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I am, if nothing else, saddened, by all the hatred shown in various forums towards Jews and Arabs. Some people dress up their hatred with the gift of gab, or deny their hate, or show full blown hatred towards one or the other. Taking a "side" isn't wrong if you voice your opinion, but do so without the hatred. It's pretty much the same as if someone yells at you, you miss their point, but if they talk to you, you hear their point, whether you agree or not.

Hatred is like a cancer. It will spread within you and eventually you will look at other things with hate. It will eat away at you and all the while you are becoming a miserable individual.

There are rights and wrongs by both sides - Jews, and I am talking about Israel, and Arabs, for the most part Palestine. Unfortunately some people on DF see it to be one sided. Interesting to see some who also harbor hatred and blame towards the UK and US for "interfering". Did you every stop to think what would have happened and what would be happening if the UK, US and other countries didn't "interfere"?

I applaude that young Jewish/American boy that stood up and denounced what Israel is doing (video in Politics forum). Why don't one of you stand up and do the same if you have half he courage that boy had? He went to the source - from America to Israel to take a stand. Why don't any of you go to Israel and Palestine and take a stand on the land of the those you support or hate. Spreading hatred on a forum doesn't do anything to help your "cause", whether it be Israel or Palestine.

For the lack of a better word: if you are so "passionate" about the things you feel are so wrong, go do something about it. Don't sit on a forum, or sit around having shisha or tea talking about it - get out there and do something about it and stop being a coward because talking about it isn't going to change anything. If you aren't willing to get out there and actually do something, then shut up and keep your hatred to yourself. If you want to "discuss" or "debate" do so without the hatred.

I don't disagree with you.

I understand you believe I am an anti-semite and hate Jews. However, I have more 'liberal' political views than the American Jewish guy you refer to when it comes to the Israeli occupation (he says he wants full right of return, for example).

What I do hate, is deliberate manipulation of facts and the smearing of opponents. That is reprehensible. I hate injustice even more - where people are hurt or denied rights, but on-line, the distortion of facts and 'smoke and mirror' smear tactics are disgu.sting.

By all means, take sides - argue the facts and give your views. But the hate spewed against Muslims on this forum by far exceeds the hate spewed against Jews (Sym is the most extreme in his views), but the casual Islamophobia of FD, eh and now herve (and the comic Islamophobia of BM) is more pernicious. Fortnuately their hatred can easily be ignored.

Imagining opponents of Israeli crimes are anti-Semites and hating them for this imagined crime is rather sad, IMO. That is shameful - for I'm sure that the boy in the video is also viewed as an anti-Semite for standing up for Palestinians against Israeli crimes.

Cheers,
Shafique

Poor Shafique, he really can't help himself.

Bora writes a post about so much hatred and Shafique comes back with

But the hate spewed against Muslims on this forum by far exceeds the hate spewed against Jews (Sym is the most extreme in his views), but the casual Islamophobia of FD, eh and now herve (and the comic Islamophobia of BM) is more pernicious.

So you think EH, Herve and me are more harmful than you, Sym and DDS?

How pathetic. It's playground stuff at best.

Cannot help getting sarcastic over this, but yeah people calling to exterminate all jews, compare jews with nazi's etc., are more harmfull or are more hatred filled then people having serious trouble with sharia.

Whatever!

get out there and do something about it and stop being a coward because talking about it isn't going to change anything.

Talking and protesting only do good in native country where you reside, on international matters only nuclear headed missiles and bombs do the business.LOL.

-- Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:23 pm --

my question to Bora...Why can't America, the strongest man on the earth, cannot change the justice system of the earth even though millions of Americans protest their goverment and the rule of international law...

What's funny is no one wants to provide clear, workable definitions of Islamophobia.

What's clear is that both FD and I recognize actual instances of Islamophobia. For instance, if someone wrote:

The Muslims, especially, are violent, and the whole world is now suffering from this attitude. It has therefore become aggressive and dangerous. It has given birth to prejudice, schizophrenia, hypocrisy, double talk, double standards, double think, created a split between “us” and “them”, and resulted in dividing mankind into poor and rich, weak and strong, and into master and slave.

...

But one would like to ask in this connection where does this division of the world’s peoples into Evil and Good come from? The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Muslim doctrine that divides humanity into those who are believers and those who are unbelievers.

This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

Both FD and I would say is clearly Islamophobic or something we don't condone.

Unfortunately, however, this quote was never produced nor defended by either of us.

