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http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ja ... -abu-dhabi

I wonder how long it will be until this whole saga starts to harm the UAE financially.

financially ? you mean they 'll stop buying our oil or investing or traveling here ? the way I see it is that regardless of the so called bad publicity ppl are still piling up waiting in line to come in , countries seeking our relation more than ever before, yaa I wonder too when this will harm us financially!.

you and the other attackers can always dream and try, but as you and the UK media can see "we are untouchable" so suck it up .

ohh yaa you have also missed the torture of the Iraqis and afgani ppl by the US and UK soldiers. it has been for a long time and did not " harm the financial", why would it harm us... just thought of point you to the article since you are blind

uaekid wrote:financially ? you mean they 'll stop buying our oil or investing or traveling here ? the way I see it is that regardless of the so called bad publicity ppl are still piling up waiting in line to come in , countries seeking our relation more than ever before, yaa I wonder too when this will harm us financially!.

you and the other attackers can always dream and try, but as you and the UK media can see "we are untouchable" so suck it up .

answers.

Yes and yes.

God you're boring, and ill-informed.

The Abu Ghraib scandal affected both the UK and USA massively financially, if only because the incidents once reported, created a groundswell of support for muslim extremist groups in Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan. The UK and the USA have spent billions fighting the poorly named "War on Terror".

Like it or not, Sheikh Eisa is now a stain on your country.

Yea it kinda makes sense, in globalized economies any bad publicity can have economic effects. That's how sensitive most countries are.

For instance when Warren Buffet purchased a highly profitable stake in Petro China there was a huge outcry in America as well as amongst his investors asking him to get rid of it owing to China's poor human rights record. Eventually in haste he did sell of the entire stake. The genius that he is, he made a profit while doing so, so it dies out. But it's pretty well known that even he did bow down to pressure then.

Take a look at India - Australia an the racial tensions between the two countries. You know something as trivial as 3 ugly, loser Indian males not being granted entry into a Oz nightclub was perceived by the Indian media as racism. Now it's another matter that if you are not dressed appropriately, weather ur white, black,yellow, green or blue they will not grant u entry into any club. The point is the sensationalist Indian media reported it, the public lapped it up and it's all contributed to giving the Ozzies a bad name. Latest stats, a 50% drop in student visa applications. And the education business there is worth something like 15 billion annually.

Bottom line UAE Kid, no country in this day and age can take bad publicity for granted. A little bad publicity can easily spiral out of control.

Misery Called Life wrote:Y

Take a look at India - Australia an the racial tensions between the two countries. You know something as trivial as 3 ugly, loser Indian males not being granted entry into a Oz nightclub was perceived by the Indian media as racism. Now it's another matter that if you are not dressed appropriately, weather ur white, black,yellow, green or blue they will not grant u entry into any club. The point is the sensationalist Indian media reported it, the public lapped it up and it's all contributed to giving the Ozzies a bad name. Latest stats, a 50% drop in student visa applications. And the education business there is worth something like 15 billion annually.
.

Very misleading statement. The drop in Indian visa applications has more to do with numerous murders/stabbings of Indian students, and cases where they were were burnt by hooligans.

The Indian outcry has little to do with the nightclub incident , which has nothing do with racism

BlackburnRovers wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:Y

Take a look at India - Australia an the racial tensions between the two countries. You know something as trivial as 3 ugly, loser Indian males not being granted entry into a Oz nightclub was perceived by the Indian media as racism. Now it's another matter that if you are not dressed appropriately, weather ur white, black,yellow, green or blue they will not grant u entry into any club. The point is the sensationalist Indian media reported it, the public lapped it up and it's all contributed to giving the Ozzies a bad name. Latest stats, a 50% drop in student visa applications. And the education business there is worth something like 15 billion annually.
.

Very misleading statement. The drop in Indian visa applications has more to do with numerous murders/stabbings of Indian students, and cases where they were were burnt by hooligans.

The Indian outcry has little to do with the nightclub incident , which has nothing do with racism

when u say numerous do u have averages?
lets say per 1000 students how many were attacked?
why were they attacked? were they merely innocent students studying in Australia or were they people who perhaps got involved with shady groups?

I'm not defending nor accusing here. But impartial facts would certainly help.

Besides you brush away the nightclub incident, but you can't deny it was front page news

I think MCL makes a good point here.

