Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power

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Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
I dread to think that he actually gets paid for his "observations".

Excerpts from article appear below.

http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/uae/traff ... h-1.803532

Safe to assume that this is his view of the Western mindset:

Those with a guilt-innocence mind-set assume that everyone knows and follows the rules. They would, for example, never change the lane at the last minute or expect others to do it either. They would leave the prescribed two-car space between vehicles so there is enough room to wedge into the highway.


Here I think he is suggesting that Westerners need to make some adjustments:

But such an approach may not always work in countries in the Middle East, Asia and Africa as cultural values revolve round a sense of shame and honour, where relationships matter and the rules of engagement are more flexible. "Wanting to get your way with another driver here may require that you take permission, play the underdog by making eye contact, using your hands or nodding your head," says Blankenburgh.


Here he identifies where we, and every other expat, apparently go wrong:

On the one hand, says Blankenburgh, is the driving sense that each person brings from his own country. On the other are the local rules which are often misinterpreted. What we need is an acceptable form of behaviour, a ‘third culture', to reduce accidents, he adds.


Having given his views on what would be considered Western thinking, he suggests:

Asked whether drivers with Western licences, who automatically get a driving licence in the UAE, should also have to take driving classes, he said, "Protocol standards taught through driving tests do help. But our attitudes are psychological, emotional and cultural. There has to be a more common agreement on what is acceptable on the roads."


I certainly don't want to alter my driving skills/mind set to the local rules that are "misinterpreted" and learn the "protocol standards". *Vision: bodies all over SZR!!!*

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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Shame and Honour - easily dealt with by having totally blacked out windows, then you can do as you please without having to be seen, and hence, shamed. Oh....and a by-product is your car will be cooler also.... :D


Oh, and you can stare at women from behind your blacked out glass too, without being seen (much like wearing sunglasses inside the mall....)

I was under the impression that "westerners" can get the UAE licence by merely filling in a form because in the West we take a stringent driving test, and hence have the necessary skill level (in theory, at least), to drive in a safe and legal manner. Other areas (Asia, Africa), don't have such stringent tests, and in some of those countries being able to drive is not a prerequisite to getting a driving licence - having enough money, or a friend who can double for you, is a more efficient way to the licence.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Apparently if expats understand that they are the "underdog" and act accordingly, it could work out for everyone. :shock:

I obtained my UAE license by virtue of holding a US license. As for those who are not from Western countries, possibly a one time test to determine their driving skills would be good. If their skills are proven, then issue the license. That could also apply to westerners. If not, have them attend a driving course - flat rate, limited number of sessions. What is wrong is they need to take a test 10 times to get a "pass". Even new drivers go through the same procedure - fail 8 times get, it on the 9th try. It's a money maker indeed, and making money from those who can least afford it.

Someone told me that while taking driving lessons the instructor told them to cut into a cue to make a right turn. Student said it was wrong as he was in a straight ahead lane. Instructor told him that if he wanted to pass do as told. There was no space and the car was "nose in" the cue and held up traffic. Obviously he was taking a course in "Learning to Drive the Dubai Way". :lol: :lol:
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
What a load of bollox to say the least. Dude has effectively turned driving into some sort of complicated culturual ritual.

As for license swaps, you can for example swap a US license for a UAE one IF your an American citizen, but the same license becomes useless if you hold a different nationality. But if your Nationality is also on the preferred country list then its OK. But an Indian holding a US license cannot. So its basically the nationality not license.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
If you are Indian, with a US passport, are you saying that the US passport holder will not be issued a license if his country of birth on his passport is listed as India?? Hubby has place of birth as Egypt on his passport and was given a driving license without any testing - I'm sure based on his passport, not nationality.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
A clash of diverse driving cultures could be one of the main reasons for the high incidence of road accidents in the UAE.


A clash of diverse driving cultures? I think he’s being very PC when there’s no need to be, I think what he really means is the standards at which people are taught to drive in the Indian Sub Continent and MENA regions is, shall we say not quite up to the standard of most of the rest of the world, students are simply not taught how to drive, they’re taught how to make best use of available tarmac and pass a driving test and with the near total lack of traffic regulation enforcement breeds an almost chaotic environment. And just to confound matters, here in Dubai as in most GCC Countries you have the blind leading the blind when it comes to driving tuition.

