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uaekid wrote:

Bethsmum wrote:

uaekid wrote:beside if that's the case then they and you should now that we are the one of who bailed your economy out or trying at least , I think we by now won what ? half of the US treasury so we should be treated like the British royal families when we land there instead of being watched

finally unlike you poor ppl , when we have a say we don't take it to the streets , make a youtube video or wait for the next government to stand like cows in line to vote for some thing you won't get but we go straight to our presidents or the crown prince and simply set and say whats in our mind " it hard to believe but true " as a matter of fact we are board from the care we get.

Well I wish you would stop bailing out the US and finish your projects in Dubai instead
While you're having a word with Sheikh Mohammed or his sons, can you ask what happened to the gym I was promised by Dubai Properties? And what happened to our beach park at JBR too?

As for being spied on. If you behave yourself you haven't got anything to worry about have you? It wouldn't bother me one bit who watched me or what DNA database I was on.

I thing you living in a stable economic,safe, lootting free,tax free country should be a good substitute to your gym my dear and your sick communities back in the uk, don't you thing so beside my shacks are alnhyaan family and not almaktoom

Geez, kid, at least show some respect and have the decency to spell your sponsor's name correctly.

Bora Bora wrote:Since you need to use history in your argument you might as well bring the UK, Korea, France, India, Japan, Germany, Russia, and all the other countries that were at war at one time or another with another country, and guilty of the same "crimes" you claim the US has committed.

desertdudeshj wrote:The USA by far, by any measure has been the biggest exporter of terrorism since the end of WWII only they label it with such names as guarding intrests, liberating, disposing dictators, regime change and other choice words like that.

How many of those countries since the end of WWII have engaged in conflicts ? Remind me again which country did Japan and Germany invade, Russia had Afghanistan and maybe Georgia, India had Pakistan a couple of times, even if you tally up like I said every country in the world still no one comes close to the US. No one waves their schlongs around like you guys do.

Holier than thou delusion, at the very least.

Bora, Afghanistan and Pakistan are not similar. Afghanistan is Pakistan's Mexico!
The US does not export terrorists, it went one better, or so it thought at the time, by manufacturing terrorists from many countries in the areas of Pakistan that borders Afghanistan at the time of the Soviet invasion of Afgahnistan. Remember the beloved Mujahideen? Well, they were created by the CIA. Ask Hillary Clinton. They were systematically and scientifically trained in the art of covert warfare, including sabotage, explosives, and brutal murder to create terror in the Soviet Armed Forces.
They defeated the mighty Russian Army with help from the Pakistan Army. When the US left the region, little did they realize that their beloved creation the Mujahideen would metamorphose into the dreaded Taliban. Later to be joined by that other American creation, OBL.
The money and help that the US and others are now ineffectively pouring into Pakistan is part of their "plan" to somehow get rid of this self created genie, which threatens to devour the whole world, or at least a significant part of it. And not out of the goodness of their hearts. You can not imagine the damage all this has done to the fabric of Pakistani society, which was peaceful and progressive till the 1980s; you can readily see the effects on the World economy.

On another note, the US and UK are not similar. In WW2, when the Yank army landed in Britain to join the war against Hitler, here is what was said by a US newspaper The Morgantown Post, 1958, in an article by Holmes Alexander:

"The British regarded us then as well-meaning but blundering intercessors whom they rather preferred to have on their island than the Jerries. We were, in the well-known phrase, 'overpaid, oversexed and over here', and we were in British eyes overdecorated, overstaffed, overmaintenanced and overbearing."

This was later portrayed to perfection by Sylvestor Stallone in the Rambo movies!

With the proper leadership (nowhere in sight yet), Pakistan has very bright prospects, since the people have shown their resilience in the face of the odds that its current leadership has pitted them against.

And a final similarity Bora. Both Pakistan and the US are Nuclear Powers. Yay!!!!
I am just kidding there. I detest all Nuclear Weapons.

Well, they were created by the CIA.

How were Afghan peasants trained in terrorism by the CIA? Maybe they were taught how to fire an RPG or automatic rifle, but none went through Delta Forces explosives training.

I don't understand your point, there were few CIA operatives in Pakistan during the Afghan-Soviet War. For whatever few peasants the CIA trained, the Pakistanis trained, funded, armed and equipped several orders of magnitude more men than the United States would have been capable of.

little did they realize that their beloved creation the Mujahideen would metamorphose into the dreaded Taliban.

