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shafique · Nov 18, 2010

Deja vu. Again.

Still don't understand why defining the term 'feral underclass' is racist though.

The erosion of British values has more to fear from the growing feral underclass (single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked etc) - than they have of the descendants of non-white immigrants. I mean most of the non-whites will be 4th or 5th generation by then and there will be a large 'brown' contingent of mixed race!

Just my HO though - happy to hear your views.

Cheers,
Shafique

rudeboy · Nov 19, 2010

seriously who cares about UK??

its a bloody island which has a thing for the french (herve

), the germans, and the spanish. And whenever the football "hooligans" of UK travel to Italy or Turkey, one or two of them will always get a knife as a souvenir

The only thing that UK has ever produced is nice fish and chips, donnar kebab and Paul Gascogine!

I guess next we will hear UK people go on oh we are in the minority, there is only a few 100,000s of us left now and the rest are all expatriates! WAIT A MINIUTE! Isn t that what GCC locals say most of the time :S

drewpeacock · Nov 19, 2010

We thought you had gone never to return?

More comebacks than err mmm whi did I call you?

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

shafique wrote:Deja vu. Again.

Still don't understand why defining the term 'feral underclass' is racist though.

Cheers,
Shafique

You didn't define it Shaf, you used it, read my post again.

Dillon wrote:Your efforts as a cunning linguist are diminishing your credibility, you are selective in what you choose to respond to, and as usual, have taken the discussion off topic and on to your own preferred theoretical scenarios.

The OP article was about British Whites and the Immigrant Population and not British Non-Whites as you would like to think, The racist comment of ‘single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked’ was posted by you, not a right wing publication.

Hole, dig, stop? too late

Bethsmum · Nov 19, 2010

rudeboy wrote:seriously who cares about UK??

its a bloody island which has a thing for the french (herve ), the germans, and the spanish. And whenever the football "hooligans" of UK travel to Italy or Turkey, one or two of them will always get a knife as a souvenir

The only thing that UK has ever produced is nice fish and chips, donnar kebab and Paul Gascogine!

I guess next we will hear UK people go on oh we are in the minority, there is only a few 100,000s of us left now and the rest are all expatriates! WAIT A MINIUTE! Isn t that what GCC locals say most of the time :S

I would like to dispute a few things here! Herve? er yes i'll give you that one. The germans? no way, they bombed our chip shop. The Spanish, nooo, too foreign for us Brits!
We don't have football hooligans anymore, we are all well behaved.
Paul Gasgoine? There's a warrant out for his arrest, he didn't turn up for Court to be sentenced for being four times over the legal limit to drive, he's a no hoper. Give me Becks any day, but I have to admit, he'd be perfect with a French accent.

-- Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:20 am --

Shaf, tut, tut.

the growing feral underclass (single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked etc)

That is the racist bit!

I was just reading in the paper about one of my favourites, Abu Hamza, the one we couldn't take his UK citizenship from because having lost his Egyptian one, would have left him stateless. He's just had the taps replaced in his cell to make it easier for him while his wife lives in a Council house with 8 children, claiming benefits and the house is being renovated at a major cost to the UK taxpayer. Hopefully she will have to move to something more suitable when the Universal Credit is brought in by Dave and her housing benefit is capped at £500.00 per week.
And your favouite from Xfactor Wagner, another foreigner, is claiming incapacity benefit as unable to work!
Bloody hell!

event horizon · Nov 19, 2010

Sorry Bora, didn't understand your post at all, maybe it was chopped up somewhere and I'm missing a huge portion.

Anyways, who's declaring war against America when they immigrate to America?

Illegal aliens, I have mixed feelings about, but definitely would feel better if there weren't the problems associated with illegal aliens that I think the aliens have brought on themselves.

It also doesn't help that America has its own fair share of loons who want to call anyone a racist just because you're against illegal immigration and the problems that stem from having over twenty million illegal immigrants in your country (and again, the problem isn't simply the numbers but what the illegals do when they get here).

Ambassador · Nov 19, 2010

event horizon wrote:(and again, the problem isn't simply the numbers but what the illegals do when they get here[America]).

What do they do?

shafique · Nov 19, 2010

Bethsmum wrote:Shaf, tut, tut.

the growing feral underclass (single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked etc)

That is the racist bit!