I agree with everything Blankenburgh says, I’m not too sure I would define the named categories as he has done but in essence he has certainly captured the different attitudes of the drivers on the UAE roads and I think everyone new to the region would benefit from an induction to driving in Dubai.

“Drivers should create new cultural spaces for a win-win solution by anticipating, correctly interpreting and adjusting to the cultural habits of others."


This is difficult enough when you’re on a level playing field and everyone drives by the same rules, it’s complicated by the many different driving styles in the UAE but nevertheless, anyone who has attended advanced or speed driving courses will already know that around 75% of the course is dedicated to reading the road and anticipating the actions of other road users.

What he says makes complete sense to me!

8)
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Bora Bora wrote:If you are Indian, with a US passport, are you saying that the US passport holder will not be issued a license if his country of birth on his passport is listed as India?? Hubby has place of birth as Egypt on his passport and was given a driving license without any testing - I'm sure based on his passport, not nationality.


No I said nationality/citizen for me both same same :D, if your a preferred country passport holder with a preferred country license then its all good. If an Indian has a US license then its no good here.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
desertdudeshj wrote:
Bora Bora wrote:If you are Indian, with a US passport, are you saying that the US passport holder will not be issued a license if his country of birth on his passport is listed as India?? Hubby has place of birth as Egypt on his passport and was given a driving license without any testing - I'm sure based on his passport, not nationality.



If an Indian has a US license then its no good here.


That would be because he doesn't hold the US passport. A US green card wouldn't get you a pass either.

-- Thu May 26, 2011 3:49 pm --

Dillon wrote:
A clash of diverse driving cultures could be one of the main reasons for the high incidence of road accidents in the UAE.


A clash of diverse driving cultures? I think he’s being very PC when there’s no need to be, I think what he really means is the standards at which people are taught to drive in the Indian Sub Continent and MENA regions is, shall we say not quite up to the standard of most of the rest of the world, students are simply not taught how to drive, they’re taught how to make best use of available tarmac and pass a driving test and with the near total lack of traffic regulation enforcement breeds an almost chaotic environment. And just to confound matters, here in Dubai as in most GCC Countries you have the blind leading the blind when it comes to driving tuition.

I agree with everything Blankenburgh says, I’m not too sure I would define the named categories as he has done but in essence he has certainly captured the different attitudes of the drivers on the UAE roads and I think everyone new to the region would benefit from an induction to driving in Dubai.

“Drivers should create new cultural spaces for a win-win solution by anticipating, correctly interpreting and adjusting to the cultural habits of others."


This is difficult enough when you’re on a level playing field and everyone drives by the same rules, it’s complicated by the many different driving styles in the UAE but nevertheless, anyone who has attended advanced or speed driving courses will already know that around 75% of the course is dedicated to reading the road and anticipating the actions of other road users.

What he says makes complete sense to me!

8)


Have you been to Egypt??

Well, he isn't telling us anything we don't know. Every culture brings their own "style" to Dubai in many different ways, including driving. Then again, you have many westerners who leave their driving style back home and apparently adopt the local way of driving.

It is foolish to think that a "third culture" can be created where everyone drives according to the same rules unless they change the local way of driving and raise awareness, standards, and most importantly the penalties.

Clearly he states that the local way of driving is "misinterpreted" and there needs to be more understanding to local mentality when it comes to driving. Is that the "third culture" he is referring to?
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Yes, driving in Egypt is nearly as bad as driving in India and nowhere near as bad as driving in Nigeria but I found the Boulevard Peripherique in Paris the most scary! :shock:

My interpretation of the ‘Third Culture’ he refers to is simply that there is a compromise between any of the two driving styles he mentions, rather than a third specific culture, hence the closing statements and as much needs to be understood by every driver in Dubai, of the different ‘Cultures’ driving in Dubai.

:)
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Thats what I am saying. Maybe someone would just try this for kicks. A westerner go in with an Indian license to get it swapped and I'm sure if he made a little noise about it, he could very well walk out with a valid UAE license !

