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Most are aware that I worked for the Submarines builders parent company, DW, and had oversight of the investment aspects of this business, though no responsibility, as that resided solely with the Chairmans office.

I took each and every base fact relied on (cash flow, purchases etc) and matched it off against the known ledger entries at that time (2008) - spoke with Herve and finally read his book.

Do I know that he dressed up in a Burkka and disabled a patrol boat - NO, do I believe DW's proposed version, that was dropped at the last moment, that the French Embassy smuggled him out - NO.

Having seen all the evidence, travel details, French Consulate Indian issued passport, hotel receipts, I am inclined to believe Herve's version of events.

How do I evaluate his claims to have been extorted?

The exact same thing happened to me. I have it documented and it is being litigated.

What about this "recording" ?

I am friendly with 2 Dubai lawyers that this happened to, if you want their names I am happy to PM them to you.

Thanks for the direct questions - the more the merrier !

The thing about the "recording" is that it wasn't an actual recording of Herve's interrrogation, but rather a reconstruction he made with a couple of guys in a Chinese restaurant in Florida, that was then provided to multiple (i assume) media outlets to generate publicity in the run up to the book launch (or legal action - you decide).

Had he told them it was a reconstruction, i am sure they would have laughed in his face, and never based any reporting on it, and it would have seriosuly discreditted his version of events in their eyes, wouldn't it?

By the way, my comments regarding a recording i made were a joke!

I'm sorry if you have similar problems with DW or SbS - i've no reason to doubt that you have been wronged, and will fight them in their case/accusations against you.

I take the view on this based on what information is available, and someone who fabricates an interrogation tape and gives it to the press, in my opinion, is more interested in generating publicity for his revenue stream that is a book/film deal, rather than righting any wrongs through the legal process. Herve's appearance here on DF started with plugs for his book, and has continued in that vein ever since.

@ BlueOrb. This is the first I've heard about the Chinese recording. I'm still not finding the exact quote. I thought the sentence in your post was you inserting a bit of humor as it doesn't direct itself to being a statment made by Herve. If this a statement by Herve, where did you get it from. I'm getting confused.

VW, I had absolutely no idea about your background in relation to DW. I wondered about the depth of your posts, but you have now explained it.

Becareful, you may be accused as being a "Herve collaborator". Plotting to bring down DW!!!.

I wish you the very best.

viking-warrior wrote:

melika969 wrote:
Isnt that obvious from my avatar?!

What IS obvious is that you are not adequately familiar with English to critique what I writ (that is a deliberate spelling mistake for you to obfuscate upon to your hearts content)

[ref obfuscate = google it]

"Taking a crayon he writes in block capitals ....." is a literary term referred to as an aside, it implies an action undertaken, or words spoken, as in this instance by the author not the subject to set a scene or paint a mental picture in the head of the reader.
Nothing of what I writ is a personal insult except if you chose to take it as such, and if you do then its an indication of comprehension not intention.

Well VK the passion and articulateness of your written word is damn sexy to read, but does come off a tad bit biased you know. So I wouldn't blame Mel for sensing a certain ambiguity in ur posts.
At the end of the day to all us uninitiated who lack enough info on the subject the prevailing thought is quite simple... Flashy presentations and awesome prototypes a business do not make...ultimately it all boils down to execution! While one doesn't doubt that Herve may have been wronged, there isn't a whole lot to suggest he's a capable entrepreneur. And I think that's where the confusion in this thread stems from. His opponents (on DF) perceive him to simply be opportunistic, while his defenders choose to focus on the shortcomings of the legal system which convicted him. Two entirely separate arguments I would think!

@Bora Bora

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwid ... rida-court

On page 6 i included the above link to an article in The National. The details of the recording not being a recording as such, are in the final few paragraphs.

Basically, and by his own admission, he re-reated his alleged interrogation using two Yemeni guys, making the recording in a Chinese restaurant in Florida.

I then joked about having made a tape with two chinese guys in a Yemeni restaurant (i.e. the other way round).........

Ooooooooooh, Herve, a re-enactment??? I was under the impression that you were in possession of the actual recordings. I'm very disappointed if this is true.

