Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

VW, You might need to look at the new rules by the admin. Your insults are not welcome.

I have every right not to believe Herve. he is too biased, just like you. And in my opinions his story has lots of flaws. I have read a lot of his posts before on this forum and I don't even need to go to his book or as you mentioned 'google'! I'm sorry but his show can not fool me.

Please try to learn to respect others opinions.

viking-warrior wrote:

melika969 wrote:The points against Herve is still valid. I dont think using the experession "Herve's submarine project is well underway" has any credit.

Taking a crayon he writes in block capitals ........

The point is, dear heart, that it is HERVE's submarine project, not Dubai World's, that he is reforming, and will be executed with both the benefit of hindsight and the basis of a solid professional team around him, to finally achieve what he initially wanted to do, build leisure subs - not play corporate email ping pong with Dubai Worlds hundreds of adminstrators and auditors all looking to score brownie points off each other.

If you need someone to explain "The Brownies" .......... Google it !

As to your "points" against Herve, you have added nothing but to regurgitate the BS presented to you by a failing conglomerate. Must try harder.

Well thats quite rude isn't it. Also Mel is a "she" not a "he".
He took the job right? We have all had jobs that didn't turn out to be what was promised - too many emails, red tape and too little action - he did get paid didn't he to bounce around emails? Was he free to quit the job when it looked like they weren't serious?

JoeTGF wrote: Also Mel is a "she" not a "he".

Isnt that obvious from my avatar?!

I would have to agree with Joe on the point that since herve has been here he had only one thing on his mind, his day in court and put this whole episode behind him, now he got that so whats the point in another book and a movie ( I wouldn't call it a blockbuster just yet )

JoeTGF wrote:Hello VW.
I am sure you know more about the specifics of the case but I think by your own admission you are extremely biased against DW and therefore while my opinion might be uninformed yours is clearly one-sided. I haven't formed my opinion based on PR or Herve's book - and in fairness there is so much detail that I don't really have an interest in reading it all to challenge you or anyone else - I am just expressing my opinion based on what I have read on this forum and elsewhere. Also with regards to the book - I think Herve mentioned there is another book, movie etc - maybe I didn't get the joke - but for someone that wants to put an event behind them and move with his submarine life it doesn't seem the right course of action.

I hope Herve prospers in his business and if he deserves it he surely will. I wished him the best either way and I will repeat that again.

I am familiar with the time value of money (essentially interest) but why did a powerhouse like DW, which at the time had no shortage of credit from major banks, require financing from Herve and at 10% at that? If 10% was agreed for whatever reason than so be it but I question why they would contest this later - was there an additional 10%? Why did they feel they were being over-charged?

Please try and not take this personally - its clear that its highly sensitive for you presumably because you were treated poorly by DW but I am just asking a question and giving my opinion. I am not DW just because I don't agree or believe Herve's statements.

Hey Joe,

Perhaps you are right, Herve does on occasion make mention of books and films, but on balance perhaps its a function of English being his second language. There is considerable interest in doing a film from within the "industry" but its a tiresome task that seems a long way off at the moment - Herve is not a movie producer, he is an engineer but I suppose if someone turns up on his door step with a chunky cheque and says "I wanna make your movie" I can't imagine many people who would say no, until that day, he is off to do what he knows - build subs.

In 2005/6 and early 2007 Dubai World was indeed not short of credit, locally, but thats not really what is at issue here.

As you probably know. from issues arising out of the Dubal debacle in the late 80's, large Dubai companies were instructed to impose draconian controls over purchasing and finance departments to ensure that nothing was ordered bought or paid for that was unchecked - whilst fantastic for the villages of accountants & clerks employed to perform the checks and balances (and I use the collective term advisedly ) it does not provide for the most efficient procurement cycle, in fact from order to payment you are realistically looking at an 8 - 10 month turn around !

Like you, I did question the 10%, but I assure you, its there in black and white, and subject to legal clearance and/or access to the documents entered into evidence it is available for you to read, more over its authorised by the then chairman, Sultan bin Sulayem.