And going back to the OP the author of that article forgot to address another segment of road users, a small one but concentrated in certain parts of the city, the overpaid western expat here on a short term basis and treats UAE like his playground or some kind of extended vacation destination.

I know many westerners who drive ablsoutely shyte on purpose, not really bothered about anything. Rationale being, ah who cares we are only here for a short time plus we couldn't afford to keep these kind of cars back home with all the taxes, expensive insurance and expensive gas. So why not enjoy it while we can.

My dutch neighbour absolutely r@ped his car beyond belief and drove like a mad hatter. When he got tried that he got himself a even more powerfull car and ofcourse it got even worse from then on. Was obsessed with the speed culture and went out of his way to make friends with people with cars like Ferraris and Lambos.

And I know many more such from my extended off roading circle of accquitances, with discussions like who has bragging rights for the highest amount of fines. You will never hear any condemation infact praise when articles like the guy driving on two wheels on SZR are printed. Like how cool was that ! Infact they can't see why everybody is making such a fuss about it ? Or when somehow is seen trying to drift through a curve on a public road. Awesome !

So for the author trying to put the blame on everyone while keeping yourself totaly absolved is nothing short of BS. Just because you got your license from a hick town in the middle of nowhere with no more than 10 cars doesn't make you a better road user.

Driving is not culture specific, there are good and bad drivers from everywhere. Drivers from so called good cultures or good drivers back home turn into absolute road demons here.

What is more important is PROPER and FAIR law enforcement. If that is there then everything else will fall into place. Moaning and complaining about the rest is absolutely pointless.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Well I think what you're talking about are individuals breaking the laws in Dubai rather than the driving practices of different cultures in Dubai causing RTA's, yes they're related but what is needed to resolve what you talk about is effective law enforcement, the article is about understanding how others drive and how one can adapt to make driving safer for everyone in Dubai.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Well talking about driving lessons, you do know that they're 'apparently' teaching the Australian system here!!! However,m the standard I've wotnessed first hand of many of the instructors here is down right appalling. Do as I say, don't do as I do - as per usual.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
For me its pretty simple and boils down to one thing. Defensive driving, keep more distance than required, yes idiots will usually get into that space so just drop back a little. Keeps your eyes atleast 4 or 5 cars ahead of you instead of the one right infront of you. Having a high 4x4 helps in this regards. If you see the 5th car braking you know eventually you will have to aswell, so ease off the throttle from now.

And always be on the look out for morons aswell as don't let them bother you too much. Someone flashing you from behind, ease off the throttle, flash the right indicator and make the worlds slowest lane change possible, preferably right before a radar and watch him get flashed as he passes you in a rage :D Or if your in a mood yourself, ignore. Also helps having a mean looking 4x4 helps in this regards as many don't flash in the first place and quitely undertake you.

Besides it pretty easy to detect who is gonna drive how. An old 3 series BMW or Golf, most probably lebanese and always in a hurry and does not know what waiting is a line is all about. A white sunny with a hard hat in the back, will drive slow in the right lane and brake at everything, so on and so forth.

-- Thu May 26, 2011 5:42 pm --

Chocoholic wrote:Well talking about driving lessons, you do know that they're 'apparently' teaching the Australian system here!!! However,m the standard I've wotnessed first hand of many of the instructors here is down right appalling. Do as I say, don't do as I do - as per usual.


Driving schools as everybody knows are nothing more than bussiness looking to make a profit and have nothing to do with driving instructions. If they feel they have bled you enough or you've had it and going to go to a competitor then you get a license.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Dillon wrote:Well I think what you're talking about are individuals breaking the laws in Dubai rather than the driving practices of different cultures in Dubai causing RTA's, yes they're related but what is needed to resolve what you talk about is effective law enforcement, the article is about understanding how others drive and how one can adapt to make driving safer for everyone in Dubai.


Dillon, if we undersatnd how others drive, and you have multiple cultures to deal with, how does that make it safer? Should we put a sign on our car: "I'm [nationality] from [name of country]"? So the car on the left of me is local, the car in front is Egyptian, the car to the right is Phillipino, the car behind is Indian. Errr, now I feel trapped!!!! Sometimes there is only one way to do something for it to be effective. If we all had one mindset (or close to one) - in Dubai - as to how to drive, then that would make it safer, not understanding every nationality on the road without them identifying themselves. And like I said, if Dubai enforced the laws - and not be selective depending on nationality - that would deter people. Oh, yeah, and let's have a sign that says: Woman Driving, you know how ALL women are terrible drivers!!!