That's because they didn't. The people the United States trained became the Northern Alliance. We didn't have any former friends turned enemies in the Taliban. After 9/11, we re-established our links with the people we dealt with during the Cold War.

Later to be joined by that other American creation, OBL.

Besides in some Far Left former British politician's imagination, no evidence has been established that OBL was an American asset at any point in time.

desertdudeshj wrote:I think the whole combined couldn't match thecivillian death toll at American hands since the end of WWII. Korea, Vietnam, Guetamala, Cuba, Chile, Iraq, Afghanistan

Death Toll Event Dates
1 50,000,000 Second World War (Some overlap w/Stalin. Includes Sino-Japanese War and Holocaust. Doesn't incl. post-war German expulsions) 1937-45
2 48,250,000 China: Mao Zedong's regime. (incl. famine) 1949-76
3 20,000,000 USSR: Stalin's regime (incl. WW2-era atrocities) 1924-53 **
4 *
5 *
6 *
7 *
8 2,800,000 Korean War 1950-53
9 2,700,000 2nd Indochina War (incl. Laos & Cambodia) 1960-75
10 2,500,000 Chinese Civil War 1945-49
11 2,100,000 German Expulsions after WW2 1945-47
12 1,900,000 Second Sudanese Civil War 1983-
13 1,700,000 Congolese Civil War 1998-
14 1,650,000 Cambodia: Khmer Rouge Regime 1975-79
15 1,400,000 Afghanistan: Civil War 1980-
15 1,400,000 Ethiopian Civil Wars 1962-92
17 *
18 1,250,000 East Pakistan: Massacres 1971
19 1,000,000 Iran-Iraq War 1980-88
19 1,000,000 Nigeria: Biafran revolt 1967-70
21 800,000 Mozambique: Civil War 1976-92
21 800,000 Rwandan Massacres 1994
23 650,000 French-Algerian War 1954-62
24 600,000 First Indochina War 1945-54
25 500,000 India-Pakistan Partition 1947
25 500,000 Indonesia: Massacre of Communists 1965-67
25 500,000 Angolan Civil War 1975-94
25 500,000 First Sudanese Civil War 1955-72
25 *
30 *
31 350,000 Somalia: Civil War 1991-
? Unknown North Korea: Communist Regime 1948-

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/560855/posts

* Pre WWII listings excluded

** Includes purges and killings before, during and after Second World War

Red/Bold listings are conflicts the United States was a participant in

event horizon wrote:I don't understand your point, there were few CIA operatives in Pakistan during the Afghan-Soviet War. For whatever few peasants the CIA trained, the Pakistanis trained, funded, armed and equipped several orders of magnitude more men than the United States would have been capable of.

All with the blessings of big daddy USA

2 48,250,000 China: Mao Zedong's regime. (incl. famine) 1949-76 : Not an international conflict
3 20,000,000 USSR: Stalin's regime (incl. WW2-era atrocities) 1924-53 ** Not an international conflict
4 *
5 *
6 *
7 *
8 2,800,000 Korean War 1950-53
9 2,700,000 2nd Indochina War (incl. Laos & Cambodia) 1960-75
10 2,500,000 Chinese Civil War 1945-49 Not an international conflict
11 2,100,000 German Expulsions after WW2 1945-47 Not an international conflict
12 1,900,000 Second Sudanese Civil War 1983- Not an international conflict
13 1,700,000 Congolese Civil War 1998- Not an international conflict
14 1,650,000 Cambodia: Khmer Rouge Regime 1975-79 Not an international conflict
15 1,400,000 Afghanistan: Civil War 1980- Not an international conflict, although the date is wrong
15 1,400,000 Ethiopian Civil Wars 1962-92 Not an international conflict
17 *
18 1,250,000 East Pakistan: Massacres 1971 Not an international conflict
19 1,000,000 Iran-Iraq War 1980-88
19 1,000,000 Nigeria: Biafran revolt 1967-70 Not an international conflict
21 800,000 Mozambique: Civil War 1976-92 Not an international conflict
21 800,000 Rwandan Massacres 1994 Not an international conflict
23 650,000 French-Algerian War 1954-62
24 600,000 First Indochina War 1945-54
25 500,000 India-Pakistan Partition 1947
25 500,000 Indonesia: Massacre of Communists 1965-67 Not an international conflict
25 500,000 Angolan Civil War 1975-94 Not an international conflict
25 500,000 First Sudanese Civil War 1955-72 Not an international conflict
25 *
30 *
31 350,000 Somalia: Civil War 1991- Not an international conflict
? Unknown North Korea: Communist Regime 1948- Not an international conflict

Bora - I get from your posts that you're over-whelmed by the evidence of US sponsored violence, manufacture of terrorists and also my response to your request for details of Cuban/Latin American terrorists being harboured by the USA.