That's the definition bit too - I was making the point that there is a growing under-class of white Brits that is termed 'feral underclass' whose characteristics include being welfare layabouts. As we are discussing a projection that white Brits will equal the non 'white Brits' in over half a century, I was making the point that this sub-section of the white community posed a greater threat to Britishness than descendants of non-white immigrants.

The non-white Brit layabouts aren't included in the term 'feral underclass' but do also exist, but they don't form part of the group the OP called 'white Brits'.

Here's a less flattering description of this sub-strata of society according to the right wing press:

Welcome to Britain, land of the rising scum.... We've cornered the market on welfare layabouts, drug addicts and feral gangs

..
Then again, they could just have been scum.

You know what? I’ve just thought about it again. I’m going with scum. Sorry, but there’s no other word for it.
For all I know, those children could have grown up to become brain-surgeons.
My guess, though, is that they’re both living on benefits in some scruffy council garret, halfway up a burned-out tower block, surrounded by raggedy children who look pretty much like they used to on their jolly outing to Blackpool.

Only the fake designer labels have changed.

We’re now on to second- and third-generation scum, sustained by a patronising and non-judgmental welfare juggernaut. We’ve always had what sociologists prefer to call an underclass. But not on this scale and never so visible.
...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... scum-.html

Was I wrong to define the feral underclass as white?

PS - I'm rooting for Wagner - he's so bad he's good. My wife is sooo annoyed he keeps getting voted through. (I couldn't stand Aiden, so I was glad he was booted off last week)

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

shafique wrote:
Bethsmum wrote:Shaf, tut, tut.

the growing feral underclass (single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked etc)

That is the racist bit!

That's the definition bit too...

Cheers,
Shafique

So now you admit again to making the racist statement? you in fact admitted earlier, then went into denial when you hid behing the skirts of Right Wing Publications, then changed your mind again and claimed you were defining 'feral underclass' for someone?

Come on Shaf, don't you think it's now time to come clean like your pal Benwj did, at least he had the maturity to admit to the racist statement;

benwj wrote:
Dillon wrote:[And while it appears some forum members find racist comment ‘classic’ I take exception to your comment of ‘single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked etc)’ surely you don’t believe this to be an exclusively ‘White’ profession?

I was going to say that luckily we are in dubai where there are no feral underclass to cry discrimination, but obvioulsy I was wrong.

Shaf's comment may have been racist, which is why I didn't include the reference to whites, but i agree that this is a major problem that the UK needs to deal with.

Dillon wrote:You didn't define it Shaf, you used it, read my post again.

Dillon wrote:Your efforts as a cunning linguist are diminishing your credibility, you are selective in what you choose to respond to, and as usual, have taken the discussion off topic and on to your own preferred theoretical scenarios.

The OP article was about British Whites and the Immigrant Population and not British Non-Whites as you would like to think, The racist comment of ‘single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked’ was posted by you, not a right wing publication.

Hole, dig, stop? too late!

Dubai Knight · Nov 19, 2010

X Factor?

Novocaine for the masses?

There is dumbing down...and there is entertainment for cretins!

:roll:

Knight

shafique · Nov 19, 2010

X-factor - our family's guilty pleasure!!

(Fortunately, we always watch a recorded version, so we fast forward most of the show and only watch about 20% of the show...)

Dillon - I'm still at a loss how defining the term feral underclass as I did is racist.

shafique wrote:The erosion of British values has more to fear from the growing feral underclass (single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked etc) - than they have of the descendants of non-white immigrants. I mean most of the non-whites will be 4th or 5th generation by then and there will be a large 'brown' contingent of mixed race!

Just my HO though - happy to hear your views.

Term used: FERAL UNDERCLASS
Context used: erosion of British values because 'white British' people may be in a minority in 56 years time.
Defintion of term: "single parents, out of work, benefit-sponging whites who don't know anyone who have ever worked etc"

Is the issue that :
1. The Feral underclass doesn't exist in the White community?
2. It is wrong to call attention to the skin colour of this section of the white community?
3. One shouldn't refer to 'White Brits' even though it is in the OP and thread title (and not to mention the Sun article)
4. One should qualify any reference to the feral underclass by stating that there also exist other groups who are non-white (and are labelled in similar/different/ad-hoc ways)?

Discuss. :alien:

Do I look bothered? :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

Well you obviously are bothered Shafique, otherwise you wouldn’t keep regurgitating all this meaningless dross, just re-read my last post for clarification of the subject matter and your racist remark!