If any further support of that statment is required, I offer you the verdict of the jury on the charge of breach of fiducuary duty.

As to why was it contested - that you would have to ask the vastly overrated and overpaid lawyers, it looked like an almighty own goal to the jury and everyone else !

I take no offence when the truth is obvious, I was and am still not being treated fairly by DW but my time will come, and perhaps when it is relevant I will share that particular experience in a more measured manner, but for now, its Herve's topic and I will restrict myself to that.

desertdudeshj wrote:I would have to agree with Joe on the point that since herve has been here he had only one thing on his mind, his day in court and put this whole episode behind him, now he got that so whats the point in another book and a movie ( I wouldn't call it a blockbuster just yet )

To tell his story munchkin, just what you were asking him to do a few posts ago. Derrrr

melika969 wrote:

JoeTGF wrote: Also Mel is a "she" not a "he".

Isnt that obvious from my avatar?!

What IS obvious is that you are not adequately familiar with English to critique what I writ (that is a deliberate spelling mistake for you to obfuscate upon to your hearts content)

[ref obfuscate = google it]

"Taking a crayon he writes in block capitals ....." is a literary term referred to as an aside, it implies an action undertaken, or words spoken, as in this instance by the author not the subject to set a scene or paint a mental picture in the head of the reader.


This is just the type of garbage that caused me stay quiet on this forum nearly 3 months ago and you know what, distance does not make the heart grow fonder.

I DO AGREE, that constant ranting about how crap Dubai is or was is tiresome, but when it is relevant and topical it has a place, like now, the opinion of the Dubai Media Council is NOT gospel - furthermore I find it all the more hypocritical coming ESPECIALLY from someone who has first hand experience of living in Iran as you do - it beggars belief that you would engage in the self same activities that you and the majority of your own population despise about your own government.

Now thats something to put a next too.

Nothing of what I writ is a personal insult except if you chose to take it as such, and if you do then its an indication of comprehension not intention.

VW, please don't be so harsh on Mel. She is a sweet girl and wouldn't wish any harm to Herve or anyone else for that matter. People are just curious, They don't know Herve like you do, or the facts around Dubai World and their wrong doings.

BM, I do understand, and have never had cause to lock and load one against Mel, she has always appeared to be "generally" understanding on any subject that you care to mention, but these forums permit people to attempt to opine on subjects outside of their sphere of knowledge, and get uppity about that opinion to boot !

As you know, if people are curious about something, they can always ask (it's not the Dubai way) but let's try to change that.

Question - Answer

I tried by putting up the charges and the verdicts and who returned them, only to be met with opinion. There is no opinion or spin applicable.

Herve was charged in Dubai with Fraud (embezzlement) and found Guilty. Fact.

Herve was charged in Florida with Fraud (fraudulent misrepresentation) (which incidentally has a far lower burden of proof than embezzlement) and was found Not Guilty. Fact.

How on God's green earth can that be a vindication of Dubai World and the Dubai Police ?

That is my question.

Can anyone please respond. Not with a personal opinion but a fact ?

VW, all your posts are very personal towards me. First you commented on my IQ, then my English fluency, after that you mentioned I was being hypocrite, and now I should not be allowed to have opinions.

Obviously you can’t practice what you preach.

I dont understand, if you have all the facts sorted out why do you still need to change others personal opinions on DF?

You put up the charges and verdicts. Some people asked questions, which you found BS. So give it a rest.

Mel, VW is obviously very passionate in his opinions, more than meets the eye, I suspect. Please don't take it personally Mel!

VW and BM were enemies in the early days Mel, I now realise I was wrong. VW and Herve have my respect.

^^^BM, you are very sweet.

melika969 wrote:Ambassador should have invited Mr George to the forums, so we can hear their side of story too. I’m sure in their version, Herve miserably failed.

Anyway I wish luck to DW, I don’t like Middle East enemies!

