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prowheels · Sep 11, 2012

After I watched this, I felt quite guilty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=gMh-vlQwrmU

kanelli · Sep 11, 2012

Very sad that this poor treatment still continues

It was heartbreaking to see the one worker cry at his desperate situation.

prowheels · Sep 11, 2012

It pains me that I can't do anything about it, also I wonder why the government hasn't done anything. They do fine the owners, but they still fail to take any action.

kanelli · Sep 11, 2012

Cracking down on the agencies and companies would be a huge hit to the economy, so they will never do anything except give out small fines and pay lip service.

Frequentflier · Sep 11, 2012

This is absolute rubbish. And its not the first such report, and may not be the last.
These people have accepted to work in Dubai on these conditions. In other words, conditions at home were bad enough to push them into this kind of "modern slavery". I dont think its Dubai's fault.
If you really want to do these guys some good, then go to thier home countries and try and improve the economic situation for them there. Pick a Bangladeshi worker in Dubai and follow the trail to his village and see what things are like there, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: WHY?
I can tell you what needs to be done in the countries from where they hail: good and honest governance, fairness, reduction of monumental corruption, a level playing field so that people who work hard can get ahead. They are being exploited there and so are "pushed", and Dubai "pulls" them. Fair deal.

This is just one of those videos trying to find fault with a country of the region that is doing well, considering all aspects, and people from all over the world are finding a livelihood.

I would say : Well done Dubai, and carry on. Improvements are happening, and will continue to happen.

prowheels · Sep 12, 2012

Well obviously this happens many other parts of the world, but Dubai is the least of places you'd expect to find it.

kanelli · Sep 12, 2012

FF, you are heartless and clueless with those statements.

Just because people come from poverty conditions at home doesn't mean they should be exploited abroad. If you take their passports and don't pay their salaries, how is that better than them being at home? At least at home they are with their families and can farm to feed themselves. How would you feel putting your family into debt and selling off your land to pay too much money to agents who live high on the hog while you fly into the country and find out that your passport is taken from you and you have no choice but to work for at least 2 years for a salary that is less than you signed on for? Is it fair that these workers can't effectively advocate for themselves and that the government does not control ruthless agents and crack down on companies that mistreat their workers and don't pay their salaries?

Frequentflier · Sep 12, 2012

kanelli , I dont really want to throw your own words back at you, but clueless is what describes you best. And I'll tell you why. In the other thread (I think Michelle Obama) you are saying that Muslim women should wear tank tops and mini skirts in front of their fathers or husbands, and tell them to take a hike when questioned, because it is their right. Thats breaking centuries of taboo and culture, and you dont seem to realize what effect this will have on a conservative Muslim family. Even if the woman could bring herself around to doing such a thing. What can be more heartless?
Coming to the topic, I am amazed that you were so much swayed by the content of this third rate video on Youtube about Dubai.
The Middle East oil boom started way back in the 1970s. It sucked in a lot of poor people from the region, including India, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. The in-flow of people has slowed down now that the construction boom is more or less over, but it has never stopped completely. And you know what? Conditions for these laborers were a lot worst then than they are now. Word of these bad conditions have been trickling back for generations.The people back home know whats going on Kanelli. And still they want to come. To understand this strange phenomenon, you would have to be aware of the conditions for these people prevailing in their own countries, where the UN has estimated a per capita income of US$2 per day. Imagine a 24 year old strapping young Bangladeshi man, one of 14 children say, ranging from 3 years old to 24 with a mother who might be suffering from TB and a father crippled by years of hard toil;eager to work but not finding any. You said he can tend to his land? Do you think he has any land, or would be allowed to own any? So he thanks his lucky stars when the Recruiter takes him to Dubai. He is willing to take his chances. The 300 Pounds per month is a boon!
That guy that broke down was pretending for the cameras, I can bet you a million to one. They all looked pretty well-fed and clothed. They need to keep their own toilets clean if the company wont do it for them. And at the end of the day they can take their passports and go wherever they want to. But they dont; and if sent away, many want to claw their way back in, at any costs! This video, and many like it, are simply misleading and wrong!
The other side of the coin is that I know of many people who have gone from rags to riches and become billionaires in Dubai. Not from the meagre salaries, but they saw the opportunity and grabbed it. There are construction companies owned by people that were once labourers. Thats not something that this video or any other will show you.
Dubai, and the UAE has been just the break that many had been waiting for.
Despite its detractors, I am very positive about Dubai.