Public perception is the key word. Just look at how a small group of muslim extremists are ruining the name of islam for millions of people around the world. It is they who get all the media attention. Same leverage happens in favor of the Indians in Australia or as a negative response to torture from a fascist elite of a ruling family...

People react to the media perception even though its a minority issue. Media gives those minorities some leverage and people respond accordingly.

Like I said, not a single dime from my pocket is coming into the UAE in the coming years. Multiply that by a 1000 persons, a million, two million, 10 million, 50 million people...

You get the idea.

RobbyG wrote:I think MCL makes a good point here.

Public perception is the key word. Just look at how a small group of muslim extremists are ruining the name of islam for millions of people around the world. It is they who get all the media attention. Same leverage happens in favor of the Indians in Australia or as a negative response to torture from a fascist elite of a ruling family...

People react to the media perception even though its a minority issue. Media gives those minorities some leverage and people respond accordingly.

Like I said, not a single dime from my pocket is coming into the UAE in the coming years. Multiply that by a 1000 persons, a million, two million, 10 million, 50 million people...

You get the idea.

Rob, would you mind if it went INTO your pocket?? Don't tell me that if you didn't find a job to your liking and it offered a good package, you would say NO based on the event surrounding Sheikh Eisa. Would you also be taking into consideration what Herve wrote? On that subject I will comment as I have given it further thought and have had more insight to his situation.

I would have to say you are contradicting your own words by saying that the media is giving the situation leverage and people (you) are responding accordingly.

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:I think MCL makes a good point here.

Public perception is the key word. Just look at how a small group of muslim extremists are ruining the name of islam for millions of people around the world. It is they who get all the media attention. Same leverage happens in favor of the Indians in Australia or as a negative response to torture from a fascist elite of a ruling family...

People react to the media perception even though its a minority issue. Media gives those minorities some leverage and people respond accordingly.

Like I said, not a single dime from my pocket is coming into the UAE in the coming years. Multiply that by a 1000 persons, a million, two million, 10 million, 50 million people...

You get the idea.

Rob, would you mind if it went INTO your pocket?? Don't tell me that if you didn't find a job to your liking and it offered a good package, you would say NO based on the event surrounding Sheikh Eisa. Would you also be taking into consideration what Herve wrote? On that subject I will comment as I have given it further thought and have had more insight to his situation.

I would have to say you are contradicting your own words by saying that the media is giving the situation leverage and people (you) are responding accordingly.

BB, wasn't it clear to you already?

I had enough of UAE practices and are moving on to other International opportunities. I'm glad I woke up before I had to curb my personal freedom of expression. It certainly would have backlashed on me. You cannot deny one's inner core. I speak out.

I cancelled an Abu Dhabi interview that I received last week (applied for in October). There are plenty of opportunities out there and I'm taking a stance here.

My decision. My character. Can't fcuk with that.

uaekid wrote:financially ? you mean they 'll stop buying our oil or investing or traveling here ? the way I see it is that regardless of the so called bad publicity ppl are still piling up waiting in line to come in , countries seeking our relation more than ever before, yaa I wonder too when this will harm us financially!.

you and the other attackers can always dream and try, but as you and the UK media can see "we are untouchable" so suck it up .

Kid, when reading the article you will note that the news of the case did put a strain on the AD and the US with regard to the energy deal. I would tend to think that it was an issued that was discussed prior to the US and AD signing the energy agreement. What I also tend to think is that AD told the US what the US wanted to hear - that there would be a trial. Deal signed - screw you US!!!

As for countries seeking relations with the UAE, specifically AD, your thinking is a bit of a stretch. The UAE wants international relations so that it can be recognized internationally. Deals are struck that benefits both sides - the UAE and the country it is dealing with. Keep in mind that the people who they tried in absentina were Americans. Don't you think that other people might have reservations dealing with AD, which is basically dealing with the Royal Family?? Seeing how the JUST-IS system works, do they really want to take the chance in getting caught up in it??

Do you really think that the outcome of this trial will actually encourage countries to establish relations with the UAE when the justice system is so blatantly flawed?? You are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Eisa, yet you poopoo Herve's experience. I guess we will have to wait for Eisa's book to be published. I'm sure we will find it in the fairy section. Ooops, I mean the fairy tail section. Oooops again, I mean fairy tale section.