Regards

shafique · Nov 19, 2010

Re-read it, still can't see why a definition of feral underclass irks you so.

Perhaps I should be bovvered? Alas.. I'm not.

But coming back to the OP - who knows what the actual demographics will be like in 56 years time (or 80 years time) and what the social stratification of the 'white British' population and general British population will be?

I still maintain that the greater threat to Britishness comes from within the poorer 'feral underclass' white families rather than other groups (immigrant or otherwise). That's my opinion, and if that makes me a racist in your eyes, so be it.

Have we flogged this particular dead horse enough, or do we need to go another few rounds?

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

Well I see you’re still bothered by it Shafique, The OP is still White British v Immigrants, not Non-White or General population, Immigrants, I wonder is it this that really irks you and the reason you keep trying to change it?

Mine hasn’t changed, and it’s not likely to, it’s still there if you’d like another go at it?

:roll:

Dubai Knight · Nov 19, 2010

Personally, I blame the Welsh!

:lol:

Knight

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

Hi DK welcome back! talking about the Welsh...

An English visitor to a small Welsh village was approached by one of the deacons of the local chapel who asked him whether he would like to attend their chapel on the following Sunday.
"Wouldn't that be a little pointless?" replied the Englishman. "After all, your services are held in Welsh and I don't understand the language."
"Ah yes," said the deacon, "but the collection is in English." :lol:

Some sheep farmers in mid-Wales have formed a society of teetotalers.
There is a clause in the rules that permits the use of alcohol at sheep-dipping time.

One member keeps a sheep at home which he dips every day. :shock:

shafique · Nov 19, 2010

Dillon wrote:Well I see you’re still bothered by it Shafique, The OP is still White British v Immigrants, not Non-White or General population, Immigrants, I wonder is it this that really irks you and the reason you keep trying to change it?

Mine hasn’t changed, and it’s not likely to, it’s still there if you’d like another go at it?

Yep, happy to go another round.

Ok - we're reading the Sun report differently - it was saying that 'White British' people would be in a minority in 2066 if the professor's assumptions held.

I couldn't see in the report where he said the non 'White British' would not not be British who were non-White or would be descendants of white immigrants. It did not say 'British citizens' or 'British Born' - but 'White British'. A child of a Polish immigrant, born and raised in Britain, I would contend would be classed as a 'White British' person in 56 years time.

In fact the article contrasts the situation with the US - where it makes a distinction between White Americans and others, and excludes Hispanics in the count of White Americans. It is about race.

But be that as it may - let's agree the group will include "white immigrants, non-white immigrants or non-white Britons", I still make my point that the growing feral underclass of white British population is the greater threat to Britishness.

Over 56 years the non 'white British' population will be even more integrated than they are now - the Michael Portillos, Dianne Abbots etc will be as British as each other, even though only one of them will be termed 'White British'. I would consider Michael Portillo to be a typically 'white British' person even though he is the son of an immigrant.

At the end of the day, I'm not the one that used the term 'White British' first in this thread.

But I do blame the welsh as well. :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

Shaf, go back and read my earlier posts and stop trying to disguise the issue, it REALLY isn't working!

shafique · Nov 19, 2010

I'm really not disguising the issue - I do believe I'm addressing the point made in the OP about White Britons and White Americans becoming minorities in the UK and US - with it occurring sooner there than here.

Over there, all the Whites are immigrants. I think that fact strengthens my reading of what he meant by 'White British' and therefore the non-'White British'.

Cheers,
Shafique

-- Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:18 pm --

This is what the Sun says the Prof said:

"Were the assumptions to hold, the 'white British' population of Britain would become the minority after about 2066. It's a milestone that would be passed much earlier in younger age-groups."

He added: "The US, by comparison, is now about 65 per cent white (non-Hispanic) and that group is projected to fall to 50 per cent by 2045."

Seems to be talking about race to me.

Cheers,
Shafique

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

shafique wrote:I'm really not disguising the issue
Cheers,
Shafique

Agreed you're failing miserably, read my earlier post!

shafique · Nov 19, 2010

Ok - you can have the last word - I'll concede that you think you're right.

