take a huge correction in order for it to come back to a level that it will be a destination - tourism and/or business. To what level, I don't know. If I could tell you that, I wouldn't be sitting here on DF; I'd be off making money from my power to foresee the future!!!

Corrections? it ll never happen.
Too many scary news already, why take the risk and be jailed for a kiss, wearing a bikini or for having pain killers or a beer. Let's face it, Dubai is as liberal as Saudi. Business? before trying to lure more investors start compensating those who lost their downpayments on the properties that will never be built. Blaming expats CEO's won't do the trick. Steve Trutch, yes he was convicted in the UK, but is an old case (1993), out of the context.

New or old it was the principal, anyways you are surely one who needs to stay away from Dubai because you are obviously against the place.

gertrude wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

gertrude wrote:This thread is about people who leave Dubai, anyways ....I looked it up, I cannot find any info on Mr Trutch. Never heard of him. The info on DF is not relevant because it s not supported by any links. So if you have the link on the court case in the UK, please drop it here.

I'm a bit confused. What court case in the UK?

Gertrude, much of what has happened never reached the press or the media. That would only have done more damage to Dubai. It's sad that you think that Dubai will turn to dust.

I said that it won't come back as strong as it was, but it will come back, but it is going to take a huge correction in order for it to come back to a level that it will be a destination - tourism and/or business. To what level, I don't know. If I could tell you that, I wouldn't be sitting here on DF; I'd be off making money from my power to foresee the future!!!

Corrections? it ll never happen.
Too many scary news already, why take the risk and be jailed for a kiss, wearing a bikini or for having pain killers or a beer. Let's face it, Dubai is as liberal as Saudi. Business? before trying to lure more investors start compensating those who lost their downpayments on the properties that will never be built. Blaming expats CEO's won't do the trick. Steve Trutch, yes he was convicted in the UK, but is an old case (1993), out of the context.

Gertrude, is it safe to say that you don't live in Dubai, or the UAE for that matter, since you get your information from the news.

I have yet to hear about anyone being arrested for wearing a bikini, unless of course, they were walking around the mall in one, which in any case, would be totally inappropriate anywhere. Bikinis and swimsuits belong on a beach or at a pool.

As for people losing their downpayments on properties that will never be built, who exactly should compensate them? The developers who went belly-up because of corruption and embezzlement are responsible. There still exists developers who are building and investors will see their properties become a reality.

Who said that all those responsible for the financial problems were expat CEOs? There are many locals who have been arrested for embezzlement and corruption.

Don't compare Dubai to Saudi Arabia. I drive my own car in Dubai. Men and women work together, they are not segregated. I am Muslim, but it is not mandated that I cover myself. Dubai has done alot to accommodate Westerners, and in the process, local culture has been diluted.

As Sage suggested, you should stay away from Dubai. It definitely is not the place for you.

Bora Bora wrote:

gertrude wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

gertrude wrote:This thread is about people who leave Dubai, anyways ....I looked it up, I cannot find any info on Mr Trutch. Never heard of him. The info on DF is not relevant because it s not supported by any links. So if you have the link on the court case in the UK, please drop it here.

I'm a bit confused. What court case in the UK?

Gertrude, much of what has happened never reached the press or the media. That would only have done more damage to Dubai. It's sad that you think that Dubai will turn to dust.

I said that it won't come back as strong as it was, but it will come back, but it is going to take a huge correction in order for it to come back to a level that it will be a destination - tourism and/or business. To what level, I don't know. If I could tell you that, I wouldn't be sitting here on DF; I'd be off making money from my power to foresee the future!!!

Corrections? it ll never happen.
Too many scary news already, why take the risk and be jailed for a kiss, wearing a bikini or for having pain killers or a beer. Let's face it, Dubai is as liberal as Saudi. Business? before trying to lure more investors start compensating those who lost their downpayments on the properties that will never be built. Blaming expats CEO's won't do the trick. Steve Trutch, yes he was convicted in the UK, but is an old case (1993), out of the context.

Gertrude, is it safe to say that you don't live in Dubai, or the UAE for that matter, since you get your information from the news.

I have yet to hear about anyone being arrested for wearing a bikini, unless of course, they were walking around the mall in one, which in any case, would be totally inappropriate anywhere. Bikinis and swimsuits belong on a beach or at a pool.

As for people losing their downpayments on properties that will never be built, who exactly should compensate them? The developers who went belly-up because of corruption and embezzlement are responsible. There still exists developers who are building and investors will see their properties become a reality.