I think the only people who walked away winners were the lawyers - paid in full.

Orbital - Fair enough,

The "Tape" and the circumstances of his reenactment was and still is an area that I have no explanation for, and its only that so much other data was confirmed that I did not just call him a nut job and dedicate time to raising Llama's.

Thing is though, he did not distribute the recording and did actually tell Craig Copetas and Andy Higgins that it was a reenactment and refused to provide it until he could recover the original. Things like that have little or no meaning to the press if it stands in the way of a good story.

Perhaps you can see how, even your, perspective, in this post, gets skewed by a lack of knowlwdge of all the facts. The fact that the press ran the story including the gist of the recording without publishing the disclaimer (and Yes, I have seen his email to them explaining it and their responses) causes you to conclude that if the act of making THIS tape was a fabrication then the content is also a fabrication, then on the balance of probabilities it is ALL therefore a fabrication.

BB - me a collaborator, yoiks ... cue the 'Alo 'Alo quotes all over again

Perhaps one of the original core issues was that I was not a collaborator ???

As to bringing down DW - from where I sit they don't need any help, they are doing a bang up job all on their own

MCL - Completely agree, I think it was Mike Myers in "View from the Top" speaking to trainee air hostesses tells them that she put "the wrong em_PHASS_is is on the wrong SYL_ab_le"



Two wrongs don't make a right, this is so complicated and the alleged wrongs are too messy for the casual observer to make an educated ASSessment ~ which in turn is actually what ticks me off, if you want the facts then ask for them, don't come with a preformed shrinked wrapped opinion from corporate HQ, that's just lazy !

Glad you appreciate the twisting of a wordy tagline - personal peev, people passing of someone else's insight as their own (I mean who actually gives a monkeys what Confucius thinks ?)

@ VW

I don't doubt that Herve was wronged in some respects - and possibly very badly. We all know what goes on in this environment, especially in business, and from what i read, probably frequently at the big companies based in Dubai.

I think Dillon summed it up nicely, when he pointed out that there are failures on Herve's side to deliver what was promised - something the court in the US agreed with.

I also don't know the reality of how daring or dramatic the escape was, or how much of Herve's whole story is fact, and how much is embellished or otherwise, to sell a book or movie.

But when it comes to the "recording", you have to agree it looks a bit silly, and doesn't do the whole "Escape from Dubai" story much good.

@ MCL. Yes, MCL, I agree, his writing is very sexy. I would tend to think it doesn't end there. Altho I don't know what the Alo Alo quotes are. He always had my attention. I've always been a viking fan.

I think - Dillon stopped short of being balanced, there were failures on BOTH sides to deliver whether that be physical product or clarity of direction.

What the US court agreed with was that the contract to deliver one Stingray sub and one Discovery Sub was not fulfilled, only in so much that they were not delivered completed (DW had agreed by email that they could be completed after delivery in Dubai), but the original contracts were never amended to reflect this therefore the court was compelled to rule in DW's favour.

This was a ruling against Seahorse Submarines - a company that folded over 4 years ago, a fact known to DW, its lawyers and the court ...

I agree the recording re-enactment was dumb and does him no favours but he did not run or hide from it, nor was that actually part of his case, it was brought in by DW's lawyers not his.

@blueorb, you seem to be missing some facts, either by choice or because of your lack of understanding, I'm not sure which.
Herve didn't deliver the subs, the Court found in favour of DW. If you read what Herve said in his post, you will read that he was instructed to put them on hold, so yes, they weren't delivered. He was remiss in not getting that documented. The Court made an order against a company which closed in 2006. That tells me a story.

It's nothing new that the tape wasn't an actual recording of the Police interview, Herve never made any secret that he left the phone behind in Dubai.

As for Herve's story being embellished for his book, well all I can say is that I bet if SBS ever wrote a book, it would read the same, only in reverse.
Herve has told me that some parts of his story will be changed in the movie, again not surprising. How many films of 'true' stories are a mirror of the actual story.

I have some knowledge of how ruthless the Emiratis can be when cornered and I have no doubt in my mind that Herve and VW are speaking the truth. I really find it amazing how people can be so uncharitable towards Herve!