drewpeacock · Sep 12, 2012

Frequentflier wrote:This is absolute rubbish. And its not the first such report, and may not be the last.
These people have accepted to work in Dubai on these conditions. In other words, conditions at home were bad enough to push them into this kind of "modern slavery". I dont think its Dubai's fault.
If you really want to do these guys some good, then go to thier home countries and try and improve the economic situation for them there. Pick a Bangladeshi worker in Dubai and follow the trail to his village and see what things are like there, and MOST IMPORTANTLY: WHY?
I can tell you what needs to be done in the countries from where they hail: good and honest governance, fairness, reduction of monumental corruption, a level playing field so that people who work hard can get ahead. They are being exploited there and so are "pushed", and Dubai "pulls" them. Fair deal.

This is just one of those videos trying to find fault with a country of the region that is doing well, considering all aspects, and people from all over the world are finding a livelihood.

I would say : Well done Dubai, and carry on. Improvements are happening, and will continue to happen.

Absolutely correct and well written post.

There have been millions before that have done the Dubai journey where upon their eventual return home surely such horror stories would curb future migration when relayed face to face?

Nucleus · Sep 12, 2012

kanelli wrote:If you take their passports and don't pay their salaries

Measures have been made against this, keeping passport is illegal now and payment to workers for companies must be made through bank or some other 3rd party money transfer so govt can see who is not paying their workers on time.

--- Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:33 pm ---

drewpeacock wrote:curb future migration

It may but then where this migration will transfer? Seems like Europe doesn't want them there. From personal experience workers I know get paid on time, but bad cases happen and relatively it is a small percentage. Most companies pay their workers on time.

kanelli · Sep 12, 2012

FF, you had plenty of opportunity to comment on what I was saying on the other topics in the other threads and you chose not to do so. I never said that I expected Muslim women to start wearing tank tops and mini-skirts, so that is complete nonsense. This thread is about the video so try to stay on topic.

Here is the Human Rights Watch World Report 2011 for the United Arab Emirates - http://www.hrw.org/world-report-2011/un ... b-emirates

Human Rights Watch wrote:
During six years of spectacular growth in the construction sector, mainly in Dubai, the UAE brought in hundreds of thousands of South Asian migrant workers. Immigration sponsorship laws grant employers extraordinary power over the lives of such workers. Workers do not have the right to organize or bargain collectively and face penalties for going on strike. The Labor Law of 1980 excludes from coverage domestic workers employed in private households. Although the law calls for a minimum wage, the Ministry of Labor has yet to adopt such a measure.

Across the country, abuses include unsafe work environments, squalid living conditions in labor camps, and the withholding of travel documents. Workers also complain of nonpayment of wages, despite a mandatory electronic payment system introduced in 2009, that requires companies to pay salaries directly into licensed banks to ensure timely payments without illegal deductions.

The financial crisis that began in late 2008 cost tens of thousands of workers their jobs. Trapped in camps lacking basics such as food and sanitation, many were unable to find new jobs or a way home. Other workers say that some employers forced them to accept reduced pay and benefits or face dismissal.

Hundreds of laid-off migrant workers in 2010 were stranded in labor camps without electricity or running water for months on end after their Dubai-based employers closed; some had to fight off rats while sleeping amidst garbage heaps.

In May hundreds of workers marched from their Sharjah labor camp to the Labor Ministry in Dubai demanding to be sent back home. The workers said they lived in squalor and their employer had not paid them in six months. That same week about 200 workers staged a sit-in at the Labor Ministry demanding unpaid wages. Police detained 95 Vietnamese workers who allegedly attempted to block the ministry's entry gates. In June three Asian workers suffocated to death in their labor accommodation in Dubai after inhaling carbon dioxide from a generator. In August a fire charred to death 11 sleeping workers. In September authorities finally began sending home 700 stranded workers from the al-Sajaa camp in Sharjah.