"Losing an illusion makes you wiser than finding a truth."


Herein we find a greater truth than the ignorance of the messenger, that you would choose to lose the illusion of freedom than to acknowledge the fact and be fearful of the same, says more about you than I ever could, yet in part serves to explain your inherent contradictions.

Go forth, relieve the world of its' illusions and paste it over with your version of the truth, no wait ... your people already did that.

Hows that system working for you ? Good ?


However I did notice that you chose not to state your facts re: the validation of the fraud charge ? Too busy obfuscating perhaps ?

^^^I don't think commenting on my people does any good for you!

Stop it VW. you aren't furthering your cause by giving Mel a hard time.

Why don't you come clean with your story? No-one will mind you taking over Herve's topic, I bet Herve won't. You have spoken up for him enough. Maybe it's your turn now?

Please don't be so defensive VW, tell DF your story, if you are able that is?

Not everyone is against you and Herve, you know! For what it's worth, I think you are both heros.

SBS, head of DW, for the most part no longer exists (SBS that is!). He has been stripped of all the positions he held in government companies. He is not allowed to travel. DW is limping along. This is the result of one man bringing down companies and expats that he used and eventually set up for his own gain, all of who have either been ruined or arrested.

Herve had the good sense to cover himself with documentation, whereas those expats who worked for DW or under its umbrella, got screwed big time, functioned on "blind faith" (might as well throw in being misguided by their salary and perks), couldn't cover themselves when the time came when they were arrested and charged with corruption and still linger in jail or in Dubai. They are trying to get justice having to defend themselves in Dubai forced to use lawyers that for all intent and purposes work for the government, the prosecutor and DW's lawyers and up against judges who work for the government. Herve probably had a few of the same charges thrown at him.

How anyone who can give DW any credibility and/or the benefit of doubt would amaze me.

VW, apparently you have a story to tell, and as Herve harbor a great deal of anger, but please don't attack anyone because they don't agree, or have a different opinion, especially Mel. She is very dear to me and doesn't deserve your words.

[quote="viking-warrior"]

(1) Breach of Contract - failure to deliver One Stingray submarine in condition described in contract -
JUDGE ruled in summary judgement - Yes in favour of plaintiff

(2) Breach of Contract - failure to deliver One Discovery submarine in condition described in contract
- JUDGE ruled in summary judgement - Yes in favour of plaintiff

(8) Abuse of Process - in that Plaintiff (Dubai World, Nakheel, Palm Marine & Exomos) did unduly influence or cause the due process of law in Dubai to be used for some purpose other than that for which it specifically exists -
JURY ruled - NO in favour of Plaintiff, Dubai World [quote]


Ok, in the absence of any answer from anyone, "little Blue Orb" will assume the following:



No submarines have been sold or are in either private or commercial operation. A prototype (at least one) exists, and it has been or is undergoing sea trials which may or may not be concluded.





I don't see the need for the attacks from either Herve himself or his mate VW (who obviously has a massive grudge with Dubai World). I asked a sensible question, and have had no answer.

I'm prepared to accept that if DW were signing off payments to Seahorse Submarines, and had full knowledge that Herve was adding a mark up onto the bill, and there was total transparency, then it their own fault, and he shouldn't have any case to answer.


However, out of the 8 charges, they won 3, as quoted above from VW.

The most interesting, if you like, is number 8 - Abuse of process. They won this, and so how Herve can claim that the justice system here has been shown up to be corrupt is beyond me, because the US court says there was no abuse of process.


We probably all have stories to tell about the justice system / alleged corruption here. Me included - something whihc encroached into my life in a major way in the last six months, and caused a great deal of distress.

But that's how it is here. It's a developing country. 40 years ago people who now drive Landcruisers were riding camels, for God's sake.

It doesn't make it right, but it's a fact. the country (and many other arab countries) have a long way to go to get to the standards of "the West", and i think with the changes ringing out across the region now, the process is more than likely underway. But it's still going to take a bit more time.

