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Speedhump wrote:My main point however is that you cannot build a new economic power without a massive amount of cheap fuel and labour. So don't even try to tell the world's developing countries that they can't use either, they won't listen.

Snow wrote:As far as I know Abu Dhabi n Sharjah employ Indian workers as well with same salaries and apply same passport/sponsorship rules.
Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and probably Saudi do too....why is he fixating on Dubai??? And why only after the UAE stocks have collapsed did he report this???

desert surfer wrote:

Snow wrote:As far as I know Abu Dhabi n Sharjah employ Indian workers as well with same salaries and apply same passport/sponsorship rules.
Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and probably Saudi do too....why is he fixating on Dubai??? And why only after the UAE stocks have collapsed did he report this???

Because he is a reporter and this is his job.... he is reporting what he is seeing.

Unless u have a habit of thinking about other woman/man while mating with ur spouse u wont get the art of reporting....

this is oneof the best Dubai bashing I have read in a while.

Chocoholic wrote:I don't think it's exaggerated at all.

RC, I found the bit on Karen Andrews more than a little iffy too.

Johan 'found' her in the car park. Found?

She's been living in the car park 'for months' and "now I'm illegal too"

Has she thought of contacting the Canadian Embassy I wonder?

She and her husband had no idea about Dubai before they came, nor after they arrived it seems, and they made no attempt to find out anything. And they don't sound as though they were very responsible - strange for a man in senior positions and a woman who'd run her own business. "When he said Dubai, I said – if you want me to wear black and quit booze, baby, you've got the wrong girl. But he asked me to give it a chance.

Life was fantastic..It seemed like everyone was a CEO. We were partying the whole time."

Her husband, Daniel, bought two properties. "We were drunk on Dubai"

So they can't get help from their Embassy, they have no family back home who can help, they can't rent out their two properties to get income, they still have the Range Rover.

Hmmm.

And then there's the contradiction in timings: 'Daniel was sentenced to six months' imprisonment'..."I have to last nine months until he's out, somehow."

And at the end of the segment the astonishing claim by Johann: All over the city, there are maxed-out expats sleeping secretly in the sand-dunes or the airport or in their cars.

Very dodgy, very sloppy stuff.

Snow wrote:As far as I know Abu Dhabi n Sharjah employ Indian workers as well with same salaries and apply same passport/sponsorship rules.
Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and probably Saudi do too....why is he fixating on Dubai??? And why only after the UAE stocks have collapsed did he report this???

Misery Called Life wrote:Britain's ministe of interior who is in Abu-Dhabi, even publicly distanced himself from such"over exaggerated" articles by Brit Publications!

desertdudeshj wrote:

RobbyG wrote: a depleting supply from the Middle East

What ? Only if you knew the things I knew.

And what 70's rethoric man. Most probally like 99% of people living in the west believe the Iraqi Invasion and now trying tussle up Iran is all about the war on terror you are one of them. Its all about the black gold homes.

The gulf war is the now and the 70's reference is just to show you how long "they" have been drooling to get to it. And now they have found the perfect excuse.

Trust me dude, like I said eairler if USA, UK or Europe had all the oil reserves you wouldn't even know what an electric car was.

Just like you say I choose to ignore the enviromental issues you choose to ignore this. Dude your the one who has to come out of the frame and look at the broad reality.

And the fact remains people will be still be driving petrol driven cars long after me and you are gone. So why fight it, Join in man. get your self a gas guzzler and feel the power of a real machine and not a puny four pot deisel. Oh sorry I forgot you have to leave a kidney behind everytime you fill up at the pump. But you guys are trying your best to make that better now isn't

Cheers buddy

P.S : when you say "This is no way comparable with what I showed you." WHY NOT ? after all one of the articles is from your cherised independant written by Cahal Milmo one of their chief reporters. The independant which in the other thread you can't help sing high praises of its accurate factual journalism and how well written it is ? Now whats the matter ? Its all of a sudden lost all its credibilty ???

Oh and Checking out mate need to get some Zzzz's

michaeldubai wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:Britain's ministe of interior who is in Abu-Dhabi, even publicly distanced himself from such"over exaggerated" articles by Brit Publications!

If you're in the lion's cage, is it right to piss off the lion?

quatroporte wrote:

michaeldubai wrote:

Misery Called Life wrote:Britain's ministe of interior who is in Abu-Dhabi, even publicly distanced himself from such"over exaggerated" articles by Brit Publications!