So, the irony is that someone claims they are against name calling and irrational hatred when that person has shown that he and his few companions are nothing more than name callers - and, yes, people who repeat good old fashioned Jew hatred.

But hey, I challenge anyone who calls me an 'Islamophobe' but denies the above quote as antisemitic to find something I've said that has been worse.

I believe I said something - off the cuff, in response to someone else - about Muslims historically making temporary treaties because they find themselves weaker than their adversaries that I posited was a historical fact as someone claiming was 'Islamophobic'.

Why not treat 'Islamophobia' (something I consider a myth) and antisemitism equally?

Then again, I don't recall calling Muslims 'especially violent' or claiming Muslims are responsible for divisions in the world, which are basically widely repeated Nazi talking points, or so I am told, so I expect more obfuscation and name calling.

event horizon wrote:I believe I said something - off the cuff, in response to someone else - about Muslims historically making temporary treaties because they find themselves weaker than their adversaries that I posited was a historical fact as someone claiming was 'Islamophobic'.

I remember. After that I opened a thread with the question who agrees with the following quote:

http://www.dubaiforums.com/dubai-politics-talk/sad-but-not-surprised-british-jews-islamic-racism-t45114.html#p364902

The Muslim society has lost the ability of strategic thinking, which Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) exemplified by compromising on several points with the enemy when he signed the Treaty of Hudaibia, said leading American Muslim, Shaikh Hamza Yousuf, at a lecture on Monday.

Elaborating his point, Shaikh Hamza Yousuf said, “There are times when you have to live like a sheep in order to live in the future like a lion.”

Not one Muslim poster disagreed with above quote, although specifically asked. In the mean time I was branded as an "Islamaphobe" and a loon and whatever for daring to ask the question, no really!

The trouble is, many people can't see further than labels, Jews, Arabs, Brits, Americans etc - are we all not HUMAN BEINGS at the end of the day? We're all made of the same stuff, no matter what colour, creed or religion you are!

If everyone ditched the labels, then there would be no issues, because it's all just people at the end of the day.

Why do people call on America to do something? Why should they? Why don't the Arab nations go and assist their 'brothers'? They never have, never will.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

event horizon wrote:I believe I said something - off the cuff, in response to someone else - about Muslims historically making temporary treaties because they find themselves weaker than their adversaries that I posited was a historical fact as someone claiming was 'Islamophobic'.

I remember. After that I opened a thread with the question who agrees with the following quote:

http://www.dubaiforums.com/dubai-politics-talk/sad-but-not-surprised-british-jews-islamic-racism-t45114.html#p364902

The Muslim society has lost the ability of strategic thinking, which Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) exemplified by compromising on several points with the enemy when he signed the Treaty of Hudaibia, said leading American Muslim, Shaikh Hamza Yousuf, at a lecture on Monday.

Elaborating his point, Shaikh Hamza Yousuf said, “There are times when you have to live like a sheep in order to live in the future like a lion.”

Not one Muslim poster disagreed with above quote, although specifically asked. In the mean time I was branded as an "Islamaphobe" and a loon and whatever for daring to ask the question, no really!

I think I should have just called Islam especially violent and blamed it for social disorders the world over - claiming this was a demonstrable fact - and been done with it.

I'm sure no one, least of all the victim merchants, would have labelled my comments as hateful and intolerant.

Why do people call on America to do something? Why should they? Why don't the Arab nations go and assist their 'brothers'? They never have, never will.

Remember what I said..on international politics, its not human virtues or universal values that do the business, it is rather nuclear head, war planes and bombs..That's what we call peace..Allright got that?
Currently muslims cannot talk to their western brothers becouse they don't have them themselves..
Justice..nooo justice not...yeah yeah it's justice..LOL.

Berrin wrote:my question to Bora...Why can't America, the strongest man on the earth, cannot change the justice system of the earth even though millions of Americans protest their goverment and the rule of international law...

Why should it be left to America? The "earth" does not come under the perview of America. If America interferes - wrong, if America doesn't interfere - wrong. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. Why should America be the policeman, politician and peacemaker of the world? The US and other countries have sacrificed too many [insert country - in my case American- ]lives trying to "help" countries to be part of the international community, yet those countries still remain corrupt. Once America and other countries get their head wrapped around the fact that these countries that they "assist" in democracy fail due to the fact that these countries function on a tribal mentality, then they may leave the tribes to fix their own country, or stay as they are.