In February 2010 New York University committed publicly to requiring all companies building and operating its Abu Dhabi campus to reimburse workers for any recruiting or other employment-related fees that they had to pay. The new terms also bar companies from confiscating worker passports. In September the Guggenheim art museum followed suit, though its provisions do not require contractors to reimburse workers for fees paid. Neither institution publicly committed to independent, third-party monitoring of labor conditions or to collective bargaining and a minimum wage. At this writing Le Louvre Abu Dhabi has not made any specific public commitments.

Many female domestic workers in the UAE suffer unpaid wages, food deprivation, long working hours, forced confinement, and physical or sexual abuse. The Indonesian embassy registered a 24 percent increase in domestic worker exploitation incidents in Abu Dhabi in 2009 compared with 2008. In October 2010, makeshift shelters in Abu Dhabi and Dubai housed more than 300 runaway Filipina domestic workers. The standard contract for domestic workers introduced in April 2007 calls for "adequate breaks" but does not limit working hours or provide for a weekly rest day, overtime pay, or workers' compensation.

In October, two weeks after Kuwait announced plans to scrap its kafala (sponsorship) system, UAE's minister of labor said the UAE would not follow suit. However, the UAE government took some steps in 2010 to protect migrant workers. In March the Labor Ministry announced the creation of a new unit to identify and investigate potential labor trafficking cases. In May the Labor Ministry extended by an extra month the summer season midday break for individuals working outside in sweltering heat.

Here is another article, From the Front Line: Dubai's Labour Trap http://www.politicalinsightmagazine.com/?p=744

Nick Hunt wrote:‘When I came here I was so excited’, said Guriqbal, a 20-year-old Punjabi working as a security guard. ‘I saw the clean streets and the big buildings, and I thought it was a beautiful city. But they drove me straight to this camp and now I am working 17 hours a day. They promised me 2,000 dirhams (£340) a month, but I only get 500 (£85). They fine me if I forget to shave, or go to work in a creased uniform. All my wages go on my debts. How can I send money home? I thought I would fulfil my dreams here, but my dreams have fallen apart.’

‘We signed a contract’, said Wija from Sri Lanka, ‘but we found the contract was different when we arrived. They gave me a different visa paper. My passport has been taken away. They are playing with us’.

The stories of the workers I met were variations on a theme, one I heard again and again in these bleak labour camps. Back home, unscrupulous recruitment agents promise lucrative jobs in the Gulf, charging anywhere from £1,000 to £3,000 for the visa processing fee. Most expect to pay off their loans after working for six months or so, and then begin sending money to their families. But on arrival in the UAE, they find that the jobs do not exist. Already deeply in debt to the agents, they have no option but to accept different positions, with lower rates of pay. Some are told to sign contracts written in Arabic, which they cannot understand. To further guarantee their compliance, the companies routinely confiscate their passports, charging exorbitant ‘processing fees’ if they want them back.

It’s essentially a three-way con, perpetrated between the recruitment agents, the companies and the UAE government. The agents exploit the migrant workers’ naivety to trick them into coming to Dubai, the companies exploit their powerlessness and lack of access to legal services, and the government – despite officially banning practices like passport confiscation – benefits from a limitless pool of cheap, expendable labour. Deprived of legal rights, trapped in debt and desperate to send money home, they have no choice but to stay and work, despite the demeaning conditions.

Even greater misery has been wrought by the economic crisis. In Satwa, a South Asian immigrant district, hundreds gather each morning by the roadside in the hope of being picked up for a day’s casual work. Their companies have not employed them for months, and the indentured labour system prevents them from finding other employers. Worse, many wages have been withheld since the global downturn hit; I was shown dozens of time sheets dating back six or seven months, which had yet to be paid.