Who said that all those responsible for the financial problems were expat CEOs? There are many locals who have been arrested for embezzlement and corruption.

Don't compare Dubai to Saudi Arabia. I drive my own car in Dubai. Men and women work together, they are not segregated. I am Muslim, but it is not mandated that I cover myself. Dubai has done alot to accommodate Westerners, and in the process, local culture has been diluted.

As Sage suggested, you should stay away from Dubai. It definitely is not the place for you.

BB....I live in Dubai Marina and I did not read it in the news, in 2007 I bought a 2 bed appartment in sport city, %30 down, AED400,000. with delivery in 2008. They have not started anything yet. Last month I logged a complain at RERA, they do nothing, if I go to court, I have to surrender my passport, and if I dont pay the installments I ll go to jail. It s a scam, I am not the only one, there is nothing you can do, the justice system and the local media is biased, you can't win. It s a fraud endorsed by the authorities.
Yes I will stay away from Dubai, like hundreds of thousands more, and in the end when the truth comes out, Dubai will return to the dust.
Sage is only one of these guys to be happy to carry Emirati's luggage for free. I guess after this I ll be banned from DF too!

gertrude wrote:I bought a 2 bed appartment in sport city, %30 down, AED400,000. with delivery in 2008. They have not started anything yet.

It's very true statement. My friend "invested" a lot of money in the sand ("future flat') 3 years ago with "promise" to build it in 2 years but it hasn't even started yet.
With such confidence to contractor who will buy a flat on the initial stage of constraction? But witout money and limited credit resourses how contractor can finish a biulding or start new one. It's a closed circle.
In such condition recovery of real estate is hardly possible but it used to be the main driver of Dubai's economy.

Sage is only one of these guys to be happy to carry Emirati's luggage for free. I guess after this I ll be banned from DF too!

Say whatever you want, but stay away from Dubai, it's not for you.

@gertrude.

I am sorry to hear of your misfortune. I guess you are tied to Dubai merely for the fact that you have purchased something that doesn't exist. I'm sure there are a lot of expats who still stay in Dubai for the same reason. Gertrude, you bought into the dream, which became a nightmare for many. If not for the property, I guess you, and many others would have left.

What I never got was how people ran out to buy "off plan". Why would someone buy something that actually doesn't exist? If you recall when the first few freehold properties went up for sale, people, the majority being locals as they had "inside" purchase advantages, were snatching up 10 to 20 "properties" and flipping them two days later at double the purchase price. The second buyer them flipped them within a matter of days for again double the price. All that flipping made people quite a pretty penny. It went on for sometime until the govt put a law in place requiring first time ownership for a certain period of time before selling.

Most people who purchased did so as an investment. Who could ever dream of retiring in Dubai when you factor in "could you actually afford to retire in Dubai"? That could only be possible for people who have some serious money. I doubt the "average" person, or middle class person, could survive very long living in retirement here.

I can see why you are bitter, but you did take a gamble - you bought something that did not exist. Its like playing cards, you bet against the hand that you can't see. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

BB, in the West, selling something that does not exist is called a fraud. In Dubai it is endorsed and investors have 2 choices, stay away and be quiet as Sage recommends, or protest and go to jail. And if it was gambling, since when is it allowed in one of the most strict muslim country? As the words are getting out, I doubt much investors will put their money in Dubai.
Also there is a severe deception here, it is not possible to retire in Dubai, whether you have money or not. Temporary residency is allowed either under a work visa, 60 years old max, or 6 mo / year for real estate owners. In my contract, residency was offered, but the law changed after I signed.....

gertrude wrote:BB, in the West, selling something that does not exist is called a fraud. In Dubai it is endorsed and investors have 2 choices, stay away and be quiet as Sage recommends, or protest and go to jail. And if it was gambling, since when is it allowed in one of the most strict muslim country? As the words are getting out, I doubt much investors will put their money in Dubai.
Also there is a severe deception here, it is not possible to retire in Dubai, whether you have money or not. Temporary residency is allowed either under a work visa, 60 years old max, or 6 mo / year for real estate owners. In my contract, residency was offered, but the law changed after I signed.....

I used gambling as an anology Gertrude. So if buying wasn't for retirement, then it was for profit. A lot of people made money, and a lot of people lost money. Fortunately I don't sit on either side of the fence.