Everyone who comes here, especially to Dubai, is coming here to make money, be it the Indian labourer, Phillipina secretary, British manager or French/American submarine builder. How Dubai is, is widely reported across the internet, and everyone coming here is aware of that - especially businessmen. In coming here, especially setting up a business working with locals, indeed, part of the government circle of companies, people should be aware that things are not done in the "normal" manner, as happens in the West, and should adapt accordingly.


I've been on this forum for a good time now, although i'm more of a lurker than a poster. But please have the courtesy to respect my opinions and my questioning when it is valid.

I've seen all the recent carry ons with various members, attacks, ganging up, arguments, insults, etc, and have purposely not even tried to get involved, as it's not my idea of fun on the net.

Just because i question things, doesn't make me wrong, and doesn't give anyone the right to start with insults, and try to belittle me with snide digs.

For the record, i do think that now (and i mean now, not previoiusly), this whole thing is about building the Book and Film up to be the source of revenue, and not the manufacture of subs. That's pretty evident to me. Good luck, Herve. And i really mean it. I have no axe to grind with you, so please keep your insults to yourself, and try to engage in conversation or discussion about this.

This is probably my longest post on here! And it took a while......

And very well Said BlueOrb.

Thank you!

Blueorb, With respect, just because you haven't been given an answer to your question about how many submarines have been sold, don't asume that it's none. Herve's business wasn't just about submarines anyway.

Herve and VW have every right to feel the way they do about Dubai. What has happened to them is very very wrong. I'm afraid you will have to allow them there curt replies.

You can't compare what happened to you and your wife to what they have gone through. I think you may have a different view of Dubai if you had been convicted and sentenced in your absence. As Herve once pointed out, this hasn't even happened to Bin Laden.

Curt replies would be one thing, but both were dismissive to the point of being just rude.

Just because i don't post often gives no one the right to say "who is he anyway?"

I could say the same about both of them. Who are they? Why are they better than me? do they know me?

I've no wish to read the book - not for any other reason than it is the account from one side. A better book would be by a third party, who spoke to both sides, and tried to piece the story together from both perspectives, telling the whole story.

I have no doubt that things may well have gone on that were a bit iffy (to say the least), but when the story is only coming from one side, with a great deal of (probably deserved) bitterness, then it does make you question whether the whole story is being portrayed accurately or not, that's all.

-- Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:16 pm --

http://www.thenational.ae/news/worldwid ... rida-court

Interesting snippet from the above article:

".......Dubai World says Mr Jaubert's continuous attempts at publicity culminating in his 2009 lawsuit left them no other option but to counter-sue.

In particular, an audio recording of his alleged interrogation by Dubai Police led several prominent US and European papers to publish stories about Mr Jaubert's claims of abuse.

In cross-examination Mr Jaubert admitted that he created the recording, which he called a "re-enactment" at a Chinese restaurant in Florida, with two Yemeni men playing the roles of the interrogators......."

Now that's funny. :LOL:

Bethsmum wrote:You can't compare what happened to you and your wife to what they have gone through. I think you may have a different view of Dubai if you had been convicted and sentenced in your absence. As Herve once pointed out, this hasn't even happened to Bin Laden.

Did I miss something? His wife?

I know someone (an expat) who worked for a now defunct company under the DW umbrella. From day one he always stayed one step ahead and had SMS sign off on EVERYTHING. One of the rules he always lived by: CYOA (and it doesn't stand for Chose Your Own Adventure!!). Never made a move without SBS approving it, regardless if the matter came directly from SBS or someone's elses suggestion and SBS wanted it to be executed. He was investigated and came out spanking clean, but it still had/has its repercussions on his life. Some would have come out of it bitter, and some not. He isn't because he understands that that is the way Dubai operates. If he didn't protect himself and wasn't able to prove that he did not participate or act alone in several situations, God only knows where and what his situation would be today.

Having said that, why is it that DW experienced so much corruption, embezzlement, theft, etc., while it's "competition" was never in the spotlight for questionable activities??