The only sign I "understand" is a BOB sign - then I give them a very wide berth!!!

I can't help but wonder how many locals drive without a license because daddy gave them a car and how many others drive without a license (as one forum member (expat) indicated he had been doing for years).
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
To add to what DDS said, stay awaaaaaaay from the old Nissan Patrols - they're the nut jobs of the roads!
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Bora Bora wrote:
Dillon wrote:Well I think what you're talking about are individuals breaking the laws in Dubai rather than the driving practices of different cultures in Dubai causing RTA's, yes they're related but what is needed to resolve what you talk about is effective law enforcement, the article is about understanding how others drive and how one can adapt to make driving safer for everyone in Dubai.


Dillon, if we undersatnd how others drive, and you have multiple cultures to deal with, how does that make it safer? Should we put a sign on our car: "I'm [nationality] from [name of country]"? So the car on the left of me is local, the car in front is Egyptian, the car to the right is Phillipino, the car behind is Indian. Errr, now I feel trapped!!!! Sometimes there is only one way to do something for it to be effective. If we all had one mindset (or close to one) - in Dubai - as to how to drive, then that would make it safer, not understanding every nationality on the road without them identifying themselves. And like I said, if Dubai enforced the laws - and not be selective depending on nationality - that would deter people. Oh, yeah, and let's have a sign that says: Woman Driving, you know how ALL women are terrible drivers!!!

The only sign I "understand" is a BOB sign - then I give them a very wide berth!!!

I can't help but wonder how many locals drive without a license because daddy gave them a car and how many others drive without a license (as one forum member (expat) indicated he had been doing for years).


Well it would be easier for me to direct you to a couple of websites in order to answer all your questions rather than bore everyone with detailed explanations. The article you originally posted is in essence, all about Advanced driving techniques for safer driving, other benefits are detailed on the sites in the links I have provided such as driving defensively, driving economically, driving fast, you don’t necessarily need to identify the nationality of the occupant of other vehicles, although it would perhaps help to be able to do so in some cases!

http://www.iam.org.uk/

http://www.dft.gov.uk/dsa/category.asp?cat=1

http://www.rospa.com/roadsafety/default.aspx
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Chocoholic wrote:To add to what DDS said, stay awaaaaaaay from the old Nissan Patrols - they're the nut jobs of the roads!


You mean this

watch for the fail at 0.37

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfqJWIrD ... e=youtu.be

and this



And this



and this

watch for another FAIL at 1.50



Had enough :mrgreen:

And to level it out and not be accused of singling out the region by UAEKID and the rest

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM5T7j7A ... re=related
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
One thing all three vids have in common - no one was wearing seatbelts. These kind of videos should be shown to everyone when getting a license and renewing their license. They should show the dead - all young people who lost their lives unnecessarily - in the name of "sport".

Here they are yelling "faster" in the beginning. Seems it turned out to be fatal or serious injuries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP73AfVMuQ8&NR=1

Fatal??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9V6x99k ... re=related

Thrown from the car and the car rolls over him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2u9hDnE ... re=related
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
It would be a good diea BB, but sadly I don't think they'd really care :(
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
Chocoholic wrote:It would be a good diea BB, but sadly I don't think they'd really care :(


How many people who are in a position to do something have to lose their son(s) to this kind of "sport" before they do something? How many have to die before something is done?

I wonder how many have been in accidents, cars destroyed, survived, and daddy gave them another car to go out and do the same thing.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 26, 2011
But don't forget you're dealing with the 'Inshallah' attitude! It's not THEIR life as far as they're concerned.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
Side tracking a bit. All those vids are from Qatar and famous crecent dune as they call it. Nothing but buffonery goes on there. There is a local version of that here on the Dubai Hatta road named big red. Thankfullythe width of the dune does not allow for any sideway crossing buffonery.