I am from the US Gertrude and knowing how things do work, it was one of the reasons that kept us from buying in Dubai. We asked ourselves a lot of "what ifs" and seeing as how there was not answer to most of them, we decided not to purchase. If you know that selling something that doesn't exist is fraud, then why did you buy?? You thought you saw an opportunity and jumped on it, as did many. If things hadn't gone belly up I'm sure you would be a happy camper counting your profit rather than your lose.

Bora Bora wrote:Most people who purchased did so as an investment. Who could ever dream of retiring in Dubai when you factor in "could you actually afford to retire in Dubai"? That could only be possible for people who have some serious money. I doubt the "average" person, or middle class person, could survive very long living in retirement here.

I ain't Gertrude but I partly agree and partly disagree with you.
I agree that buying something off-plan is some sort of gambling but I disagree that such a gambler is always an "investor".

You forgot that most people came to Dubai from different backwaters (not Europe or US) and it isn't a surprise that they wanted to stay here forever. When you are young you don't think about pension a lot.
You know that having 12-15K dirhams salary it's hardly possible to take a credit in bank for property.

For these people contractors developed special off-plan sceme: no downpayment at all and then paying every month tp reach 30% during the stage of constraction . Such way the contractor was trying to avoid special deposit accounts that was designated by government only for buying constraction materials.

So a lot of people was affected and it's necessary to recover the cinfidence.

Red Chief wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Most people who purchased did so as an investment. Who could ever dream of retiring in Dubai when you factor in "could you actually afford to retire in Dubai"? That could only be possible for people who have some serious money. I doubt the "average" person, or middle class person, could survive very long living in retirement here.

I ain't Gertrude but I partly agree and partly disagree with you.
I agree that buying something off-plan is some sort of gambling but I disagree that such a gambler is always an "investor".

You forgot that most people came to Dubai from different backwaters (not Europe or US) and it isn't a surprise that they wanted to stay here forever. When you are young you don't think about pension a lot.
You know that having 12-15K dirhams salary it's hardly possible to take a credit in bank for property.

For these people contractors developed special off-plan sceme: no downpayment at all and then paying every month tp reach 30% during the stage of constraction . Such way the contractor was trying to avoid special deposit accounts that was designated by government only for buying constraction materials.

So a lot of people was affected and it's necessary to recover the cinfidence.

On the face of it, the MAJORITY of those who bought were looking at the purchase as an investment. I can't imagine that there were that many who were from the "backwaters" as you put it, would consider it a place to retire unless they were financially capable of doing so. Possibly many may have looked at the purchase as a "second home", not a permanent home.

As the real estate market continually became inflated most were looking at the profit that they were going to see on this "investment". I know someone who got in at the bottom and purchased 3 properties on the Palm, each running about AED 5 Mil. Well he had plenty of opportunity to sell these properties at a lovely profit as he got offers up to AED19 Mil. each. Well wifey said: don't accept 19Mil we can get more. She wasn't happy with a profit of AED42 Mil, she wanted more. That was like a USD10 Mil windfall. Well guess what? They held on, the market crashed, and they are now renting them out just to cover the mortgage payments. This is where greed got her. They will never ever see an offer even close to the AED19 Mil that wasn't enough for her.

I also had a friend who was purchasing off-plan. He asked me to take a look at the contract. Well he handed me a one inch thick maual!! Read the manual/contract and had many many questions. What I told him was that it boiled down to the fact that the developer was free and clear of any and all liability. Where there was liability it fell to the purchaser. I told him that I would never sign such a document. We went to the office of the developer and spoke to the "salesman". When I asked my questions regarding the contract, I got one of two answers: (1) I'll have to get back to you on that; or (2) I don't understand. What I gathered is that many people hardly read the contracts or failed to understand them.

He-He,
I ain't going to fight but I have another experience. On the other hand majority of Dubai's population IS from the backwater according to statistics. So my statement is at least highly probable. Moreover I know a few people who had sold their houses in different STANS and then bought in Dubai.
Secondly buying a flat insted of renting it looked rather attractive because as a rule puchasing price was equal 10 years of rents. It could have been rather short term investment for family in their 30s. So I don't quite understand your point about retirement.
I agree that 2-3 years ago off-plan was crazy but for another reason than you gave. The crisis on the US real estate had been continuing for a few years. Why somebody thought that Dubai was a quet harbour I didn't understand at that time.

In conclusion it doesn't matter who lost money "investors" or "office plankton" there is no confidence after that neithter from expats nor from foreigner.

Ooops it sounds exactly the same as in my previous post. I forgot to stop the conversation in time before getting Borring.

I'm done.

