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Chocoholic · Dec 29, 2010

Ambassador wrote:Most Canadian passports holders in the UAE aren't CANADIAN anyways...

Hahahaha soooooo true!

Bobble bobble bobble.

Bora Bora · Dec 29, 2010

Then world has no shortage of ducks!!!

Some years back I was told there was a huge American population in Dubai and I had to laugh and told that person that if he was referring to hypenated Americans, that would be true. I found that in Dubai, "Americans" who had a country other than US stamped in their passport under "place of birth", gravitated to a community that was comprised of people of their own ethnicity, possibly giving them a cultural comfort zone. Americans who are generational and know only "American" culture, do the same. Putting aside nationality and based on ethnicity there is voluntary segregation in Dubai.

Here in Dubai, everyone is defined by their "nationality" or ethnicity. Back in the States when talking about someone, we don't ask "where is s/he from?" Or "what is their nationality/ethnicity". In Dubai, it seems that the answers to those questions are used as the basis to form an opinion of an individual.

The funny thing is that in the US, ethnicity doesn't matter and people make friends, live together, socialize and work with a mixture of ethnicities. It's unfortunate but the Pakistani-American, Indian-American or the Lebanese-American who could be your neighbor or friend back in the States, probably wouldn't be your friend in Dubai, and if he was your neighbor, it wouldn't go past hello and goodbye.

Ambassador · Dec 29, 2010

^^^^ perhaps in "homogeneous' places / country side. In cities, even in the US "nationality" or ethnicitiy are still used. Such as when people refer to the italian, indian, irish, jewish, leganese, german family down the block or friend from school etc.

I think it is the opposite in the UAE...People identify themselves as Canadian or American simply by the passport they hold (or one of the passports they hold) but they are not "true" Canadian/American etc. It has nothing to do with race (as some claim) it has to do with them having no allegiance or even having been to that country since by being the sons of daughters of a Canadian/American citizens the subsequent generations acquire citizenship (although Canada stopped the gravy train as of April this year).

I know someone who makes sure to tell me each time that he is "Canadian' and that so are his children except for his "American" daughter - who was borned in boston 15 years ago but has not been back since. His english is very poor so I inquired how it is that he is Canadian (he explained the situation - complicated - he is arab) but it turns out that he spent a total of 59 days in Canada doing the paper work in order to get Canadian passports for himself and his family (that is the extent of his Canadian residency).

After he explained the situation I understood the need to have a Canadian passport but I don't think it makes him Canadian...

p.s. on the other hand I know Americans who were not born in the USA who are more American than apple pie.

zonker · Dec 29, 2010

Bora Bora...I thank you for enlightening me.

"The funny thing is that in the US, ethnicity doesn't matter and people make friends, live together, socialize and work with a mixture of ethnicities. It's unfortunate but the Pakistani-American, Indian-American or the Lebanese-American who could be your neighbor or friend back in the States, probably wouldn't be your friend in Dubai, and if he was your neighbor, it wouldn't go past hello and goodbye."

Thats a pretty sad commentary on the social scene of Dubai. This may sound a bit crude, but perhaps this is so because most of the people who have gone to Dubai are shallow in their thinking? In my opinion, making racist comments is not a sign of superiority, but the sign of a very deep inferiority complex.
Ambassador's comment sounded alarmingly undiplomatic when he said that most Canadian passport holders are not ACTUALLY CANADIAN, and he was then supported by Chocoholic and DK by their sniggering. I do believe that these three are Brits, because this form of racist behaviour is uniquely British.
Many years ago I lived in the UK, from where I got my education and training, and I know what I am talking about, although I gave as good as I got, but I can assure you it was not a pleasant experience. I have found Canadians here in Canada to be warm and freindly, and have not myself come across any racism. I cannot speak for the Canadians here on Dubai forums. The condition of people who want to show off their superiority just because the color of their skin may be infectious.