Cheers,
Shafique

benwj · Nov 19, 2010

Dillon wrote:Come on Shaf, don't you think it's now time to come clean like your pal Benwj did, at least he had the maturity to admit to the racist statement

Shaf referred to a certain element of the community as feral underclass.
He also pointed out that they happen to be white.
You then jumped down his throat and accussed him of being racist.
I simply acknowledged that he did indeed refer to someone by way of the colour of their skin/race.
I happen to be white, but I recognised that he wasn't referring to all white people, or me (I am not feral underclass... by shaf's definition at least).
If you are feral underclass and were offended , then I can only suggest that you get up off your arse and get a job,
If you are not feral underclass, stop using the term racist against people who state facts.

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

This isn’t about having the last word Shaf, it’s about accepting the responsibility for statements one makes on a public forum, what you said that I took exception to is well documented, it was an offensive and racist remark and no amount of camouflage you or your new found lapdog(s) wish to post over the statement will ever change my mind.

desertdudeshj · Nov 19, 2010

Shaf maybe if you use bold words maybe then Dillon will get it, perhaps ?

benwj · Nov 19, 2010

Dillon wrote:This isn’t about having the last word Shaf, it’s about accepting the responsibility for statements one makes on a public forum, what you said that I took exception to is well documented, it was an offensive and racist remark and no amount of camouflage you or your new found lapdog wish to post
over the statement will ever change my mind.

Bigot: "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own".

Dillon · Nov 19, 2010

Yap yap, yap yap yap grrrrrrrrr yap yap!

:lol:

event horizon · Nov 20, 2010

Best to ignore the troll.

Seriously, he's too dumb for conversation:

I don't think you can call someone like shafique an actual troll. Trolling is a deliberate attempt to stifle or disrupt discussion - kind of how Desert throws his fits in the Politics forum whenever someone posts a topic he doesn't like, that's trolling.

For shafique's part, and as someone who knows how shafique has behaved on the other forum with complaints coming from all the members who posted in the sub-forum against him, it's hard to believe that anyone could deliberately be that dumb.

To me, it seems like shafique's 'denseness' is definitely something that was ingrained in him from early on and that he has little control over now.

And really, it isn't just non-Muslims who have complained about his posting style. Anyone who disagrees with him notices that he's very far from rational or capable of understanding the position of his opponents, often deliberately taking their arguments out of context and saying, 'I'm glad you agree with me, blah blah blah'.

As I said before, I encourage anyone to challenge him on an issue in the politics forum just to witness first hand what a loon this guy is. I'm not trying to make excuses, but perhaps part of the problem is that shafique is a numbers person, and numbers people don't know how to communicate very well.

It was a mistake to make this person a mod. I would actually say that Desert has a slightly higher IQ than shafique, it's just that Desert is too mentally weak to deal with people on an online forum in a mature manner.

So really, we have two active mods that should never have been made mods. But at least you can only go up after hitting rock bottom.

bingo

dubai-chat/the-mind-troll-t44069-15.html#p353508

As far as a history of posting racist remarks, you decide:

dubai-politics-talk/child-witches-denounced-african-pastors-t43911-15.html#p352619

desertdudeshj · Nov 20, 2010

event horizon wrote:Best to ignore the troll.

Best advice yet, seems to be working very well with you in the politics forum.

benwj · Nov 20, 2010

event horizon wrote:Best to ignore the troll.

Yap yap, yap yap yap grrrrrrrrr yap yap!

:lol:

event horizon · Nov 20, 2010

benwj wrote:
event horizon wrote:Best to ignore the troll.

Yap yap, yap yap yap grrrrrrrrr yap yap!

Young grasshopper, you may yet learn something one day if you ever decide to think for yourself.

You accused Dillon of playing the race card in this thread after he took issue with a silly remark another member made about Whites after Dillon said the member's comments were racist.

Indeed, you sided with the other member as just quoting the 'facts' when the member has quite an extensive history of playing the race card himself - often accusing other members whose views are not within the bounds of political correctness of being racists or 'Islamophobes'.

Now, if you scroll back up, you'll see that my second link is to a thread where our loon member tried using the race card, just as Jesse 'Hymietown' Jackson often does, against another member but ended up taking it on the chin after his own comments regarding whites were re-posted and he was forced to obfuscate and plead that he wasn't a racist because he has white friends (LoL!).

In reality, on this forum, if any one is a racist, it would be the member you're now high fiving. But hey, it wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that this member is also this forum's biggest hypocrite.

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