'Granting Asylum' to a terrorist 'perpetuators' (i.e. actual terrorists) is EXACTLY what the US is doing - and indeed is more formal than the accusations of harbouring terrorists that were laid against the Taliban, for example. Recall that the Taliban after 9/11 asked for the US to hand over evidence for OBL's guilt so they could consider handing him over - the US didn't take them up on this. (Historical fact). The US knowingly gives terrorists the right to stay in the USA.

Bora Bora wrote:

Several perpetuators of acts of terrorism committed in Venezuela over the last few years have been granted asylum in the United States, as well as participants in the Santa Cruz, Bolivia conspiracy.

Among other individuals promoting the use of terrorism in Latin American countries and who now live in the U.S. with the full knowledge and approval of the State Department, contrainjerencia.com identified the following figures:

Can you provide credible documentation citing the terrorist acts that these people allegedly committed? or are you just going on something that you read?

Sure I can. I don't make things up or have my head in the sand.

Let's just take the case of the guys who blew up a Cubana flight 455 in 1976:

Cubana Flight 455 was a Cubana flight from Barbados to Jamaica that was brought down by a terrorist attack on October 6, 1976. All 78 people on board the Douglas DC-8 aircraft were killed in what was then the most deadly terrorist airline attack in the Western hemisphere. Two time bombs were used, variously described as dynamite or C-4.

Evidence implicated several CIA-linked anti-Castro Cuban exiles and members of the Venezuelan secret police DISIP. Political complications quickly arose when Cuba accused the US government of being an accomplice to the attack. CIA documents released in 2005 indicate that the agency "had concrete advance intelligence, as early as June 1976, on plans by Cuban exile terrorist groups to bomb a Cubana airliner." Former CIA operative Posada Carriles denies involvement but provides many details of the incident in his book "Caminos del Guerrero" (Way of the Warrior).[1][2]

Four men were arrested in connection with the bombing and a trial was held in Venezuela: Freddy Lugo and Hernán Ricardo Lozano were sentenced to 20-year prison terms; Orlando Bosch was acquitted because of technical defects in the prosecution evidence, and lived in Miami, Florida until he died on the 27th of April, 2011; and Luis Posada Carriles was held for eight years while awaiting a final sentence, but eventually fled. He later entered the United States, where he was held on charges of entering the country illegally but released on April 19, 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cubana_Flight_455

Posada is wanted by Venezuela, and the US refuses to send him back.

Cheers,
Shafique

Let me know, when you figure out how to add, what the combined US inflicted death toll in Korea and Vietnam is compared with the rest of the figures on the list.

Be sure, to the best of your abilities, to exclude soldiers/civilians killed by Chinese/Korean/Vietnamese and non-American allied military forces.

All with the blessings of big daddy USA

Yes, I'm sure the Pakistanis wouldn't have trained/armed/equipped and financed the Afghans without US approval.

Oh, and let me know who the Chinese, Koreans and Vietnamese were funded and trained by?

No, it couldn't have been by the Soviets and in turn Chinese, could it?

Recall that the Taliban after 9/11 asked for the US to hand over evidence for OBL's guilt so they could consider handing him over - the US didn't take them up on this. (Historical fact). The US knowingly gives terrorists the right to stay in the USA.

You mean like Cuba, Iraq and numerous other countries do as well?

^So eh, why don't you give us your estimate of the numbers killed by the US in international attacks - including Afghanistan and Iraq. Give us the Total and the breakdown.
(I presume that looking up the statistics is what is making you avoid the Religion forum and the challenges to your logic there. )

DDS - you can add up the numbers killed by non-US in international attacks/wars etc - and similarly give us the total and the breakdown.

I'll sit this one out, but can comment if you guys want me to. I leave you both to your homework - and remember to show your workings and any assumptions made!

Cheers,
Shafique

Give us the Total and the breakdown.

Around 13,000 in Iraq, far fewer in Afghanistan.

I can't find how many have died in Pakistan due to the Pakistani military bombing and launching operations in the tribal territories.

My worries are that tens of thousands of innocent civilians have died but the meda/far left wingnuts are largely silent over the crimes of the Pakistani military.

Strange that (just as they were when the Soviet Union put down rebellions in Eastern Europe).

