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1.Switzerland: New Laws Proposed for Legal Prostitution

... ZURICH - Local officials have decided that this city's expanding legal s3x industry needs to be better organized.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20110603/w ... plcmxhbmRu

Now observe the sharp rise in more abandoned children, STD's and divorce rates.

2. Students consider prostitution to pay for school?

....One in three university students in the German capital would consider sex work as a means to finance their education, a study from the Berlin Studies Center said on Wednesday...... The study found some 4 percent of the 3,200 Berlin students surveyed said they had already done some form of sex work, which includes prostitution, erotic dancing and Internet shows......

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110518/od_ ... VudHNjb25z

yes , Such a technologically advanced civilization the germans are..

3.NY girl, 12, says she was raped at YMCA, had baby

.. A lawyer for a 12-year-old girl said Friday that she was raped in a YMCA sauna by a day camp counselor, became pregnant and contracted a sexually transmitted disease.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110520/ap_ ... wxMnNheXM-

Oh, and the perpetrators should get a slap on the wrist and some stern counselling as an appropriate punishment.

All this going in the last 2 months , And there may be many many more other transgressions.

Indeed , aren't we all glad we have LIBERATED ourselves from the chains of oppression !

Decay? Speaks for Arabs, they are the one who top world statistics in using prostitutes and online p<3n.
In the Emirates alone, Emirati women have the highest rate in the world of cervical cancer because their are contamonated by their husbands who hire prostitutes so many times.
And how moral is that to sleep with your cousin,

Zubber, supply and demand... Men like to buy s.ex and p.orn, that's why there is a market for it.

From all that you post I think the blame comes down squarely on the men. Let's cover them up and keep them in the house, because clearly they degrade our society.

Agree with all the above - yes, I do think the increasing commoditisation of s3x is a sign of moral decay, yes I agree with herve that prostitution is rife in some Arab states (and I'll take it that there are 'real' stats which back up his claims), and agree with kanelli that tackling the demand from men is important (can't just blame the supply).

I don't see the link between marrying a cousin and moral decay though... that's more a cultural thing, and given it is marriage and not 'sleeping with', I think herve is just taking his usual potshot at Arabs - n'est pas?

That said, another good indication of the 'moral decay' are the global stats on abuse of women - these include those forced into prostitution. Those make for horrendous readings:
http://stopvaw.org/Prevalence_of_Domestic_Violence.html

Cheers,
Shafique

History is cyclical: The Egyptian, Greek and Roman civilizations descended into moral decadence as they imploded.

Kanelli: Hahahahahahahahaha! I have my purdah on already!!



Knight

Shaf I consider marriage with cousins a moral decay, because it is not about culture, it is even worse than just sleeping with your cousin. It is about marrying family members between each other to keep the money and the power in the family. Money - power, there is no culture here. And that s beside the fact that love is not even mentionned in those marriages. For what I know, arabs do not marry for love.

How can Zubber speak about the West and it's moral decay?

There speaks the Muslim man who's post mainly consist of breast references, talk of unwrapping the candy, accompanied by pictures of Asian looking 'hotties' (as he refers, or words to that effect) and is laughingly thought of as DF's oldest virgin.

What a hypocrite!

The moral decay stems from men. They objectify and treat women as s.ex objects, then slander and try to control women when they express any kind of s.exuality, be it for their private relationships or for business. Men want the beauty and s.ex from women, but then look negatively on them when they give it.

kanelli wrote:The moral decay stems from men. They objectify and treat women as s.ex objects, then slander and try to control women when they express any kind of s.exuality, be it for their private relationships or for business. Men want the beauty and s.ex from women, but then look negatively on them when they give it.

Wow! I think someone else on the forum needs to look into the healthy aspects of harbouring a deep seated hatred,

‘The moral decay stems from men’

has to be the biggest misguiding sweeping statement I have ever read! So you believe that men are the root cause of all moral decay? I take back my suggestion that you would perhaps better enjoy the social responsibilities of a seahorse in your afterlife I posted in another thread, I think a Praying Mantis would better suit your bizarre viewpoint.

kanelli wrote:The moral decay stems from men. They objectify and treat women as s.ex objects, then slander and try to control women when they express any kind of s.exuality, be it for their private relationships or for business. Men want the beauty and s.ex from women, but then look negatively on them when they give it.

The female Zubber-variant.

Yes, I made the sweeping statement to see the reaction I would get from zubber but you guys commented first. Honestly, I think that women also contribute to moral decay - everyone in a society does when they begin to accept certain behaviour as the norm. Of course it is controversial to talk about what kind of behaviour contributes to moral decay and what behaviour doesn't, because everyone has different viewpoints.