"Millions" is an exaggeration of how many "protest" their government, as I'm assuming you are referring to the US government, but there are millions who don't agree with it - specifically the way politicians run government. America took its "system" from the UK. Both have a great government system, abused by those who can abuse it. Those in seats of power can take away from it, alter it, only because they are in a position that allow them to.

As Chocs said, let the Arab countries, which there are a number of, solve the problems in the Middle East rather than sit on their hands and do nothing. Protests against government are taking place in the Middle East, not in the US.

And it's so nice to see the fingerpointing and justifying continues. Sorry, but I don't have enough dummies to hand out to everyone.

If all our nations pulled out of the ME countries and left them to it, then what would happen? Mass destruction. Personally I think we should all just leave them to it. We've lost far too many of our own, and for what?

i think that boy probably has a jewish or palestinian gf and thats why he went from american to israel!

rudeboy wrote:i think that boy probably has a jewish or palestinian gf and thats why he went from american to israel!

Israelis hold both the US and Israeli passports. It's their birth right.

Bora Bora wrote:

rudeboy wrote:i think that boy probably has a jewish or palestinian gf and thats why he went from american to israel!

Israelis hold both the US and Israeli passports. It's their birth right.

wwhahahahahahaaay someone pop open the champagne than!!!

Glad to see everybody saw this an opputunity to start their finger pointing or trying to justify their "past actions"...again, and mostly from the usual suspects. I think the whole essence of this thread was missed.

desertdudeshj wrote:Glad to see everybody saw this an opputunity to start their finger pointing or trying to justify their "past actions"...again, and mostly from the usual suspects. I think the whole essence of this thread was missed.

Do you think it was missed or just ignored?? Or an opportunity to do what you and I noticed: point and justify.

Some are so deep in their hatred, or their hatred has overtaken their lives that they just can't see it. More like a second skin for them.

or at least those who carry all that hatred towards Muslims and the Middle east can save us and themselves the effort and get the heck out of here, go home, home is good...

if someone have a big problem with Arabs and Muslims, why are they living in an Arabic/ Muslim country, and a member in forum named "DUBAIforums", which should talk about Dubai in a way....

I bet if the of the members here who keeps bla bla about Arabs and Muslims can say half what he says here in public, but we CAN.

Mahmoud04 wrote:or at least those who carry all that hatred towards Muslims and the Middle east can save us and themselves the effort and get the heck out of here, go home, home is good...

if someone have a big problem with Arabs and Muslims, why are they living in an Arabic/ Muslim country, and a member in forum named "DUBAIforums", which should talk about Dubai in a way....

I bet if the of the members here who keeps bla bla about Arabs and Muslims can say half what he says here in public, but we CAN.

Is that to say that those who carry all that hate towards Jews can continue - business as usual? Dubaiforums is not exclusive to any one nationality or religion Mahmoud.

If you want to share your hatred with people who hate Jews, I'm sure you can find plenty of forums where you can share your thoughts with them.

I didn't say that those who carry hate towards Jews can continue, neither did say it is exclusive, but its not of course for badmouthing Arabs and Muslims (please don't tell me there is others who badmouth others, not my point)

but I am wondering if someone don't like watching football why the heck would he book a ticket in a football match and keep telling everyone that its a bad game !!!

And I don't remember I mentioned before that I hate Jew ?) , can u remind me when or where did i do that?
I would strongly recommend ur advice to those who hate Arabs and Muslims, again home is good go home...

Mahmoud04 wrote:I didn't say that those who carry hate towards Jews can continue, neither did say it is exclusive, but its not of course for badmouthing Arabs and Muslims (please don't tell me there is others who badmouth others, not my point)

but I am wondering if someone don't like watching football why the heck would he book a ticket in a football match and keep telling everyone that its a bad game !!!

And I don't remember I mentioned before that I hate Jew ?) , can u remind me when or where did i do that?
I would strongly recommend ur advice to those who hate Arabs and Muslims, again home is good go home...

Sorry, I stand corrected. You just make jokes about blowing up (Coptic?) churches.

Go home? The same could be said for Muslims who go to western countries, get a resident visa or the passport and who have the freedom to express their hatred towards the way the government doesn't do enough to cater to their beliefs, or detest the way westerners behave, live, dress, etc. There are many Americans who would like to see Muslims go back home, but they won't go back home because they know that they wouldn't enjoy the freedoms they do in the west, or have the opportunities that "home" didn't present, they knew if they worked they could make money and depending on how hard you worked, you could make alot of money. Then you have those who go on a visit visa (US) and would rather stay illegally than go back. They stay in the west because, bottom line, they have a better life. I'm not Muslim bashing Mahmoud, just telling you like it is.