Anyone with a modicum of intellect would question why everyone else "involved" in the situation received a prison sentence and Eisa was acquitted. As I said in another post, it is a black spot on AD, but AD is doing a good job in making that spot bigger and bigger. The article called it a hole that was getting bigger and bigger.

The article indicates that the Afghani owed Eisa money. Other accounts in Gulf publications stated he was a drug smuggler and yet another account was that he stole from Eisa. Which is it? Hmmmmmmm, could it all be relative? Did the Afghani get caught skimming from the proceeds or the product itself??

RobbyG wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

RobbyG wrote:I think MCL makes a good point here.

Public perception is the key word. Just look at how a small group of muslim extremists are ruining the name of islam for millions of people around the world. It is they who get all the media attention. Same leverage happens in favor of the Indians in Australia or as a negative response to torture from a fascist elite of a ruling family...

People react to the media perception even though its a minority issue. Media gives those minorities some leverage and people respond accordingly.

Like I said, not a single dime from my pocket is coming into the UAE in the coming years. Multiply that by a 1000 persons, a million, two million, 10 million, 50 million people...

You get the idea.

Rob, would you mind if it went INTO your pocket?? Don't tell me that if you didn't find a job to your liking and it offered a good package, you would say NO based on the event surrounding Sheikh Eisa. Would you also be taking into consideration what Herve wrote? On that subject I will comment as I have given it further thought and have had more insight to his situation.

I would have to say you are contradicting your own words by saying that the media is giving the situation leverage and people (you) are responding accordingly.

BB, wasn't it clear to you already?

I had enough of UAE practices and are moving on to other International opportunities. I'm glad I woke up before I had to curb my personal freedom of expression. It certainly would have backlashed on me. You cannot deny one's inner core. I speak out.

I cancelled an Abu Dhabi interview that I received last week (applied for in October). There are plenty of opportunities out there and I'm taking a stance here.

My decision. My character. Can't love with that.

Rob, (backing away), didn't know that you made that decision. I just thought you were going with the flow. I don't understand how much personal freedom of expression you think you would have been denied. What is it that you would not have been able to do that would have brought the roof down on you?? People don't have to compromise their decision-making or their character to live/work here. We make changes and allowances, and that is something you will have to do wherever you go.

Things are no different now than they were 3 years ago. Actually, there have been some improvements from 3 years back.

I gather one of the things you will be looking at wherever you relocate is that there is a justice system that is equal and fair. When you find that perfect country please let us know. As far as I'm concerned, all justice systems are corrupt or can be corrupted, as are the governments.

My comment about Herve:

I received a communication from him and gave it thought. Taking a few steps back and looking at it objectively, I think what happened to Herve, here on the forum, was a result of his coming out and dropping his story like a bombshell on the forum. Very unusual indeed at the time. When you stop and think about it, had his story come out on the forum just before his book came out, and when Dubai was getting all that fast and negative publicity, people would have eaten it up!!! It was just bad timing and poor judgement on his part. It was also wrong, speaking for myself, to jump on him, knowing that poopoo happens in Dubai. Oh, Oh, will saying "poopoo" take this to FC???

Bora Bora wrote:
Rob, (backing away), didn't know that you made that decision. I just thought you were going with the flow. I don't understand how much personal freedom of expression you think you would have been denied. What is it that you would not have been able to do that would have brought the roof down on you?? People don't have to compromise their decision-making or their character to live/work here. We make changes and allowances, and that is something you will have to do wherever you go.

Things are no different now than they were 3 years ago. Actually, there have been some improvements from 3 years back.

I gather one of the things you will be looking at wherever you relocate is that there is a justice system that is equal and fair. When you find that perfect country please let us know. As far as I'm concerned, all justice systems are corrupt or can be corrupted, as are the governments.

You and I both know that Utopia doesn't exist. I'm not expecting that either.

Funny thing though, when I first thought to move and work in the Gulf, you have this idea to get out of the regulated and mostly socialist environment of my home country. But after studying Dubai and its practices for about a year now, I really start to appreciate the sweet taste of absolute freedom in Holland once again. There is no real corruption here. This country is so fully managed with checks and balances everywhere, that my rights are absolutely granted.

The only thing a libertarian like me has issues with in Holland, are the countless rules and regulations that limit once freedom of pursuing your own business. Thats what wrecks me here. But put in perspective, I'm blessed to be born in the Netherlands.