If you're in the lion's cage, is it right to piss off the lion?

read this http://www.arabianbusiness.com/551961-uk-govt-distances-itself-from-dubai-attacks

RobbyG wrote:

desertdudeshj wrote:

RobbyG wrote: a depleting supply from the Middle East

What ? Only if you knew the things I knew.

And what 70's rethoric man. Most probally like 99% of people living in the west believe the Iraqi Invasion and now trying tussle up Iran is all about the war on terror you are one of them. Its all about the black gold homes.

The gulf war is the now and the 70's reference is just to show you how long "they" have been drooling to get to it. And now they have found the perfect excuse.

Trust me dude, like I said eairler if USA, UK or Europe had all the oil reserves you wouldn't even know what an electric car was.

Just like you say I choose to ignore the enviromental issues you choose to ignore this. Dude your the one who has to come out of the frame and look at the broad reality.

And the fact remains people will be still be driving petrol driven cars long after me and you are gone. So why fight it, Join in man. get your self a gas guzzler and feel the power of a real machine and not a puny four pot deisel. Oh sorry I forgot you have to leave a kidney behind everytime you fill up at the pump. But you guys are trying your best to make that better now isn't

Cheers buddy

P.S : when you say "This is no way comparable with what I showed you." WHY NOT ? after all one of the articles is from your cherised independant written by Cahal Milmo one of their chief reporters. The independant which in the other thread you can't help sing high praises of its accurate factual journalism and how well written it is ? Now whats the matter ? Its all of a sudden lost all its credibilty ???

Oh and Checking out mate need to get some Zzzz's

You are right about 'the black gold' being a strategic resources we all need to have. The US imported it for decades without using their own resources beneath the ground, just because prices remained so low for decades till the '90s. Now they start drilling in the Appalach shales and tar sands in Canada, simply to be less dependant on an oil price of 100+ dollars a barrel.

In the US thats nearly 4 dollars a gallon (~3.75 liters) but in Europe we have this nice little fucked up tax system for government spending on innovation. In Holland we are paying 1 euro 60 per liter !! That 6 euro a gallon and that is: 7.5 dollar per US gallon. !!!! BOINK Helloooo!!

Are you nuts, I'm not able to drive a gazz guzzler from the US of A. I really don't even want to drive it with that sick carbon footprint those GM cars have! I drive German BMW. I drive a in-line six cilinder, 2.0 liter injection M52 Single VANOS engine from 1996. Excellent sportcoupé car and it slurps about 1 liter every 14 kilometers when driving normal. 150 horsepowers under the bonnet. More than enough for a Sheihk Zayed Road traffic congestion

Because of the supply demand issue we currently have between oil authocracies and Russia, the Europeans are trying to get away from this dependancy since Russia shot off Ukraine a winter back and that means Germany doesn't get a feet of gas either at that point!
I merely logical that we seek alternatives and gaining common ground from it by strategically using the resources we have in the Western world.

What is the price for a liter petrol in the UAE?
Thats what I'm saying. You get it at cost price, maybe even government subsided. But not here in Europe I can tell you that. If I go to Venezuela, I get a gallon for 80 dollarcents with subsidy from government.

Some of you really live in a fantasy world. Wait till you visit Europe and have to pay for a hotal arrangement, a ful gas tank or a decent sandwich. Bye bye paycheck. Every product available has its dependancy on oil, one way or the other. You don't think the Western World let oil get back to $150 dollars again now!?

We need to get rid of the full (read: lesser degree) oil dependancy. This is unsustainable for everyone in the long term.

The Green issue, is merely a good incentive to change it all for the better. I won't deny that as you implied. ITs actually a good thing to lower your carbon footprint one day. Maybe our legacies can all live a few years longer without nature disrupting our daily standards of living.

I'm done.