On a rooftop within view of the glittering towers of the Financial Centre, I met a group of 20 Indian migrants sleeping rough under plastic sheets. Their washing was strung between satellite dishes, along with a few hopeful yellow hard hats, and they had built a crude brick stove to cook vegetables and rice. With no accommodation, jobs or passports, some had been stuck here for years, surviving only on charitable donations from an Indian businessman. These men were victims of the economic downturn and the UAE’s disregard for basic workers’ rights, but also, it seemed, of an astonishing lack of information back in their countries of origin. Surely older brothers and friends, having done their stints in Dubai, would have given some hint of the pitfalls that might await them?

On the other side of the Arabian Sea, I talked to Dr Irudaya Rajan, a migration expert at the Centre for Development Studies in Kerala, India. Kerala sends more migrants to the Gulf than anywhere else in the subcontinent; some towns and villages lose one man from every household. ‘Why do migrants keep on going? For prestige, not just money’, he said, explaining the powerful social and psychological factors at work. ‘There is huge social status attached to working in the UAE. Parents say “my son was in Dubai” – they do not know he was cleaning toilets there. The migrant often feels unable to tell his family of his position. When he comes home for a visit he dresses in a new suit, takes a taxi from the airport, spends his last rupees on jewellery, so everyone thinks he is rich. They never tell their real stories, because it is a humiliation. This is what perpetuates the dream.’

So, with some 4 million migrant workers in the UAE, there are obviously many workers who have good working conditions and are paid on time at the salary they agreed to, but there are also thousands who are not. Trying to minimize the plight of others who are suffering and feigning that all is peachy for migrant workers in the UAE is doing a huge disservice to migrants whose rights are being abused.

sage & onion · Sep 13, 2012

This is an old old story repeated many times and for the most part is true for a minority of workers in Dubai, most imported labour is treated decently. The mistake most Western Expatriates make is to compare their living standards with those of the Labourer, which is of course ridiculous. I have been involved with the recruitment and employment of labour for many years and I have never had any problems.

It is correct to say that the Government of Dubai has taken huge steps to ensure that workers are paid their agreed wage, you must follow the Government regulations in this regard or you simply will not get any work permits.

Recruitment overseas is very difficult to handle and the people that are mainly taking money are the workers own countrymen. I managed to get over that by going myself to India / Sri Lanka on several occasions with trusted people and cutting out the middle man.

The Labour camps of Dubai are now checked by Dubai Municipality on a regular basis and the Inspectors are quite strict.

In the same regard would all those people who moan and groan about this be willing to pay double / treble for everything that they purchase in order for the simple labourer to live in a villa in the Springs, I think not.

Frequentflier · Sep 14, 2012

kanelli ,

I still have the opportunity to show you your wrong thinking.
This is what happens when all one does is sit at home and read reports on the Internet. You use the prism of the standards that you have got used to, wherever it was that you grew up, and observe the rest of the world through that prism. And you end up with a very distorted view.
The result is the bull crap that comes out as your conclusion!
Reality is a little different than this dream world of yours.
You should compare apples with apples! And oranges with oranges.
Which country gets a completely clean bill of health from the Human Rights people, tell me that?
And who in his right mind makes his way to Dubai because it is considered the pinnacle for Human Rights?
Dubai is a gamble. Almost everyone that goes there knows that! There are people, as I have said, who have gone from rags to riches, and others who have lost the shirts on their back there. I am familiar with both kinds.
But it is a place that has given a break to many many many poor people of the world! It is a place that gives poor humanity hope; something to dream about.
Some dont make it, but many do.
So in what way is it any different than many other top rated countries in that?
And people are happy to take that chance. They are happy in Dubai, despite that fake crying by that Bangladeshi in the video. Just go out and do a survey and you will find nobody wants to leave!!
Read Sage&Onion's post above. I agree with what he has said.
Thats the reality.

sage & onion · Sep 14, 2012

Frequentflier ,

Amen FF, she will not read my post by the way as she does not consider me as a friend.

kanelli · Sep 14, 2012

Look at the bull crap you have written from the perspective of a Pakistani doctor who clearly comes from a wealthy background and home where you probably had several servants and a driver. There should always be haves and have-nots right? That's the rightful order of things...