The other part of what I said I have seen reflected in so many ways. For example, the high school guys who want to date a beautiful girl but she's got a boyfriend from another school... They look at her walking by in her jean skirt and say "She's such a sl.ut, I bet her number is all over the bathroom wall." How about a bunch of guys travelling through Europe and when they arrive in Amsterdam go together to pay a prostitute to give them all blow jobs. Then those guys say they would never date or marry a woman who was a prostitute or stripper. How about men working in an office and discussing the levels of beauty of their female co-workers and agreeing that most of the pretty ones are dumb and/or incompetent.

kanelli wrote:agreeing that most of the pretty ones are dumb and/or incompetent.

Let me guess, you're really pretty.

None of those examples are about me, they are examples I've seen or heard from friends.

-- Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:41 am --

If you'd like some examples from my high school, how about these;

In order to get to my French class I had to walk through a narrow hallway. There was always a large group of boys sitting along the sides of that hall and I was terrified to go past because they always made noises and s.exual comments as any females passed by. They loved seeing the girls squirm and be nervous. The ones that stood up to them got completely verbally assaulted. I always walked a longer route around my school to get to my French class from the other end of the hall.

I was one of two girls in an autoCAD drafting class and we were both harassed by one male student and a couple of his buddies. We tried to stand up for ourselves. One time when the teacher left the room to get more paper the harasser cornered me, pressed up against me and told me he wanted to "Lick me up and down.", stared me in the face for a few seconds and walked off laughing.

I told off one guy who was bullying my friend and he followed me to my locker, pushed his body against mine and squished me against the locker and called me a sl.ut and said, "I bet your Daddy f%&& you."

Do women do such things to men? Where did those boys learn that behaviour and why did they think it was ok?

kanelli wrote:Yes, I made the sweeping statement to see the reaction I would get...

Aah, so that's OK then, you were only Flaming? or is the term Trolling? I'm not sure!



Or is it just Baiting? there's so many labels to choose from

Aah, so zubber can troll, but if kanelli does anything she has Dillon on her b.utt. Stay bias-free buddy!

kanelli wrote:What is boring is that you keep posting with no substance about the thread topic. Believe me, I have no interest in being hit with your handbag.

Kanelli, don't you find being at battle every day rather wearing?

zubber wrote:Indeed , aren't we all glad we have LIBERATED ourselves from the chains of oppression !

Who has been liberated from what oppression? More explanation please.

herve wrote:Shaf I consider marriage with cousins a moral decay, because it is not about culture, it is even worse than just sleeping with your cousin. It is about marrying family members between each other to keep the money and the power in the family. Money - power, there is no culture here. And that s beside the fact that love is not even mentionned in those marriages. For what I know, arabs do not marry for love.

whats wrong with keeping money and power in the family? if there was any in the first place? what if the two families were poor? what money and what power would they be keeping in the family? that is why it is a cultural thing.
you want to know what moral decay is? well at least from my point of view, men allowing their women to strip naked in front of strange men and rubbing their flesh against a complete stranger for a few dollars, men allowing there women to do p<3n for people to watch, so in general it is the exploiting of young women is a big moral decay, and unfortunately it is increasing in our world.

general_A wrote:


you want to know what moral decay is? well at least from my point of view, men allowing their women to strip naked in front of strange men and rubbing their flesh against a complete stranger for a few dollars, men allowing there women to do p<3n for people to watch, so in general it is the exploiting of young women is a big moral decay, and unfortunately it is increasing in our world.

You seem to speak out of experience, did you not enjoy your lap dance general? Stripers are mostly single girls, they have no men to allow them and they are willing. No decay here, stripers have existed for hundredssss of years, they earn more money than a bank manager.
The pervert is the one watching, not the one dancing. And I heard Arabs spend a lot of time in strip joints.
However sleeping with your cousin is di$gusting and sick, the good thing is that it carries a penalty, genetic disorders are passed along and in the end the family degenerates, hence decay is there, and not in the strip bar.

gertrude wrote:

general_A wrote:


you want to know what moral decay is? well at least from my point of view, men allowing their women to strip naked in front of strange men and rubbing their flesh against a complete stranger for a few dollars, men allowing there women to do p<3n for people to watch, so in general it is the exploiting of young women is a big moral decay, and unfortunately it is increasing in our world.

You seem to speak out of experience, did you not enjoy your lap dance general? Stripers are mostly single girls, they have no men to allow them and they are willing. No decay here, stripers have existed for hundredssss of years, they earn more money than a bank manager.
The pervert is the one watching, not the one dancing. And I heard Arabs spend a lot of time in strip joints.
However sleeping with your cousin is di$gusting and sick, the good thing is that it carries a penalty, genetic disorders are passed along and in the end the family degenerates, hence decay is there, and not in the strip bar.

^So, gertrude's argument is that the watchers of strippers are the perverts and that Arab men are enthusiastic consumers of the services of strippers.

No arguments there.