Anosh wrote:Oppsss.... The Independent published a lengthy article by Johann Hari headlined “The Dark Side of Dubai.” One of the prominent Emiratis featured, Sultan Sooud Al Qassemi, hits back at the report.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/552114-l ... q-of-dubai

pinoy1 wrote:

Anosh wrote:Oppsss.... The Independent published a lengthy article by Johann Hari headlined “The Dark Side of Dubai.” One of the prominent Emiratis featured, Sultan Sooud Al Qassemi, hits back at the report.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/552114-l ... q-of-dubai

I was expecting him to deny the allegations regarding the treatment of labourers and all the race-dependent stuff going on around here. Oh well.

pinoy1 wrote:

Anosh wrote:Oppsss.... The Independent published a lengthy article by Johann Hari headlined “The Dark Side of Dubai.” One of the prominent Emiratis featured, Sultan Sooud Al Qassemi, hits back at the report.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/552114-l ... q-of-dubai

I was expecting him to deny the allegations regarding the maltreatment of labourers and all the race-dependent stuff going on around here. Oh well.

Johann Hari's malicious comments about Dubai are not only greatly exaggerated but also very clearly designed in a way to spread propaganda against our city and a large part of the population here.
I am not a local, I am a European expat leaving here for the last two and a half years but I still call Dubai “my” city because this is where I work and live with my wife and because with all honesty the city, the country and its people have all been very good to me. Ever since I moved here I have been enjoying a lot of benefits that it’s very hard to get find back home.

I have read Mr. Hari's article on the Independent and as Mr. Sultan Al Qassemi mentioned in his article above I am surprised that he was miraculously able to meet only silly sounding expats and people whose arguments against Dubai are naïve and childish.
The use of many “anonymous” expats is very convenient and very unfortunate that we can’t crosscheck his sources but most annoying of all is the way that the words of people that sat down with him like were twisted and taken out of context as verified by Mr. Sultan Al Qassemi.
Most remarkable part of his “report” is the opening segment that talks about Mrs. Karen Andrews and her husband, Daniel. Although I have no doubt that the story might be entirely true and I feel a lot of sympathy for Mr. and Mrs. Andrews, I feel that Mr. Hari took advantage of their personal suffering and used it to prove a point against the city. He makes it sound that Dubai is the only country in the world that you go to prison if you don’t pay your debts. It’s like there are no people that are homeless or end up in jail for debt back in the UK and this is a phenomenon only observed in Dubai.

No matter how tragic the personal circumstances around Mr. and Mrs. Andrews case may be, it’s still a fact that they failed to pay their loans. Mrs Andrews could stop sleeping in the Range Rover, sell it and pay off part of the dept and perhaps sleep in a cheaper car like a Toyota Camry.
Self-righteous people like Mr. Hari who come from the country that introduced colonization to the world and invented slavery should not come to Dubai and judge the fact that we use foreign workers. Nobody claims that these workers are not having a hard time in Dubai, or that there aren’t things that can be done to improve their living conditions. Of course there are things that can be done. This will always be the case and a lot of people in Dubai are pushing for reforms. At the same time the fact of the matter is that regardless of how bad it looks to people like Mr. Hari, these workers chose to come to Dubai to work because at least they can provide some financial aid to their families and give them some chance to beat the poverty that cripples their towns and villages back home.

Another high point in his article was the fact that he was commenting on the slow business that stores in some of Dubai’s malls are experiencing as if the global financial crisis that was caused by “bankers” in the USA and the UK is Dubai’s fault. Maybe he should go take a look at Oxford Street in London and write a report on how business is booming over there. He doesn’t seem to mind writing lies so why not do it again?
Lastly, he has no right to criticize HH Sheikh Mohammed who is a great ruler for this country and is loved by everyone. Locals and Expats alike admire his vision and determination. I can very honestly say that many people wish that their home countries had rulers like HH Sheikh Mohammed. My self included.

Red Chief wrote:

Speedhump wrote:My main point however is that you cannot build a new economic power without a massive amount of cheap fuel and labour. So don't even try to tell the world's developing countries that they can't use either, they won't listen.

but those develloping countries suffered from pollution at first. When I visited South-Eastern China 8 years ago I could only estimate the scale of the problem - every riders and every women on the streets wear special masks... A thick smog was permanent even under the bright shine sun.

After that I understood that all those western things about catalyst, electric cars are not only words. You can easily make Hell in one separate city w/o Global Warming problem...

quatroporte wrote:I feel that Independent article made many of you happy!?!?!?!!! it says the truth... yeah it highlights some of Dubai major issues.. like the labour camps etc... but that article is just picking on extremes...

desert surfer wrote:

Snow wrote:As far as I know Abu Dhabi n Sharjah employ Indian workers as well with same salaries and apply same passport/sponsorship rules.
Qatar, Bahrain, Kuwait and probably Saudi do too....why is he fixating on Dubai??? And why only after the UAE stocks have collapsed did he report this???