(And I have assumptions I can make on your views on women based on your own conduct

) It takes a lot of cheek for you to say that the Bangladeshi construction worker was faking. I guess you spoke to him? Maybe you can show me your survey results from the workers you spoke to who love their working conditions in Dubai?

I have never claimed that workers should all be living in their own apartments or villas and receiving a salary like what construction workers in Europe and North America are paid.

It shouldn't be too much to ask that the UAE government controls the ruthless agents, and enforces the labour rights of the workers. For example, the living conditions should be sanitary and comfortable. The salary should be exactly as promised, the vacation time should be as promised, they should be paid on time as promised, and have their safety and health care provided for as promised. It should be a given that workers keep their own passports. That is not asking too much, whatever warped prism you feel I am viewing the issue through. As Nucleus and these articles pointed out, there have been some new regulations from the UAE government to make conditions better, but I feel they could be doing much more.

Nucleus · Sep 14, 2012

kanelli wrote:It shouldn't be too much to ask that the UAE government controls the ruthless agents, and enforces the labour rights of the workers. For example, the living conditions should be sanitary and comfortable. The salary should be exactly as promised, the vacation time should be as promised, they should be paid on time as promised, and have their safety and health care provided for as promised. It should be a given that workers keep their own passports. That is not asking too much, whatever warped prism you feel I am viewing the issue through.

If you read the regulations, measures for those are already in place and govt reviews and improves regulations and policies where they can. As S&O said company will not get permit or permit will be cancelled if it doesn't meet these regulations. If it was just asking for improvement, it would be welcomed but they way it has been done looked like smear campaign, showing partial picture, and blowing things out of proportion.

There is a saying road to hell are paved with good intentions, historically, trying to improve didn't go as planned -- look at Iran what it was then and what it is now. In short, don't mess with Dubai.

Frequentflier · Sep 15, 2012

kanelli wrote:Look at the bull crap you have written from the perspective of a Pakistani doctor who clearly comes from a wealthy background and home where you probably had several servants and a driver. There should always be haves and have-nots right? That's the rightful order of things... (And I have assumptions I can make on your views on women based on your own conduct ) It takes a lot of cheek for you to say that the Bangladeshi construction worker was faking. I guess you spoke to him? Maybe you can show me your survey results from the workers you spoke to who love their working conditions in Dubai?

I think its you that has been extremely cheeky in saying all of this rubbish. You have already made several malicious personal assumptions about me here!
In addition you've called me "clueless and heartless" in your previous post. You have been calling anyone that doesnt agree with you names like "cow". And worse, threats by implication.
Where do you come from Kanelli? Is this the language of civilized discourse??
What are all those winky faces all about? What do you think are my views about women based on my conduct? How do you know what my conduct is? Have we met before? Do you know me personally??
I have been trying my best to interact with you in a civilized manner, but from this uncalled cheekiness of yours it would appear that you are not used to that.
Everyone does not have to be in agreement with you. Yes, that Bangladeshi was faking it! And there will always be exploitation and haves and have-nots as long as it is called Planet Earth and not Paradise!
The point is that Dubai is doing something about it.
And as someone has said, leave Dubai well alone. Its doing ok. Thats the consensus.

kanelli · Sep 15, 2012

FF, when you deny or downplay that workers are mistreated in the UAE despite the overwhelming evidence found from many sources that this is happening, I'd call that pretty clueless and heartless.

I'd still like to know how you know that the Bangladeshi was faking it. That's a pretty malicious accusation against him, isn't it?

That is true that there are haves and have-nots, but it is possible to narrow that gap and make life better for more people, rather than trying to institutionalize gaps for the sake of profit and status.

The UAE has definitely made improvements; which is great, but so much more can still be done. We'll have to agree to disagree that the UAE should be left alone and not criticized for how it handles migrant workers.

evitav · Sep 15, 2012

kanelli wrote:Look at the bull crap you have written from the perspective of a Pakistani doctor

Where did you get this from?

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