Look basically there are do's and don'ts when buying off plan. Safest bet is to stick to a master developer. I also bought in Sports City, but a development from Sport City itself, yes the thing is delayed but at least it will be finished. Building is 75% complete.

Now the issue I'm having with them at the moment is, that according to contracts and RERA, for every quarter there is a delay, they are supposed to compensate you! Which they deny, but it is pretty standard, so I'm obviously looking into it.

Anyway cheers for hijacking the thread!

One of my best mates left this morning - so sad

Red Chief wrote:He-He,
I ain't going to fight but I have another experience. On the other hand majority of Dubai's population IS from the backwater according to statistics. So my statement is at least highly probable. Moreover I know a few people who had sold their houses in different STANS and then bought in Dubai.
Secondly buying a flat insted of renting it looked rather attractive because as a rule puchasing price was equal 10 years of rents. It could have been rather short term investment for family in their 30s. So I don't quite understand your point about retirement.
I agree that 2-3 years ago off-plan was crazy but for another reason than you gave. The crisis on the US real estate had been continuing for a few years. Why somebody thought that Dubai was a quet harbour I didn't understand at that time.

In conclusion it doesn't matter who lost money "investors" or "office plankton" there is no confidence after that neithter from expats nor from foreigner.

Ooops it sounds exactly the same as in my previous post. I forgot to stop the conversation in time before getting Borring.

I'm done.

When you say the majority of the population is from the "backwater"? Where the hell is the backwater? And what are the different STANS?

And people didn't look at what was happening in the US, all they saw was money, money, money in Dubai and went on the assurances that Dubai was solid.

Chocoholic wrote:Look basically there are do's and don'ts when buying off plan. Safest bet is to stick to a master developer. I also bought in Sports City, but a development from Sport City itself, yes the thing is delayed but at least it will be finished. Building is 75% complete.

Now the issue I'm having with them at the moment is, that according to contracts and RERA, for every quarter there is a delay, they are supposed to compensate you! Which they deny, but it is pretty standard, so I'm obviously looking into it.

Anyway cheers for hijacking the thread!

One of my best mates left this morning - so sad

Oh, sorry Chocs for the hijacking. I guess it's one of those
it's OK for me to do, but don't you".

Oh, here's a tissue hon.




Have a good weep.

^^^^^^^^^^^LMAO!!! Actually I thought it was pretty good myself!!!

Chocoholic wrote:Look basically there are do's and don'ts when buying off plan. Safest bet is to stick to a master developer. I also bought in Sports City, but a development from Sport City itself, yes the thing is delayed but at least it will be finished. Building is 75% complete.

What does it mean? Did you go to a fortune-teller recently?
As for developer you could have been lucky or unlucky, that's it.

He-he, Bora, Chocks looks like a representative of that middle class, whom I was talking about as a buyer to live, not "the pure investor".

As far as I understand delay has been for at least 1,5 years and the building is not finnished and Chocks has rented a flat for the time of promised construction plus delay.

Hope such a gambling worths the cost of rent and nerves.

back on topic please peeps

Red Chief wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:Look basically there are do's and don'ts when buying off plan. Safest bet is to stick to a master developer. I also bought in Sports City, but a development from Sport City itself, yes the thing is delayed but at least it will be finished. Building is 75% complete.

As for developer you could have been lucky or unlucky, that's it.

That pretty much sums it up.

FFS! Of course it's a gamble, everything in life is a gamble.

And no RC, with master developers - they HAVE to finish the project, delayed or not, because their developments are normally part of the infrastructure of the project as a whole.

And no I have not been having to fork out for somewhere else in the mean time, but as of the beginning of next year, yes I will be.

Chocoholic wrote:And no RC, with master developers - they HAVE to finish the project, delayed or not, because their developments are normally part of the infrastructure of the project as a whole.

He He. How did you know that the project was going to start as a whole? My acquaintance had deal with a MASTER developer too in the plot nearby but there has been no changes with that enormous sandpit for 2 years.

Ok, believe in whatever you want. My congratulation if one day your property will have been completed and you will have your piece of life.

Only one question. Why did you choose off-plan insted of puchasing built property in credit?

Because at the time, it was a better deal and who could have predicted what would happen - nobody could do that.

Which developer is your friend with?

Been chatting to a quite a few people in real estate recently and the general feeling seems to show that as projects near completion, they are pretty easy to off-load, the market is still quite fluid for completed or nearly completed properties.

With mine, it's fine Sport City keep me updated, I've been to see the site and it's progressing pretty quickly now, so at this stage I'm not too concerned about it.