At the end of the day only one person can and should be responsible for what happened at DW. When you spread yourself thin sitting at the top of numerous companies and insisting that he "run" those companies, can't read or understand a financial statement or a P&L statement, and being part of the kickbacks and embezzlement, focusing on the many hotels that he was building for himself from that money, something has to give. Even if the economy didn't take a dive, it would have all come out sooner or later, but the same people, mostly expats would have been subjected to being the scapegoats and the same non-expats would have been given a pass. So it goes...........

Bora Bora wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:You can't compare what happened to you and your wife to what they have gone through. I think you may have a different view of Dubai if you had been convicted and sentenced in your absence. As Herve once pointed out, this hasn't even happened to Bin Laden.

Did I miss something? His wife?

I think i wrote "life", rather than wife!

And as i didn't expand on any details (and nor will I), it can't be said that it cannot be compared to what Herve and his family went through. For all anyone knows, it could be 100 times worse.

It's over now, and it has been put down to "That's what life is like here". I'm a realist, and know what can happen in a country like this, that would not happen elsewhere. It doesn't make it right, but you have deal with it and move on.

-- Thu Mar 03, 2011 1:42 pm --

Of course, my big mistake was making the tape of me and two chinese guys in that Yemeni restaurant.....looking back, that was never going to work :LOL:

A restaurant?? I'll leave it at that.

So from sketches of an original concept, produced by Leonardo da Vinci around 500 Years ago and the first working model of a Submarine produced by Cornelius van Drebbel around 100 Years later in 1620, Submarines have been evolving for the last 400 Years or so into the modern day piece of kit we know them as, so I think we can safely say that the technology already exists, and the component parts already in production around the world to enable a qualified engineer to knock one of these ‘Life support technology’ devices together.

It then took the CEO of a business enterprise in Dubai, with the benefit of a Business Incubator environment, and two existing submarine prototypes, was it 5 Years? And was it $30,000,000 did I read somewhere? To Monumentally fail to deliver, on two counts, the commercial product he was contracted to, and agreed to deliver.

So now we have the details and none of them I might add came from DW, I think Herve should get a job with one of the many recreational submarine manufacturers already out there and learn how to do it properly before he starts to build another and get himself into difficulties again.

http://www.uboatworx.nl/Video.dhtml

http://www.seamagine.com/videos.html

Here are two I found in t’internet just now to help you along.

It is my considered opinion that Herve, bless his cotton socks, is not the survivor nor the victim in this case and I would concur with the sentiments of Jon Cederberg;

During closing arguments Monday, Dubai World attorneys characterized Jaubert as a "master manipulator" who was out to siphon millions of dollars in company money.

"Mr. Jaubert was not the master designer and builder of submarines that he said he was," insisted Los Angeles attorney Jon Cederberg, representing Dubai World Corp. "The only thing he designed and built ... was a web of lies, half-truths and misrepresentations that allowed him to get property he was not entitled to and ... a position he didn't deserve."

Good luck in your future ventures Herve, I mean that sincerely.

BlueOrb wrote:In cross-examination Mr Jaubert admitted that he created the recording, which he called a "re-enactment" at a Chinese restaurant in Florida, with two Yemeni men playing the roles of the interrogators......."

Now that's funny. :LOL:

I was wondering why the court would not admit such a crucial piece of evidence ?

And $30 million I think you can buy an old navy sub for that much money. Wait you can buy a whole fleet of them for that much

http://www.maritimesales.com/PI12.htm

Dillon, the "failure to deliver" was in regard to two subs, both working and delivered in 2004 from Seahorse Subs in Florida (will post videos later if required) - nothing to do with development or production in Dubai.

Cederberg has less than a dazzling intellect, one that thinks that 8 track tape recorders are state of the art technology and is amazed that no one knows where to buy one. Its in the transcripts.

What you need to be focusing on about is Herve's loss of the Abuse of Process charge.