They say, reflection needs experience. Well, with broadband internet at hand nowadays, a good set of brains and some genuine interest brings you far ahead of the curve. I'm glad I prepared myself this way.

ps: I didn't had the traffic jams, but I did see the infrastructure on photo and video. Youtube and photosharing of the 21st Century is a blessing hon.

My comment about Herve:

I received a communication from him and gave it thought. Taking a few steps back and looking at it objectively, I think what happened to Herve, here on the forum, was a result of his coming out and dropping his story like a bombshell on the forum. Very unusual indeed at the time. When you stop and think about it, had his story come out on the forum just before his book came out, and when Dubai was getting all that fast and negative publicity, people would have eaten it up!!! It was just bad timing and poor judgement on his part. It was also wrong, speaking for myself, to jump on him, knowing that poopoo happens in Dubai. Oh, Oh, will saying "poopoo" take this to FC???

Well, his timing can't be blamed in my opinion. I would couple the negative reaction of DF visitors to plain unwillingness of people to see things with an open mind, instead of a biased one. Sage is a prime example among others.

Some don't even know what criticism should mean to people. Its supposed to be a way for self reflection and the necessary adjustments but they never experienced that when the state takes care of you as a national. Everything is taken for granted with the sacrifice of certain rights to vote and criticize its ruler

Thats also one of the reasons why some Elites have no respect for human life. After all, they collect their income and state benefits on the back of lower paid workers who build their wealth. All under the disguise of the profit motive. Its nauseing if you ask me.

ps: Did you see some of the Doha Debates on the internet?

@RobbyG. Did not see any of the debates. OK, here I go, publicly embarrassing myself.

As you very well know, a computer wiz kid I am not. I thought we were going to be moving and was getting ahead of myself in packing, so I thought I would remove the mic and camera from the computer. I unplugged the connections for the mic, camera, speakers from the computer and went to connect the speakers a few days later - and, yeah, that's right - no sound!!!! No youtube, no debates. It really sucks!!!!! Tried every which way. Will have to wait till we do move to have someone come in a set everything up.

It seems strange to me that you would have trouble setting up a business in your own country. If it's that difficult, the government certainly isn't making it easy for their own to succeed. And there is corruption in every government Rob, even to the smallest degree, but it exists. Bend a law, bend a rule to suit a purpose - I'm sure it happens in Holland.

I do miss my freedom in the US, and the corrupt goverment . What I don't miss is the abuse of freedom by - and here I go again!!! - those living in the US illegally. But that's a topic that's been done to death, so I'll leave it at that.

Of course there is corruption. Its just neglectible in relation to countries with no checks and balances. I rather see it in perspective.

As for your computer problem. Lets give you a quick fix.

Try put the speaker plug in the back of your computer into the 'mint green' coloured socket of your soundcard slot.

Wanna bet it will work, if you didn't change any software settings in the mean time?

I'm waiting for a hurray

Didn't change any settings and the color coding wires/sockets I know about. Checked everything!!! Will just have to wait.

Bora Bora wrote:

uaekid wrote:financially ? you mean they 'll stop buying our oil or investing or traveling here ? the way I see it is that regardless of the so called bad publicity ppl are still piling up waiting in line to come in , countries seeking our relation more than ever before, yaa I wonder too when this will harm us financially!.

you and the other attackers can always dream and try, but as you and the UK media can see "we are untouchable" so suck it up .

Kid, when reading the article you will note that the news of the case did put a strain on the AD and the US with regard to the energy deal. I would tend to think that it was an issued that was discussed prior to the US and AD signing the energy agreement. What I also tend to think is that AD told the US what the US wanted to hear - that there would be a trial. Deal signed - screw you US!!!

As for countries seeking relations with the UAE, specifically AD, your thinking is a bit of a stretch. The UAE wants international relations so that it can be recognized internationally. Deals are struck that benefits both sides - the UAE and the country it is dealing with. Keep in mind that the people who they tried in absentina were Americans. Don't you think that other people might have reservations dealing with AD, which is basically dealing with the Royal Family?? Seeing how the JUST-IS system works, do they really want to take the chance in getting caught up in it??

Do you really think that the outcome of this trial will actually encourage countries to establish relations with the UAE when the justice system is so blatantly flawed?? You are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Eisa, yet you poopoo Herve's experience. I guess we will have to wait for Eisa's book to be published. I'm sure we will find it in the fairy section. Ooops, I mean the fairy tail section. Oooops again, I mean fairy tale section.