@Dillon, I see you are quoting the closing statements from DW's lawyers. Surely for balance it would have been fair to quote the closing arguments from Herve's lawyers too?

I see there has been a couple of other posts while I was writing mine!

@BlueOrb: the National, or any other paper for that matter, is going to print the story that was fed to them from DWs lawyers. You don't see in that article where the court found in favor (or if you prefer, thrown out) of Herve where DWs other charges were concerned. The outcome was published in 3 newspapers: the National, 7Days, both Dubai papers, and the Republican, a local Florida newspaper. All very brief articles about Dubai's "victory" without going into detail as to what that "victory" was based on - breach of contract: failure to deliver, which came as a result of Herve in a trusting way, relied on an email fro SBS agreeing to the delay, and didn't get the contract amended.

I think there are lessons to be learned by readers as to how to protect themselves from being victims of unscrupulous people.

Good news rarely makes for interesting reading. Good bad news does.

Do people really believe what is written in the papers now a days? Except for the Daily Mail, anyway, that's where I get all my information. I've moved on from the Viz.

Gosh! Herve can really generate some interest can't he?

Misery Called Life wrote:

viking-warrior wrote:

melika969 wrote:
Isnt that obvious from my avatar?!

What IS obvious is that you are not adequately familiar with English to critique what I writ (that is a deliberate spelling mistake for you to obfuscate upon to your hearts content)

[ref obfuscate = google it]

"Taking a crayon he writes in block capitals ....." is a literary term referred to as an aside, it implies an action undertaken, or words spoken, as in this instance by the author not the subject to set a scene or paint a mental picture in the head of the reader.
Nothing of what I writ is a personal insult except if you chose to take it as such, and if you do then its an indication of comprehension not intention.

Well VK the passion and articulateness of your written word is damn sexy to read, but does come off a tad bit biased you know.

He sounds more like a condescending prat to me.

Misery Called Life wrote:And I think that's where the confusion in this thread stems from. His opponents (on DF) perceive him to simply be opportunistic, while his defenders choose to focus on the shortcomings of the legal system which convicted him. Two entirely separate arguments I would think!

Good point.
No one is defending the actions of DW, but DW is continually attacked, whilst herve is ignored.

Somehow, DW got off on the charge of Abuse of Process.
But what happened to the claims for Defamation, Fraud, and False Imprisonment.

VW,
I googled "Brownies" but only found a recipe, and something about pre-pubescent girls.

As always Dubai PR twists around the facts.
During my third questionning by the police i was threatened to be tortured if I did not confess, nothing unusual here, but I had set my phone on record, I wanted to keep a record of how non sense were their accusations (hit man, mercenary), so I had the recording in my phone. But in itself it is not evidence and never was, the original could never have been authentificated anyways. When I escaped, i left my phone behind as a beacon to lure the police to think i was in a specific location instead of Fujeirah going away. So the original recording was left behind, it was useless as evidence.
Remember the torture video tape , although it was authentic, what happened? nothing, the sheikh got away with it, so how far do you think a voice recording of threats, and not actual torture, would go.
The re enactment is something i did later, as a material to support a documentary or a movie, producers do it all the time. my re enactment was never published, posted, broadcast, it will eventually in a movie, but i told the only 2 reporters who listened to it to never use it and were well aware it was a re enactment.
DW also tried to claim that i did not escape, well, they still have my passport, so how on earth did get back to the US, in a submarine?
Benjw my claims for defamation and fraud were dismissed by the judge, no one can sue the police for false imprisonment, States are imune.

Well that's me well and truly told off

No one is defending the actions of DW ...

That's because no one can, not even their own internal or external legal team. In order to defend DW you need to have a transparent system of corporate governance in place (kinda like a country that has published rules of law) because a company is not a person and needs to be measured against pre-defined standards.

You are not seriously thinking that DW has anything like that in place are you ?

In response to the question of Abuse of Process, DW "got off" because HJ and his lawyers had 90 minutes to explain to the jury what Abuse of Process actually is and that in this instance it was clearly demonstrable. This they were not able to achieve.