Because he is a reporter and this is his job.... he is reporting what he is seeing.

Unless u have a habit of thinking about other woman/man while mating with ur spouse u wont get the art of reporting....

this is oneof the best Dubai bashing I have read in a while.

Speedhump wrote:

Red Chief wrote:

Speedhump wrote:My main point however is that you cannot build a new economic power without a massive amount of cheap fuel and labour. So don't even try to tell the world's developing countries that they can't use either, they won't listen.

but those develloping countries suffered from pollution at first. When I visited South-Eastern China 8 years ago I could only estimate the scale of the problem - every riders and every women on the streets wear special masks... A thick smog was permanent even under the bright shine sun.

After that I understood that all those western things about catalyst, electric cars are not only words. You can easily make Hell in one separate city w/o Global Warming problem...

Yes that's exactly right. If you know anything about London in the Nineteenth century it was the same hell on earth, terrible pollution, the people dying of all manner of lung related diseases and so on. All buildings in the City were BLACK through soot. Other towns (industrial/mining) were even worse. That was the price that our forefathers paid for the industrialised world as it is now. And of course not just in the UK, although that was the centre of the industrial revolution and so probably suffered worst.

You can't make steel with electric cars; massive scale heavy industry (the scale that the entire world currently demands by its over-consumption of goods) is dirty and polluting, there's no way around that. For the people of the west to demand milllions of cars, electric goods, etc. each year from the east and then whack them for polluting their countries is a crime in itself. The Caspian Sea is dying because the countries that border it won't agree on pollution controls necessary while they pursue their policies of economic advancement.

Once these countries achieve economic wealth then and only then might they decide to do something SERIOUS about environmental factors. It's the way the west did it and cannot deny.

pinoy1 wrote:

quatroporte wrote:I feel that Independent article made many of you happy!?!?!?!!! it says the truth... yeah it highlights some of Dubai major issues.. like the labour camps etc... but that article is just picking on extremes...

I admit I am one of them. There's too much injustice going on around here and nobody wants to do anything about it because it is either they're not someone the gov't will listen to anyway or they're one of those benefiting from these injustices.

desertdudeshj wrote:This is not about freedom of your rights ( the last desperate card left to play in every argument )

RobbyG wrote:

Speedhump wrote:

Red Chief wrote:

Speedhump wrote:My main point however is that you cannot build a new economic power without a massive amount of cheap fuel and labour. So don't even try to tell the world's developing countries that they can't use either, they won't listen.

but those develloping countries suffered from pollution at first. When I visited South-Eastern China 8 years ago I could only estimate the scale of the problem - every riders and every women on the streets wear special masks... A thick smog was permanent even under the bright shine sun.

After that I understood that all those western things about catalyst, electric cars are not only words. You can easily make Hell in one separate city w/o Global Warming problem...

Yes that's exactly right. If you know anything about London in the Nineteenth century it was the same hell on earth, terrible pollution, the people dying of all manner of lung related diseases and so on. All buildings in the City were BLACK through soot. Other towns (industrial/mining) were even worse. That was the price that our forefathers paid for the industrialised world as it is now. And of course not just in the UK, although that was the centre of the industrial revolution and so probably suffered worst.

You can't make steel with electric cars; massive scale heavy industry (the scale that the entire world currently demands by its over-consumption of goods) is dirty and polluting, there's no way around that. For the people of the west to demand milllions of cars, electric goods, etc. each year from the east and then whack them for polluting their countries is a crime in itself. The Caspian Sea is dying because the countries that border it won't agree on pollution controls necessary while they pursue their policies of economic advancement.

Once these countries achieve economic wealth then and only then might they decide to do something SERIOUS about environmental factors. It's the way the west did it and cannot deny.

Thats correct. People are inherently 'not the brightest' of souls. We had to educate ourselves and learned the hard way. But at least we learned from it, and we will educate the world on ignorance if they tend to stick with it.

One way or the other, the biggest polluters in the world will get what they seed. And the biggest human rights violators, will be turned their back from one day. Also, denying International rules and regulations that are in place for the common wealth creation in this world, are economically punished by investors and governments, eventually. North Korea is a good example among others not mentioned.