It's strange that EH didn't reveal genocide of native Americans by yanks and Irish by Englishmen in XIX century. EH, we live in the XXI century, remember, with the only SUPERPOWER, who commits atrocity all over the Globe: Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia. Who is the next?

Red Chief wrote:It's strange that EH didn't reveal genocide of native Americans by yanks and Irish by Englishmen in XIX century. EH, we live in the XXI century, remember, with the only SUPERPOWER, who commits atrocity all over the Globe: Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Lybia. Who is the next?

Give me a summation of Native Americans killed/massacred during the Indian/Frontier conflicts.

For it to correctly be considered a genocide, based on Native populations, I should expect that at least 100's of thousands of Natives were killed by the Americans during the hundred year plus or so period America had military conflicts with the Natives.

And what do the English have to do with the previous poster's comments of comparing America's death toll to the rest of the world's in the twenty and twenty first century?

Are you perhaps a little upset over my list ranking Stalin as one of the greatest butchers of the XX century?

Ah, the young one is in denial over these historic events AS WELL! wow.

Neil Fergusson - a staunch imperialists - actually argues that American independence was a really, really bad thing for the Native Americans - as elsewhere in the British Empire, the British administration from the UK was an influence against the excessive abuse of the natives of the lands being colonised. This restraint was absent after the American war of independence and led to the massacres in the various 'indian wars' etc and the prolonging of slavery in the USA.

But hey, let's not get ahead of ourselves - let's see that actual stats from eh and DDS. Totals and breakdowns - but I forgot to say, if you are going to bring fantasies such as 13,000 killed in Iraq, please also provide a link to your source.

So, waiting for total killed by US in foreign wars (declared or not) since 1945 from eh, and the equivalent by the rest of the world in foreign wars from DDS.

Stop waffling boys and provide the stats.

Cheers,
Shafique

One organization that did claim to have a tally of combatants and civilians killed by US and coalition forces throughout the war was the Iraq Body Count (IBC), a UK-based organization that has tracked civilian deaths since the 2003 invasion of Iraq. In total, over 150,000 people have been killed and 80 percent of them – more than 122,000 – were civilians, said the IBC.

According to John Sloboda, a founder of IBC, American and coalition forces have killed at least 22,668 combatants as well as 13,807 civilians.

The rest of the civilians were killed by terrorist groups, militias and insurgents.

http://www.jpost.com/International/Arti ... 93196&R=R1

Shafique, would you like to remind me again when slavery was officially banned in the gulf states?

But hey, at least you acknowledge the British were instrumental in banning the slave trade and slavery outright in the parts of the Islamic world they 'colonized'.

Still waffling eh - provide the total killed by the US since 1945 in foreign wars etc, along with the breakdown and sources for your total.

Total. Plus breakdown and sources.

DDS - I hope you submit your homework complete.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, there must be a name for the infliction you suffer from besides "thick headed". I give you credit for your ability to twist facts to support your opinion/argument and your ability to edit what you read and being capable of seeing what you read as having only one "clear" meaning to serve your purposes and although someone else sees it differently, they should accept your version, because you know "better".

Dude, thank you for the history lesson, but I don't think comparing wars to your everyday run of the mill terrorist attack is a worthy comparison. So your point is: during WAR TIME lives lost in war were at the hands of terrorists. People who got in the way of the big bad terrorist USA??? You might want to up it a notch and talk current events.

You might want to get in touch with India's government and let them know that those innocent people being killed by explosions are just people who were in the wrong place at the wrong time when Pakistani terrorists, or terrorists being harbored or given "asylum" by the Pakistani government, were planting bombs in India. Can you explain why Pakistani terrorists are blowing up Pakistsani civilians - innocent people? Now, that's a current event.

I see how you and your buddy sway away from discussing the crap that is going on back home. Alot could be said about the harboring/asylum and breeding of terrorists and terrorism - more than can be said about the US.

What part of the terrorist bombing of a Cuban airline and the US harbouring the terrorist wanted in Venezuela for this terrorist attack is 'twisting the facts'?

You asked for examples of the US harbouring terrorists, I provided it. Not wars etc - but terrorism.

There are indeed other examples of the US carrying out terrorist attacks and labelling them otherwise.. but I didn't make that point, and wasn't asked to provide examples.

The US knowingly is harbouring terrorists who carried out bombings of airlines etc. Can't see how I'm twisting anything by stating this verifiable fact.

Cheers,
Shafique

If you say so.