Abuse of Process is typically heard on its own and the US Supreme Court guidance on time allocation to this one subject is 2 weeks in it's own right, however, even though HJ filed his case first, in County Court, DW counterfiled in the higher Federal Court and HJ was forced to take the position of defendant not plaintiff, meaning that his counterclaim was heard after the claims of the plaintiff, leaving precious little time to present and explain a complicated issue.

Defamation is governed in the US by the judge taking the view on whether a person is a public figure or not, and as the judge ruled that HJ was not a public figure, pre-trial he ruled out defamation. (Thats why the most popular place to sue for defamation is the UK, not the US)

False Imprisonment violates the rule on State Doctrine but is inferred in Abuse of Process, so was ruled out pre- trial, in that the elements of false imprisonment could be used and entered into evidence, in support of the Abuse of Process claim.

And finally Fraud on the part of DW was ruled out pre-trial as the judge felt that there was inadequate evidence in support of the charge.

All in all, I thought the judge was fair in his rulings both pre-trial and during, even if I don't agree with his delivery, but he did give HJ's lawyer a rough time and was all kissy kissy with DW's legal hoard.


cross talking Herve !!!! stuff it, post anyways

benwj wrote:No one is defending the actions of DW, but DW is continually attacked, whilst herve is ignored.

Benwa, DW is more than welcome to join DF and give their side of the story.

herve wrote:...... so how on earth did get back to the US, in a submarine?

Of course not, because one was never produced that passed all the tests, was it?

Only jesting, please don't be offended.

Don't think i don't believe everything you say happened, Herve, because even without evidence, i can imagine that you have had a hard time with the locals.

I suppose my point of view is that this comes across (at least to me), as being more about drumming up book sales (and now the movie), rather than tring to redress the balance after what you say happend to you. I have thought that ever since you arrived here at DF, and it's just that so far, all i have seen from you is anti-Dubai sentiment by the bucketload, and book plugs aplenty.

I have provided original documents to support my escape accounts, boat bill of sale, sailing permit, police report at my arrival in India, and would be happy to post them here if anyone asks. pictures of the boat, the rubber boat.

Bora Bora wrote:Benwa, DW is more than welcome to join DF and give their side of the story.

What makes you think they are not already?

-- Thu Mar 03, 2011 7:56 pm --

viking-warrior wrote:Well that's me well and truly told off

No one is defending the actions of DW ...

No one cares to. Thats the point.

One side is saying that Herve is a plonker (or "master manupulator" as preferred by arrogant bigshot lawyers) and you respond with but ... but... DW are a bunch of scum sucking maggots... AND they broke the law!

Now given that both parties were cleared in the US court, where does that leave us?

To talk about herve the "engineer" and how much of an expert he is at building submarines.

Thanks also for the court details regarding the defamation, fraud and false imprisonment.

Yeah, where's the uaekid? Has he taken some time out in Florida after the case?

benwj wrote:

Bora Bora wrote:Benwa, DW is more than welcome to join DF and give their side of the story.

What makes you think they are not already?

Well, if they are here they certainly are putting up a good defense!!!! or are they just bashing Herve??

if anything , I can talk about my escape, and give all the details, how, do's and don't s
for instance I would like to have some feedback on whats going now around Fujeirah, i am sure they multiplied the patrols on the sea and reinforced the procedures for those who want to sail out of the marina.
However, a friday late morning is still the best option to slip out, while everybody is at the moske, no one is watching.
It is so embarrassing that DW tried extensively to prove i did not escape on a friday. They failed.

I have a feeling a lot more people did a shimy and went the sea route way, because since last year GPS trackers on all boats is a must.

Herve, what difference would it make what day you escaped? If you had escaped on a Sunday or Tuesday, or any other day of the week than Friday, would that have changed the fact that you "escaped"? What was the point of the day of your escape?

Clearly, if you had your passport, could get a ticket and board a plane, that would have been your first option!!! But when you are left without a passport, the threat of being imprisoned indefinitely and the fear that you could possibly lose your life as you were threatened, you came up with a plan. I guess they have a problem getting their head around that one.

-- Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:57 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:I have a feeling a lot more people did a shimy and went the sea route way, because since last year GPS trackers on all boats is a must.

Are you sure? Maybe the added security patrol is to keep people from getting into Dubai.