You don't wanna be going on your own now are you? Give in some way and you'll reap the benefits of that. Its called diplomacy. Ignorance and denial never worked in this world. At least where I live in...

quatroporte wrote:

pinoy1 wrote:

Anosh wrote:Oppsss.... The Independent published a lengthy article by Johann Hari headlined “The Dark Side of Dubai.” One of the prominent Emiratis featured, Sultan Sooud Al Qassemi, hits back at the report.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/552114-l ... q-of-dubai

I was expecting him to deny the allegations regarding the maltreatment of labourers and all the race-dependent stuff going on around here. Oh well.

I feel that Independent article made many of you happy!?!?!?!!! it says the truth... yeah it highlights some of Dubai major issues.. like the labour camps etc... but that article is just picking on extremes...

another comment quoted

Johann Hari's malicious comments about Dubai are not only greatly exaggerated but also very clearly designed in a way to spread propaganda against our city and a large part of the population here.
I am not a local, I am a European expat leaving here for the last two and a half years but I still call Dubai “my” city because this is where I work and live with my wife and because with all honesty the city, the country and its people have all been very good to me. Ever since I moved here I have been enjoying a lot of benefits that it’s very hard to get find back home.

I have read Mr. Hari's article on the Independent and as Mr. Sultan Al Qassemi mentioned in his article above I am surprised that he was miraculously able to meet only silly sounding expats and people whose arguments against Dubai are naïve and childish.
The use of many “anonymous” expats is very convenient and very unfortunate that we can’t crosscheck his sources but most annoying of all is the way that the words of people that sat down with him like were twisted and taken out of context as verified by Mr. Sultan Al Qassemi.
Most remarkable part of his “report” is the opening segment that talks about Mrs. Karen Andrews and her husband, Daniel. Although I have no doubt that the story might be entirely true and I feel a lot of sympathy for Mr. and Mrs. Andrews, I feel that Mr. Hari took advantage of their personal suffering and used it to prove a point against the city. He makes it sound that Dubai is the only country in the world that you go to prison if you don’t pay your debts. It’s like there are no people that are homeless or end up in jail for debt back in the UK and this is a phenomenon only observed in Dubai.

No matter how tragic the personal circumstances around Mr. and Mrs. Andrews case may be, it’s still a fact that they failed to pay their loans. Mrs Andrews could stop sleeping in the Range Rover, sell it and pay off part of the dept and perhaps sleep in a cheaper car like a Toyota Camry.
Self-righteous people like Mr. Hari who come from the country that introduced colonization to the world and invented slavery should not come to Dubai and judge the fact that we use foreign workers. Nobody claims that these workers are not having a hard time in Dubai, or that there aren’t things that can be done to improve their living conditions. Of course there are things that can be done. This will always be the case and a lot of people in Dubai are pushing for reforms. At the same time the fact of the matter is that regardless of how bad it looks to people like Mr. Hari, these workers chose to come to Dubai to work because at least they can provide some financial aid to their families and give them some chance to beat the poverty that cripples their towns and villages back home.

Another high point in his article was the fact that he was commenting on the slow business that stores in some of Dubai’s malls are experiencing as if the global financial crisis that was caused by “bankers” in the USA and the UK is Dubai’s fault. Maybe he should go take a look at Oxford Street in London and write a report on how business is booming over there. He doesn’t seem to mind writing lies so why not do it again?
Lastly, he has no right to criticize HH Sheikh Mohammed who is a great ruler for this country and is loved by everyone. Locals and Expats alike admire his vision and determination. I can very honestly say that many people wish that their home countries had rulers like HH Sheikh Mohammed. My self included.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/552114-looking-at-the-qbright-sideq-of-dubai#comment-50711

RobbyG wrote:Because of the supply demand issue we currently have between oil authocracies and Russia, the Europeans are trying to get away from this dependancy since Russia shot off Ukraine a winter back and that means Germany doesn't get a feet of gas either at that point!
I merely logical that we seek alternatives and gaining common ground from it by strategically using the resources we have in the Western world.

Chocoholic wrote:SH, you really do need to open your eyes, you are talking about the 19th century which is irrelevant! We are living in the 21st century! These shouldn't happen.

If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem. Stop being so blinkered!