Find out what that is, understand the dificulties that surround the Law of Nations and statutes that protect State Doctrine, then come back with a reasoned argument as to why 90 minutes is perhaps not long enough to present a case with respect to it.

For someone who is clearly intelligent it is doubly frustrating to read your opinion, surely you know that analysis based on incomplete data will never stack up and will inevitably throw out spurious and incorrect results.

That DW allegedly spent $30million on the Exomos facility has nothing to do with anything, they still have it (the facility and all the equipment) so why not re-use it or sell it off, a loss is only a loss if you choose to realise it in your accounts, and even then, only after taking into account the 2005 - 2008 amortisation of the original investment.

I never understood why DW did not just rent a warehouse somewhere, but SbS was adamant that this was to be built, so it was. Herve would have been happy working from some shack in Al Quooz, go figure.

However in the end, if only one good thing comes of this - then I hope that it is this :

Everyone who works for a UAE owned or operated business should be reminded every day, from employee to entrepeneur, it's your butt that is on the line each and every day.

Every email you send, be it on corporate mail or public access, every decision made will be reassessed and every penny you spend be it in your professional life or personal; is being saved or documented, and can and will be used against you in the future once you leave your employment.

Finally, to cap it off, the people performing the analysis and presenting their findings will be the cheapest sub standard grunts that money can find ~ passing flawed analysis on to lawyers with tongues so twisted they could uncork a bottle, who in turn, via a court case, corporate email, a PR agency or just word of mouth put out a "story" so removed from the original facts as to defy belief, to publish and promote their public opinions that unfortunately forums such as this adopt as gospel.

Only a few people such as BM & BB, took the time to dig deeper than the 7Days to find out whats really behind this story in particular, and don't you find their change of perspective at least a little intriguing ?

desertdudeshj wrote:

BlueOrb wrote:In cross-examination Mr Jaubert admitted that he created the recording, which he called a "re-enactment" at a Chinese restaurant in Florida, with two Yemeni men playing the roles of the interrogators......."

Now that's funny. :LOL:

Can you direct me to the post you quoted above. One of three things happened here: (1) I missed something, (3) BlueOrb deleted that post or (3) someone manipulated a post.

viking-warrior wrote:Only a few people such as BM & BB, took the time to dig deeper than the 7Days to find out whats really behind this story in particular, and don't you find their change of perspective at least a little intriguing ?

Another question, then, for which i will no doubt be criticised again, but i'll ask it anyway.....

In terms of digging deeper, was this accomplished by research here in the UAE or on the net, or by reading Herve's book and speaking with him? Because the latter is not digging deeper - it's just getting more of the same, one-sided picture of what has gone on.

-- Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:09 pm --

Bora Bora wrote:

desertdudeshj wrote:

BlueOrb wrote:In cross-examination Mr Jaubert admitted that he created the recording, which he called a "re-enactment" at a Chinese restaurant in Florida, with two Yemeni men playing the roles of the interrogators......."

Now that's funny. :LOL:

Can you direct me to the post you quoted above. One of three things happened here: (1) I missed something, (3) BlueOrb deleted that post or (3) someone manipulated a post.

6th post from the top, on this page (page 6). Right at the end.

^^^^Digging deeper also means looking at past performance of DW, knowing people who have been at the end of DWs stick and how some people who were heavily involved in bringing DW down got a pass on crimes by virtue of their nationality.

Clearly one can not take a one-sided statement as truth, nor can you take a two party statement as truth. There will always be some inconsistencies, omissions, exaggeration, and sometimes out and out lies. It is up to one to determine if there is more truth than lies or vice versa and from which side. You know what they say about the truth: it has three sides, in this case it's his, theirs, and the truth.

I also think that SBS being removed speaks volumes. Clearly the blame, without legal repercussion (to date anyway), fell to the person responsible. Unfortunately he experienced a bit of discomfort for his role in the entire debacle. It's also unfortunate that he is a person without a conscious. Today, he merely "exists".