Yes Bora, that s exactly what I told the court, what difference would it make, thursday, Monday whatever.
In my book i did change the timelime for some of my actions to prevent DW to reconstruct my escape and go after whoever might have helped me.
They even fabricated a port immigration document, with a stamp showing that my friend on the sailboat left on Saturday.
But, my arrival in India is documented by Indian police, so when you go backward, cruising speed and all, departure day falls on Friday.
The difference is that I used an aspect of their culture, taking advantage of it, in order to fool them and slip out.
Same with the abaya. I used an aspect of their culture, the fact that they hide their women head to toes, to hide. If an Emirati women turns to be a ghost under the abaya, so could I.

-- Thu Mar 03, 2011 9:21 pm --

Bora Bora wrote:Herve, what difference would it make what day you escaped? If you had escaped on a Sunday or Tuesday, or any other day of the week than Friday, would that have changed the fact that you "escaped"? What was the point of the day of your escape?

Clearly, if you had your passport, could get a ticket and board a plane, that would have been your first option!!! But when you are left without a passport, the threat of being imprisoned indefinitely and the fear that you could possibly lose your life as you were threatened, you came up with a plan. I guess they have a problem getting their head around that one.

-- Thu Mar 03, 2011 8:57 pm --

desertdudeshj wrote:I have a feeling a lot more people did a shimy and went the sea route way, because since last year GPS trackers on all boats is a must.

Are you sure? Maybe the added security patrol is to keep people from getting into Dubai.

May be arabic guys got away to Iran, or Pakistan, but for a westerner the closest destination is India.
No westerner would jump the fence and go to Saudi, or cross the Persian Gulf to Iran, and find himself in worst situation.
The UAE requires now that all boaters carry a beacon so they can be tracked.

Its not a beacon, its a GPS tracker. Well I guess you could call it a becon. Someone I know was stopped by the Coast Guard and warned that if caught next time without one, his boat would be impounded and he would be fined. Any boat over 12 ft long now has to get one upon registering.

Desert Safari Cars have needed this for around four years now.

Although I can see the safetyy aspect of one on a boat aswell, incase of any emergency, bad weather, stranded or lost at sea etc etc. But desert safari cars ? Never could figure the point of that. Costs around 4000dhs and ofcourse you can only get one from RTA anything from outside won't do, even if it is a better model.

Could also be just one more of those money making schemes like salik

desertdudeshj wrote:Its not a beacon, its a GPS tracker. Well I guess you could call it a becon. Someone I know was stopped by the Coast Guard and warned that if caught next time without one, his boat would be impounded and he would be fined. Any boat over 12 ft long now has to get one upon registering.

Desert Safari Cars have needed this for around four years now.

Although I can see the safetyy aspect of one on a boat aswell, incase of any emergency, bad weather, stranded or lost at sea etc etc. But desert safari cars ? Never could figure the point of that. Costs around 4000dhs and ofcourse you can only get one from RTA anything from outside won't do, even if it is a better model.

Could also be just one more of those money making schemes like salik

Excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean by Desert Safari Cars? Capping each word makes me think it's a company, or are you referring to a particular type of car? Wouldn't it be useful for the police to find anyone who may be stuck out in the desert, gets lost, falls ill, or had an accident??

Cars used by tour operators for desert tours. Getting lost in the Dubai desert ( whatever is left of it ) is a joke. Every now and then you do hear about it, but these are regular people who go out on their own and start to panic at the first sign of trouble. And usually the ones who don't even do a basic look up of a Do's and Don'ts for going on such a trip.

And the police finding anyone in the desert is a joke LOOOL ! I on various occasions had to take the police into the desert for various reasons even though they came in perfectly capable cars but refused to drive in. Even pulled out a Dubai police Pathfinder who managed to get stuck on the side of the road while stopping at a roadside cafeteria on the Hatta Dubai highway.

As for being usefull, a lot of rent a cars are also using them as there are a lot of cases of stolen vehicles, specially new SUV's, they refuse to do anything even when they know where the car is as its being tracked live. Its always we'll get to them in our own time which basically means nothing.

You mean I was being tracked when I took that rental Prado dune bashing?