I do. Otherwise you'd accuse me of not answering your question for specific examples.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon wrote: Are you perhaps a little upset over my list ranking Stalin as one of the greatest butchers of the XX century?

No, I am not. If you call the victory of Red Army over Nazism and the liberation of Europe from fascism as a butchery I am proud that my both grandpas were part of it.

Your list is abosute bull shit. Probably you did not even read the explanations, how the amateur couted those digits. The most deaths happend due to famine in 20s-30s. Sorry but I cannot distinguish those events from similar ones, that had happend in Irish land in XIX century. It was a part of the Britain Empire at that time.

I have no idea why you reveal those digits at all, as the issue was about how many people US killed in the foreign countries, not in internal conflicts. Or sorry, I know of cause. It was made to overshadow US atrocity and interference to the conflicts far away from US borders.

Good try but fail again.

shafique wrote:I do. Otherwise you'd accuse me of not answering your question for specific examples.

Cheers,
Shafique

*Sigh*

Red Chief wrote:Good try but fail again.

eh is not having a good time of late is he?

Let's see whether he can produce the stats - given that he introduced a list in this thread.

Cheers,
Shafique

the issue was about how many people US killed in the foreign countries, not in internal conflicts.

Define internal conflicts. Otherwise Russia's wars against the Chechens, or France's against the Vietnamese and Algerians could easily and convincingly be considered internal.

And why shouldn't I count state violence against her people? As an aside, thinking about this with some common sense, if the state would carry out violence on her own people, then I should expect the bare minimum done against non-citizens living outside her national territory.

For example, if Joseph Stalin had tens of thousands of average Soviet citizens shot, then it stands to reason that Joseph Stalin would not hesitate to execute tens of thousands of citizens from a foreign nation if the reasons for killing his own people could be applied to the foreigners. Whereas the opposite reason may not be true. One is more likely to kill the other before their own.

blah blah - excuses excuses.

The young lad is asked to count up those killed by the USA and give references, instead he is now complaining. Typical.

All mouth, no trousers. Again.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon wrote:Define internal conflicts. Otherwise Russia's wars against the Chechens, or France's against the Vietnamese and Algerians could easily and convincingly be considered internal.

Do you forget your own language again? Ask your mum. Internal means inside the borders, not thousands miles away from them. Back to US please. I don't want to speak about Nothern Ireland and English regiment there.

Red Chief wrote:

event horizon wrote:Define internal conflicts. Otherwise Russia's wars against the Chechens, or France's against the Vietnamese and Algerians could easily and convincingly be considered internal.

Do you forget your own language again? Ask your mum. Internal means inside the borders, not thousands miles away from them. Back to US please. I don't want to speak about Nothern Ireland and English regiment there.

Hence my question. Algeria was seen by the French as part of France. Geographic distance is an irrelevant point to considering a piece of land as internal, otherwise Hawaii is not really part of the United States.

So, based on your logic, if Vietnam and Korea were seen as part of the United States by the United States government, then all those deaths would be from internal conflict and not the type of wars you claim are only being discussed - although desertdudeshj never made that type of qualification in his post.

Iraq, Afghanistan and Lybia are outside borders of US. Apparently you have problem not only with English but with Geography too.

If a grandmother did have a d1ck she would be a grandfather. If US did not participated in 3 external conflicts at the same time it would probably be one of the most peacefull country in the world. What is the sence to speak about that? It's not going to happen.

Bethsmum wrote:The one thing I've noted about the difference between you and Zonker, is that he is proud to be Pakistani, whilst you avoid admitting to it at all costs. Why is that? He admits to there being big problems with the Government but loves his country.
Bora loves her country and I admire her for that. I love my country too, even though it has major problems with immigrants bleeding it dry.
Sunshine pretends to be English, whilst slagging the English off big style and you, munchkin, would give your right arm to get into Australia or Canada.
What is it with you Asians?

Very typical of you BM, the usual judgmental racist comments. You think Aborigines are the ugliest people in the world, and you're absolutely racist towards Black people, and now an ugly comment on the Asians.

Whose next??

event horizon wrote:

Well, they were created by the CIA.

How were Afghan peasants trained in terrorism by the CIA? Maybe they were taught how to fire an RPG or automatic rifle, but none went through Delta Forces explosives training.

I don't understand your point, there were few CIA operatives in Pakistan during the Afghan-Soviet War. For whatever few peasants the CIA trained, the Pakistanis trained, funded, armed and equipped several orders of magnitude more men than the United States would have been capable of.

little did they realize that their beloved creation the Mujahideen would metamorphose into the dreaded Taliban.