Anyone with a modicum of intellect would question why everyone else "involved" in the situation received a prison sentence and Eisa was acquitted. As I said in another post, it is a black spot on AD, but AD is doing a good job in making that spot bigger and bigger. The article called it a hole that was getting bigger and bigger.

The article indicates that the Afghani owed Eisa money. Other accounts in Gulf publications stated he was a drug smuggler and yet another account was that he stole from Eisa. Which is it? Hmmmmmmm, could it all be relative? Did the Afghani get caught skimming from the proceeds or the product itself??

hon ,you are not getting me here.. regardless of him being guilty or not, the discussion is not about him more than it is his lawyers using an unfair law to his benefit . you want the country to over look that unfair law for the sack of the country relation or reputation ? you are treating a wrong doing "essa case" with another wrong doing "bypassing a law" you catch my drift ?

one unfair law in the USA for example is that with out the dead body you can not convict a criminal even if he admits it, showed pictures of him self killing or video taped it. it is an unfair law but it is there and has to be used in court. we don't like it and it is obvious "the killing" but it's there. you know what I mean ? I really don't care much for essa more than I care for a realistic point of view.

uaekid wrote: one unfair law in the USA for example is that with out the dead body you can not convict a criminal even if he admits it, showed pictures of him self killing or video taped it. it is an unfair law but it is there and has to be used in court. we don't like it and it is obvious "the killing" but it's there. you know what I mean ? I really don't care much for essa more than I care for a realistic point of view.

I presume from your posts that you are not a lawyer although there are plenty of crappy lawyers in the UAE for sure. However one need not be a lawyer to know that the above is wrong. Spend a few minutes doing some research and you'll find out.

uaekid wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:

uaekid wrote:financially ? you mean they 'll stop buying our oil or investing or traveling here ? the way I see it is that regardless of the so called bad publicity ppl are still piling up waiting in line to come in , countries seeking our relation more than ever before, yaa I wonder too when this will harm us financially!.

you and the other attackers can always dream and try, but as you and the UK media can see "we are untouchable" so suck it up .

Kid, when reading the article you will note that the news of the case did put a strain on the AD and the US with regard to the energy deal. I would tend to think that it was an issued that was discussed prior to the US and AD signing the energy agreement. What I also tend to think is that AD told the US what the US wanted to hear - that there would be a trial. Deal signed - screw you US!!!

As for countries seeking relations with the UAE, specifically AD, your thinking is a bit of a stretch. The UAE wants international relations so that it can be recognized internationally. Deals are struck that benefits both sides - the UAE and the country it is dealing with. Keep in mind that the people who they tried in absentina were Americans. Don't you think that other people might have reservations dealing with AD, which is basically dealing with the Royal Family?? Seeing how the JUST-IS system works, do they really want to take the chance in getting caught up in it??

Do you really think that the outcome of this trial will actually encourage countries to establish relations with the UAE when the justice system is so blatantly flawed?? You are willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Eisa, yet you poopoo Herve's experience. I guess we will have to wait for Eisa's book to be published. I'm sure we will find it in the fairy section. Ooops, I mean the fairy tail section. Oooops again, I mean fairy tale section.

Anyone with a modicum of intellect would question why everyone else "involved" in the situation received a prison sentence and Eisa was acquitted. As I said in another post, it is a black spot on AD, but AD is doing a good job in making that spot bigger and bigger. The article called it a hole that was getting bigger and bigger.

The article indicates that the Afghani owed Eisa money. Other accounts in Gulf publications stated he was a drug smuggler and yet another account was that he stole from Eisa. Which is it? Hmmmmmmm, could it all be relative? Did the Afghani get caught skimming from the proceeds or the product itself??

hon ,you are not getting me here.. regardless of him being guilty or not, the discussion is not about him more than it is his lawyers using an unfair law to his benefit . you want the country to over look that unfair law for the sack of the country relation or reputation ? you are treating a wrong doing "essa case" with another wrong doing "bypassing a law" you catch my drift ?

one unfair law in the USA for example is that with out the dead body you can not convict a criminal even if he admits it, showed pictures of him self killing or video taped it. it is an unfair law but it is there and has to be used in court. we don't like it and it is obvious "the killing" but it's there. you know what I mean ? I really don't care much for essa more than I care for a realistic point of view.