Expats who come to Dubai don't plan to live in the country forever. They know that there will be a time to go back home, or move on. Back in the day people came to Dubai because it gave them an opportunity to make money, which in most cases afforded them to purchase a home back home. Today they come for different reasons. It's not just about money any more. One reason is that there was an opportunity to have a job during a time where the economy, worldwide, has taken a dip and they had to go where to job was.

The difference is Dubai is temporary for expats, whereas western countries become permanent for Muslims.

Sorry, I stand corrected. You just make jokes about blowing up (Coptic?) churches.

give me a break it was for EH, and it is far away off subject regarding the Jew, and doesn't say I said I hate anyone, try again... BTW check what Coptic means and don't run after the flow...

Bora when we are speaking about something, why are you taking me all the way to Muslims who go to western countries etc... and I said it before same approach apply to all, so don't make a disagreement out of nothing please.. and that is not near at all to what we are talking about here in DF... please ...

all what you are saying above is a story applies to all of the few millions who lives in the MENA, but what doesn't apply on all of them is that much of hatred and hate towards Muslims and Arabs, I have many western friends who lives/left here before and they understand and respect that, so do you, right? I am talking about those who can't stand Muslims or Arabs, again home is goooooood go home....

give me a break it was for EH

You make a joke about blowing up Churches and killing Christians and then whine about people bad mouthing Muslims?

The only poeople who have wished death to anyone, on this forum, are Muslims.

Mahmoud04 wrote:

Sorry, I stand corrected. You just make jokes about blowing up (Coptic?) churches.

give me a break it was for EH, and it is far away off subject regarding the Jew, and doesn't say I said I hate anyone, try again... BTW check what Coptic means and don't run after the flow...

Bora when we are speaking about something, why are you taking me all the way to Muslims who go to western countries etc... and I said it before same approach apply to all, so don't make a disagreement out of nothing please.. and that is not near at all to what we are talking about here in DF... please ...

all what you are saying above is a story applies to all of the few millions who lives in the MENA, but what doesn't apply on all of them is that much of hatred and hate towards Muslims and Arabs, I have many western friends who lives/left here before and they understand and respect that, so do you, right? I am talking about those who can't stand Muslims or Arabs, again home is goooooood go home....

I'm talking about Muslims and western countries in the same context that you are talking about expats and Muslims. If you don't like what you see then "go home".

There are many Muslims living in the US who hate Americans, but they continue to stay on. As for those "haters" of Muslim/Islam on DF, and I'm sure you are referring to EH and FD, they don't live in Dubai - or the Middle East for that matter, I'm sure.

If one is a good person, they respect all religions. They don't have to agree with them, but should respect them. For those who "hate" Islam, I'm sure it is directed to terrorists/jihadists who have brought a different kind of "war" that expands across the globe.

Bora Bora wrote: As for those "haters" of Muslim/Islam on DF, and I'm sure you are referring to EH and FD

Give me (one) quote(s) which make you think this. I think the way Islam is practiced today in many parts of the world in very cumbersome and worrying. I think the Arab world is underdeveloped in regards to intellectual property. I think Moroccans in Holland, which happen to be Muslim, are on a whole not good for Dutch society. I am more positive about Turks. When in Dubai I am fully respectfull to local customs. In Holland when I host Muslims I am more than understanding with regards to prayer times and food. I start to have problems when they start to make demands. I also donot like it when they wash their feed in the sink, but thats probably a personal thing. I recently took my son from school, because the head of the school refused to shake my hand, she is jewish. Please quote me where you think I hate Muslims/Arabs.

FD, I used that as an example as you have been referred numerous times by others as being Islamophobic. It is not my personal opinion of you and I'm surprised that you took it that way. I've never critized your comments because you have always delivered them with intelligence and with no hatred.

I apologize if you took it the wrong way.

Bora Bora wrote:FD, I used that as an example as you have been referred numerous times by others as being Islamophobic. It is not my personal opinion of you and I'm surprised that you took it that way. I've never critized your comments because you have always delivered them with intelligence and with no hatred.

I apologize if you took it the wrong way.

The '"you" is a plural and not directly towards you (the singular BB). I can see the confusion as I posted it as a reply to your (BB's) quote.