Actually those videos are unfair, desert driving is like a sport and if certain precautions are not taken and guidelines followed . The result could be a mess.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
The attitude also changes once you switch from 4 wheels to 2.

As the majority of motorcycles on the road here are small bore Bajaj or Hero Hondas with a top box delivering this and that, they effectively become invisible or more culturally 'insignificant' to certain drivers. Accordingly they treat every motorcyclist this way, even if the machine in question is infinitely more powerful that the car they are driving.

I would love a dirham for the number of times I have had to 'wave off' taxi drivers sitting 2" from my number plate at 120kmph on Sheikh Zayed Road. Thankfully, the little lane next to the central reservation crash barrier is mine if I want to use it, one just has to dodge the Nissan Sunny hubcaps, dead kittens and assorted tyre debris that always seems to remain there and never get cleared away.

I had a friend who was badly injured whilst riding a Yamaha VMax, which for the uninitiated is a 200bhp, 350kmph muscle bike, whilst stationary at a set of traffic lights. A blacked out 4x4 pulled up behind him and just didn't stop, smacked him in the rear and pushed him out into the flow of traffic, where he was struck side on by a Toyota Yaris. Multiple fractures to his left leg, broken ribs and a separated left wrist joint. The driver of the 4x4 attempted to leave the scene, but luckily was blocked by a taxi. This started an altercation between the taxi driver and the driver of the 4x4, who was an 18 year old local. In his official statement that was eventually read out in court as he tried to contest the case, said that he did not see the motorcycle as he was in a hurry to get to an appointment with his father in a nearby coffee shop.

The VMax is a huge bike and the rider was stopped with his foot on the brake, meaning the brake light was on. He was duly convicted and had to pay all the medical bills as well as receiving a 5000dhs fine for attempting to leave the scene. Unfortunately the driver of the Yaris was also fined 400dhs and his insurance company had to pick up the repair bills for the bike.

Its all a question of attitudes, expats who have been taught to drive in their own country such as the US or the UK generally tend to be more aware of other road users as this is a prerequisite of the curriculum. Personally, I wish they would teach everyone here the correct protocol at roundabouts as no-one seems to know which lane they should be in and just cut across all the traffic when they see the exit they want.

:? :? :?

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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
I think many of the people driving expensive sports cars tend to drive recklessly, no matter if they are expats or locals or whatever! The speed and drive in a reckless way because they have the car to do it, and money and influence to handle any consequences.

Despite different cultural beliefs, there is a standard of driving that produces less accidents and that is what everyone should be striving for.
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
One of the most scary moments in my driving experiences in the UK was my first encounter with a very strange intersection in Hemel Hempstead, known locally as the Magic Roundabout. :shock:

A roundabout surrounded by 6 mini roundabouts, while approaching the main roundabout you expect to be directed left, but following the rule of keeping left, at the first mini roundabout you find yourself going the wrong way around the main roundabout, scary moments I can tell you.

Sign.JPG
Sign on Approach
Sign.JPG (39.75 KiB) Viewed 1633 times


The Magic Roundabout.jpg
The magic Roundabout


:?
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
Dubai Knight wrote:Personally, I wish they would teach everyone here the correct protocol at roundabouts as no-one seems to know which lane they should be in and just cut across all the traffic when they see the exit they want.

How true! To be frank, passing rounabouts had been challenging for me before the road test because there are only 34 rounabouts in Moscow, the city with 3 million cars. So for all life you could have seen noone. By the way, the rule for passing is totaly opposite to Dubai's one.

I guess roundabout is pure English trait as weird as their sence of humour.
8) 8) 8)
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
:shock: :shock: :shock:

What the hell kind of a roundabout is that ! Was it someone ideas of a prank !

And most impirtantly of all, why is it still there !
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
That's a crazy roundabout!
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
Well when you analyse it, and understand the way it works, it really does make a lot of sense. First impressions are that it’s a roundabout surrounded by 6 mini roundabouts, as I first described and as the signage indicates, but if you look at it as a circular contiguous array of independent roundabouts, the way it works as a whole is a lot easier to understand and it’s still there because it works, how else would you keep traffic fluid in all directions on an intersection of 6 major roads?
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Re: Driving: Guilt-Innocence Vs. Fear-Power May 27, 2011
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