But it seems a bit rich (and illogical) to me that the suppliers of the service are let off scott-free. Are drug-dealers really just supplying a demand and are not to blame for drug use? I guess it is a valid argument.. but not one I'd agree with.

For me - an indicator of moral decay is when people come to view stripping and prostitution as 'normal' or 'ok' for the supplier and only the consumer is the pervert. But hey, perhaps I'm 'old fashioned' - I've been accused of worse!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:^So, gertrude's argument is that the watchers of strippers are the perverts and that Arab men are enthusiastic consumers of the services of strippers.

No arguments there.

But it seems a bit rich (and illogical) to me that the suppliers of the service are let off scott-free. Are drug-dealers really just supplying a demand and are not to blame for drug use? I guess it is a valid argument.. but not one I'd agree with.

For me - an indicator of moral decay is when people come to view stripping and prostitution as 'normal' or 'ok' for the supplier and only the consumer is the pervert. But hey, perhaps I'm 'old fashioned' - I've been accused of worse!

Cheers,
Shafique

Supply and demand Shaf. I'm sure there are more "consumers" than "suppliers".

I'm sure you're right - I wasn't aware I was arguing otherwise. My point was more that I'm not sure that the suppliers are blameless in all this.

My personal view is that we should (as parents and individuals) tackle the consumer part of the problem - and that is where personal morality comes into play and is precisely the part that all religions tackle as well. The societal measures are there for society to agree and implement.

Cheers,
Shafique

Anyone have any ideas about how to de-normalize the over-se.xualization of our society?

shafique wrote:I'm sure you're right - I wasn't aware I was arguing otherwise. My point was more that I'm not sure that the suppliers are blameless in all this.

My personal view is that we should (as parents and individuals) tackle the consumer part of the problem - and that is where personal morality comes into play and is precisely the part that all religions tackle as well. The societal measures are there for society to agree and implement.

Cheers,
Shafique

What is your plan Shaf to get [Latest official current world population estimate, for mid-year 2010] the parents and individuals of an estimated 6,852,472,823 world population to agree and implement the moral values that you believe will fix many of the problems in life?

My plan is to do the best I can for myself and my children, and to 'walk the talk', as it were.

I'm a firm believer in creating a home environment which is a 'paradise' and within which we are all comfortable and where kindness, love, morality, justice is practiced and taught.

I believe it starts with the home - giving individuals the self-worth to understand they can lead fashion rather than have to follow fashion. Style never goes out of fashion, we aspire to be stylish and dignified, but not snooty or arrogant.

I have no illusions that our actions will resolve the se.xualisation of much of the planet, but it is what we can do.

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm cringing thinking about trying to teach my boys to respect themselves and women when I know they'll end up flipping tv channels and watching all the reality shows with drunken people, stripping, making out and bedding each other... or they can watch MTV and see great programs like Skins. NOT! I have a feeling that we'll end up with no cable package in the future and will just download the programming we want from the Internet. Then I'll just have to explain why those shows are junk later so they can keep it in mind if they watch at a friend's house.

shafique wrote:My plan is to do the best I can for myself and my children, and to 'walk the talk', as it were.

I'm a firm believer in creating a home environment which is a 'paradise' and within which we are all comfortable and where kindness, love, morality, justice is practiced and taught.

I believe it starts with the home - giving individuals the self-worth to understand they can lead fashion rather than have to follow fashion. Style never goes out of fashion, we aspire to be stylish and dignified, but not snooty or arrogant. Cheers,
Shafique

What you think and do Shaf the majority of families strive for as well. Consumers and suppliers certainly have issues, which don't necessarily mean that they came from a bad home environment. There are many reasons behind those who are part of the supply and demand in the flesh trade. How many parents said that they did their very best to raise their child/children who took a different direction in life. I try to understand that something happened in the lives of people who take a turn for the worse. In many cases it isn't necessarily the lack of parental love, guidance, good home, etc.

Bora - sorry if I gave the impression that I was criticising other families, that wasn't my intention. I was just saying what we do (or strive to do, we are far from perfect), in response to your question.

My view is that if all families instilled these values into their children and lived by them -then much of society's ills would be tackled.

I don't label our values as 'Islamic' - they could easily be labelled 'moral', 'Christian', 'religious', 'humanist' etc. I see many Muslim families struggle with problems and I see many non-Muslim family create loving homely environments. It is a problem that trascends politics and/or religion IMO.

On a society level, I do believe that more can be done on the 'morality' front and over time what will be acceptable will change. However, the genie is well and truly out of the bottle, so I think the best I can do is to concentrate on my and my immediate family's values and actions.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:My view is that if all families instilled these values into their children and lived by them -then much of society's ills would be tackled.

Most families do instill those values in their children. It's just that many don't have control over the direction that their child/ren take in life. Many children were raised with those values but for whatever reason, and there are so so many, they took a different path. Some, over time, get back on the "right" path, some never do.