Kid you can't get your head wrapped around the laws in the UAE, never mind the US!!!

The lawyers didn't use "unfair" law as you put it. Apparently "law" didn't factor in during his trial. What did factor in: member of the Royal Family and a disgraceful story (not even a poor excuse) to acquit him. You really need to come to terms with it. OK, you aren't defending Eisa, but are certainly excusing the way his "trial" was conducted and how they reached a "verdict" to acquit him.

Also note that there was one story where it said that the Lebanese brothers drugged his drinks, then this story it says they forceably injected him with drugs. I guess the residue of all 66 drugs that were in him are causing him to change is story over and over. That one statement alone - 66 types of drugs - is just so laughable it confirms everything else in the story: that it is nothing more than a bad joke played out on society.

I can understand the lawyer distorting facts for whatever reason. What makes me shudder is that a "Doctor", (Egyptian) certified all medical aspects of how the "dangerous combination of drugs etc etc). Lawyers throughout the world are know for their smartness and crookedness, but a doctor ?

they are all paying jobs

No offense to the OP but this is just another story among many. The justice system is good and bad everywhere. Are you all forgetting how OJ Simpson got away with murder in the USA? Man was guilty as sin. That there is crooked politicians, lawyers and judges is old news. I have no idea is this particular case is true or not. People can choice to believe what ever they like. The public is easily brain washed. The media does it all the time. What power the big news networks have.

canuckbid wrote:No offense to the OP but this is just another story among many. The justice system is good and bad everywhere. Are you all forgetting how OJ Simpson got away with murder in the USA? Man was guilty as sin. That there is crooked politicians, lawyers and judges is old news. I have no idea is this particular case is true or not. People can choice to believe what ever they like. The public is easily brain washed. The media does it all the time. What power the big news networks have.

The difference is that the OJ trial was a real trial and a jury of 12 people (brain dead apparently) decided the case (wrongly, as per most people) but everyone "knew" he would eventually pay for it. As of now OJ sit in prison and will be there for a decade. As for mr. Eissa in his palace I suppose.

The OJ Simpson trial was different in that it although the verdict was equally suspect,there was never any allegation of corruption. The jury simply found him not guilty because the defense played the race card.

Dr Strangeglove wrote:The OJ Simpson trial was different in that it although the verdict was equally suspect,there was never any allegation of corruption. The jury simply found him not guilty because the defense played the race card.

also there wasn't a video!! - open and shut case!

Even if he was found guilty in court (which the judge wouldn't have the balls to do) he would for sure have been pardoned after and released. Instead of letting the Sheikh do the dirty work after they made sure that the judge ruled on the case the way he was supposed to. I am sure there was some behind the scenes arm twisting lol. The prosecuting attorney probably only provided evidence that would not hold up in court or he would face the same fate and most likely not be allowed to practice law any more in the UAE.

Many attorneys in the UAE are expats. Local attorneys will not go after government officials in local courts and expats would get the boot immediately on the next flight home were they to even think about taking a local official to court. The fact is most lawyers will refuse to take on any court case against the government or any local official. It may be possible to do so but it would take a local with balls to do so and a local coming from a wealthy background in order to do so.

It appears that this thread is going sideways in another direction. Since the OJ Simpson case was brought up, if one recalls,there was a civil case brought against OJ by the parents of Ron Goldstein, in which case he was found guilty. Unfortunately in a civil matter, winning is only a financial gain, with some acknowledgement that the person being tried is guilty.

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/noto ... ad_16.html

The criminal trial was over, but the law was not finished with Orenthal James Simpson. A year later on October 23rd, 1996, another trial began and once again, he was the defendant.

This time, the venue was the courthouse in Santa Monica. Before a jury of one black, one Hispanic, one Asian, and nine whites, a civil trial began to lay judgment again on him for the murders of Ronald Lyle Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson.

In this civil suit filed by the Goldman and Brown families, Simpson could not invoke the Fifth Amendment and, unlike the criminal case, was forced to testify. Also, the standard of proof was a lot easier than in the criminal case. There, guilt must be proven "beyond a reasonable doubt." In a civil case, guilt had only to be proven according to the "preponderance of the evidence", rather than "beyond a reasonable doubt." In other words its purpose is to decide whether it is more likely than not that the defendant committed the crime.