That's because they didn't. The people the United States trained became the Northern Alliance. We didn't have any former friends turned enemies in the Taliban. After 9/11, we re-established our links with the people we dealt with during the Cold War.

Later to be joined by that other American creation, OBL.

Besides in some Far Left former British politician's imagination, no evidence has been established that OBL was an American asset at any point in time.

desertdudeshj wrote:I think the whole combined couldn't match thecivillian death toll at American hands since the end of WWII. Korea, Vietnam, Guetamala, Cuba, Chile, Iraq, Afghanistan

Whoever is paying you for all this EH, are putting their money on a looser. You think the Americans would send a few CIA operatives to teach a "few Afghan peasants", as you put it, to fire RPGs to defeat the Russian Army? You are making your own Government look even more foolish than it already is! For your information, it was a huge operation master minded by the US, and aided by their "friends" from all over the world, including Saudi Arabian money, Pakistani Military know-how etc.

The Northern Alliance was a motley crowd of Tajiks, Uzbeks, and Persian speaking Afghans cobbled together by the Americans. These Tajiks and Uzbeks etc. form just about 30% of the Afghan population, and 70% is formed of the Pushtuns. The Mujahideen were from the whole of the Afghan population , and thus a majority were Pushtuns, who later became the Taliban. I think this should be easy to understand even for a Primary school student, but you seem to have missed the point.

Bora Bora wrote:Worst record at what?? Should the US use Pakistan as a model on homeland security and strategy??

US homeland security is not the work of politicians, it's the work of government agencies. You have HLS, FBI and CIA. Unfortunately, as with any government agencies within a country, they fail to work together and exchange info.

I have many answers of different prespectives, but I'll narrow it to one issue, the issuing of visas.

The US visas are being issued to us randomly here in the UAE. I know some very extreme people who got the visa in no time, 2-3 days. Where as some other very regular people, family member of mine was put on hold for 8 months, and then eventually got rejected for no proper reason, except that "he doesn't fit". Seriously?

What strategy is this?

At the airports, specially JFK they stop people randomly for detailed investigation, it happened a lot of times to my cousins who study there. One of my cousins was 1 year away from graduating, sadly he was stopped and forced to go back to the UAE for no proper reason, and poor guy he used all his sources to get a decent justification from the American authorities, but the only answer he got was "security reasons".

My father's cousin while studying in the US during the 80's was spied on and was falsely accused for communicating with the Iranian regime just because he used to buy his food from an Iranian restaurant.

A friend of mine, as peaceful as calm water, is put on the black list, and failed to attain a scholarship for his PhD (although he's totally qualified) due to false accusation from the security authorities here in my own country.

I'm giving you real examples of which I know/saw.

Now why is the US the worst? (As per this example of Visa's issuing)
Because there are many Emarati students in the US that has been sent back to the UAE (after 11/9) for extremely lame excuses, which the US government call "security reasons".

Let alone the other political reasons of waging endless uncalled for wars that only created more chaos and tragedy. The US can't rule the entire world as per its own definition of democracy. A lot of violations.

The US is free to practice their own security measures, as is the UAE, and every other country. The US maybe over cautious and people fall through the cracks - as a result of 9/11??? It is a very paranoid country - again, as a result of 9/11????

I have heard of people who were Shiite whose work visas were cancelled in the UAE. It is very difficult for Iranians to come to Dubai. A Pakistani-Canadian was denied a visa into Dubai. Is this because the UAE is being cautious as well??

When we travelled to San Francisco last year we were pulled over. We are heading to Los Angeles tonighte (departs on 9/11, arrives 9/11 YIKES!!!!) and there's a good possibility that we, or hubby at least who holds the American passport, will get pulled over because we are coming in via Dubai. Am I offended? No. Because we have nothing to worry about.

Getting a visa to the US is not an entitlement. Many, many people of different nationalities are denied visas. Sym, you don't have to go through the visa process in Dubai. Many expats get put on hold or delayed because they are being "investigated". Look at all the hoops people have to jump through and the requirements expats have to meet to reside in Dubai - and quite a few get denied. IMO Dubai is heavier on scrutiny that most countries. My husband works for a semi-government company and had to get CID clearance. Now, when they were going through the process something popped up and it had to be looked into. As it happens a former employer (expat) made false claims against him and it had to be cleared up before he got approval.

I think people need to take a closer look or learn more about how their own country handles security before criticizing other countries for they way they handle theirs.