On February 4th, 1997, the jury awarded $8.5 million in compensatory damages to Fred Goldman and his ex-wife Sharon Rufo for the loss of their son's love, companionship and moral support. A few days later, they brought in punitive damages of $25 million to be shared between Nicole's children and Fred Goldman.

The jury had considered for six days, after the four-month trial. It seemed a lot more deliberate than the five hours it took the criminal court jury to decide after over nine months of testimony.

Fred Goldman, a pathfinder in the legal attack against Simpson, told reporters that Tuesday evening, "We finally have justice for Ron and Nicole. Our family is grateful for a verdict of responsibility."

It seemed at long last that judgment had finally been observed. The money of course, was never paid out. Simpson's lawyer, Robert Baker, told the jury that Simpson was broke, with a negative net worth of $856,157, down from a net positive worth of $10 million. He owed lawyer fees, back taxes of $685,248.00 to the IRS, and mortgage repayments, and in effect was without assets. It appears unlikely that anyone will ever get anything of any consequence.

uaekid wrote:one unfair law in the USA for example is that with out the dead body you can not convict a criminal even if he admits it, showed pictures of him self killing or video taped it. it is an unfair law but it is there and has to be used in court. we don't like it and it is obvious "the killing" but it's there. you know what I mean ? I really don't care much for essa more than I care for a realistic point of view.

Here is a reminder of a case in Dubai. This man admits to having killed the woman. He disposed of her body but it has yet to be found. He has also told the police of 4 different locations. So, here he admits to having killed her, but yet he is being put on trial. In light of the fact that they cannot find the body, his sentence would be reduced, but based on his own admission, and evidence, he will be convicted. And if there was a video or photos of his criminal act, I can assure you the sentence would be heavier, but not as heavy as if a body was produced. Your understanding of the law is off base. But wait --- is it possible it's because the accused and the deceased are expats?? Different laws being applied here?? What civilized country would actually let someone off who admits to killing someone, there is evidence, there may be photos, there may be eyewitnesses, but because there is no body, there is no case??


http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-09-21- ... of-madness

Mark Arnold, the man being held by Dubai police in connection with the disappearance of South African Kerry Winter (35) allegedly confessed that she died after he beat her during "30 seconds of madness", the United Kingdom-based Mail Online reported on Sunday.

Arnold (42) a British national, admitted that Winter died after he had hit her three times on the head with a stick during an intense fracas on August 20. The confession was made during a telephonic interview with the British newspaper from his police cell in Dubai.

'It was 30 seconds of madness .. . I think I hit her three times ... she died because of me," Arnold told the paper.

The executive with an interior design firm said he then hid the body on his boat and went to work as normal before returning the following evening to dump it at sea. Arnold previously denied killing Winter, who had lived with him for five years. He insisted that she was alive when he left her at the side of the road after they had argued.

"It was a total accident," he said.

"I am not a violent man and I am not a murderer. It was an accident but she died because of me and I am willing to take my punishment. I am prepared to admit to the truth but I do not want to be fitted up."

Winter's brother Clint, who recently arrived in Dubai to "tie up loose ends" told the South African Press Association police had informed the family of Arnold's confession.

But the family say they will not rest until Winter's body is found.

"He has already said he disposed of the body in four different places, so we don't know," he said.

According to Clint, Arnold has not yet been charged in the matter relating to his sister but he did face a charge for assaulting a neighbour at Winter's home in Al Barsha on the night of her disappearance.

Arnold told the Mail he bumped into Winter at a bar when an argument ensued over their relationship which ended in May on August 20. He followed her when she left the bar and drove back to her villa.

"She came up to me and hit me and we got into a scuffle. I hit her with a stick which I had picked up in the villa grounds -- I think I hit her three times. Kerry slipped but she got up. It was 30 seconds of madness for the both of us. I assaulted her.

"There is no excuse. I have never assaulted anyone before. I am a family man and this was 30 seconds which ruined my life," he said.

He alleged that Winter was bleeding from the head wounds he had inflicted but she agreed to go with him to a quiet spot where they could talk. He said he cleaned her wounds and they then fell asleep.

"When I woke up, she was dead. I was horrified, so scared. I can only think that she had a thin skull or something like that because she was OK when we got in the car. I was scared. I tried to cover my tracks and put Kerry on my boat and left it anchored off shore," he said.

"I returned after work and drove around for four or five hours and ended up putting Kerry's body into the sea. I do not know where."

Arnold may be charged with manslaughter, which carries a maximum ten-year sentence but if a body was found and forensics indicated a savage beating, he was likely to face a murder charge. This carries the death sentence although this is rarely carried out, the report said. - Sapa

Bora Bora wrote:

uaekid wrote:one unfair law in the USA for example is that with out the dead body you can not convict a criminal even if he admits it, showed pictures of him self killing or video taped it. it is an unfair law but it is there and has to be used in court. we don't like it and it is obvious "the killing" but it's there. you know what I mean ? I really don't care much for essa more than I care for a realistic point of view.

Here is a reminder of a case in Dubai. This man admits to having killed the woman. He disposed of her body but it has yet to be found. He has also told the police of 4 different locations. So, here he admits to having killed her, but yet he is being put on trial. In light of the fact that they cannot find the body, his sentence would be reduced, but based on his own admission, and evidence, he will be convicted. And if there was a video or photos of his criminal act, I can assure you the sentence would be heavier, but not as heavy as if a body was produced. Your understanding of the law is off base. But wait --- is it possible it's because the accused and the deceased are expats?? Different laws being applied here?? What civilized country would actually let someone off who admits to killing someone, there is evidence, there may be photos, there may be eyewitnesses, but because there is no body, there is no case??


http://www.mg.co.za/article/2008-09-21- ... of-madness

Mark Arnold, the man being held by Dubai police in connection with the disappearance of South African Kerry Winter (35) allegedly confessed that she died after he beat her during "30 seconds of madness", the United Kingdom-based Mail Online reported on Sunday.

Arnold (42) a British national, admitted that Winter died after he had hit her three times on the head with a stick during an intense fracas on August 20. The confession was made during a telephonic interview with the British newspaper from his police cell in Dubai.

'It was 30 seconds of madness .. . I think I hit her three times ... she died because of me," Arnold told the paper.

The executive with an interior design firm said he then hid the body on his boat and went to work as normal before returning the following evening to dump it at sea. Arnold previously denied killing Winter, who had lived with him for five years. He insisted that she was alive when he left her at the side of the road after they had argued.

"It was a total accident," he said.

"I am not a violent man and I am not a murderer. It was an accident but she died because of me and I am willing to take my punishment. I am prepared to admit to the truth but I do not want to be fitted up."

Winter's brother Clint, who recently arrived in Dubai to "tie up loose ends" told the South African Press Association police had informed the family of Arnold's confession.

But the family say they will not rest until Winter's body is found.

"He has already said he disposed of the body in four different places, so we don't know," he said.

According to Clint, Arnold has not yet been charged in the matter relating to his sister but he did face a charge for assaulting a neighbour at Winter's home in Al Barsha on the night of her disappearance.

Arnold told the Mail he bumped into Winter at a bar when an argument ensued over their relationship which ended in May on August 20. He followed her when she left the bar and drove back to her villa.

"She came up to me and hit me and we got into a scuffle. I hit her with a stick which I had picked up in the villa grounds -- I think I hit her three times. Kerry slipped but she got up. It was 30 seconds of madness for the both of us. I assaulted her.

"There is no excuse. I have never assaulted anyone before. I am a family man and this was 30 seconds which ruined my life," he said.

He alleged that Winter was bleeding from the head wounds he had inflicted but she agreed to go with him to a quiet spot where they could talk. He said he cleaned her wounds and they then fell asleep.

"When I woke up, she was dead. I was horrified, so scared. I can only think that she had a thin skull or something like that because she was OK when we got in the car. I was scared. I tried to cover my tracks and put Kerry on my boat and left it anchored off shore," he said.

"I returned after work and drove around for four or five hours and ended up putting Kerry's body into the sea. I do not know where."

Arnold may be charged with manslaughter, which carries a maximum ten-year sentence but if a body was found and forensics indicated a savage beating, he was likely to face a murder charge. This carries the death sentence although this is rarely carried out, the report said. - Sapa

bora,

you are quoting my statement of a USA law and you are giving a UAE example !

http://www.tdcaa.com/node/1497

and I might be mistaken but it is a lawyers excuse more than it is a law ,it goes by the "absence of a body" an of course there are different circumstances in every case .