@Ambassador: No one ever gets Canadian citizenship by spending just 59 days in Canada. That is a manifest untruth. There are laws drawn up by the Canadian immigration authorities, and if you qualify, they allow you to become Canadian. Its certainly not a gravy train. Most of the people coming to Canada now are HIGHLY EDUCATED and well-off and successful individuals and mostly professional, which is not something that one could say about most (if not all) of the people that have unfortunately landed in the UAE, and perhaps thats why all this sniggering and trying to highlight your superiority by race. I can assure you that Canada gains from us as mush as we gain from Canada. It must be so, otherwise Canada would not have been taking in immigrants at the rate of 300,000 every year. We are all happy to be Canadian. Having said that, there is a points system for immigrating here, and not everyone can qualify or afford to become a Canadian immigrant. For your opinion, nowhere does it say in my Canadian passport that I cannot take up residence in some other part of the world if I so choose. And I pay my taxes, and contribute fully to Canadian society. And believe in ALL THE CANADIAN VALUES.
As for your comment about "American pie", what , prey, do you consider to be Canadian culture? Almost everyone in Canada is an immigrant, in case you are ignorant about that aspect of things, and I beleive that is so in most of N America. The days when you had to be a WASP are, I am sorry to inform you, behind us.
So, wake up..and smell the coffee....

Ambassador · Dec 29, 2010

zonker wrote:
@Ambassador: No one ever gets Canadian citizenship by spending just 59 days in Canada. That is a manifest untruth. There are laws drawn up by the Canadian immigration authorities, and if you qualify, they allow you to become Canadian. Its certainly not a gravy train. Most of the people coming to Canada now are HIGHLY EDUCATED and well-off and successful individuals and mostly professional, which is not something that one could say about most (if not all) of the people that have unfortunately landed in the UAE, and perhaps thats why all this sniggering and trying to highlight your superiority by race. I can assure you that Canada gains from us as mush as we gain from Canada. It must be so, otherwise Canada would not have been taking in immigrants at the rate of 300,000 every year. We are all happy to be Canadian. Having said that, there is a points system for immigrating here, and not everyone can qualify or afford to become a Canadian immigrant. For your opinion, nowhere does it say in my Canadian passport that I cannot take up residence in some other part of the world if I so choose. And I pay my taxes, and contribute fully to Canadian society. And believe in ALL THE CANADIAN VALUES.
As for your comment about "American pie", what , prey, do you consider to be Canadian culture? Almost everyone in Canada is an immigrant, in case you are ignorant about that aspect of things, and I beleive that is so in most of N America. The days when you had to be a WASP are, I am sorry to inform you, behind us.
So, wake up..and smell the coffee....

Chill, first because you know nothing about me: race, religion, nationality, Zex, education, ethnicity, etc. and second, just chill.

Regarding the 59 days...well he did it and it had to do with "Family Reunification". They did not only stayed there for 59 days but what they did was stretch the 59 days over I think 18 months (or whatever the time requirement is). The fact is that he has Canadian Citizenship (I've seen the passport) and he has been continuously employed in the UAE for over a decade....(he got his citizenship 4 years ago).

I am sorry you are "offended" (almost forgot about the Offendatorium - as it has been slow). You lost me on the "apple pie' rant but I guess you had a point eh?

Bora Bora · Dec 29, 2010

Ambassador wrote:^^^^ perhaps in "homogeneous' places / country side. In cities, even in the US "nationality" or ethnicitiy are still used. Such as when people refer to the italian, indian, irish, jewish, leganese, german family down the block or friend from school etc.

Wrong on the coutryside view Ambassador. It is more likely you will find more "racism" there than you would in the inner cities.

due to lack of exposure, or having moved there from over-exposure. It is true that people will refer to ethnicity or religion, but it is not used as a basis for an opinion, as it is in Dubai, unless it is said out of anger. Further to that, most names are give aways so no need to ask. :lol:

There may be an instance where someone is referring to a person in a conversation and the person cannot "place" the person being discussed and a "ethnic/religious description" may be used, but it is in no way meant to be racist or derogatory. And if someone refers to the italian, indian, irish, etc., family down the block or friend from school it is probably due to the fact that they don't know their name. :lol:

I think that the UK has taken a bigger hit with immigration, whereas the US is still "American". I always related "fish and chips" as being the "national dish" of England, and I think other nationalities saw it that way. Now the national dish is curry, which says alot about the change and influence in England. America is still "hamburger and fries", not curry, borsche, tacos, chinese, etc. :lol:

As for Canada, they opened the gates and made it very easy to migrate going back years ago. It really didn't take very much to get a residency passport (I believe that is what it is called - similar to the US green card) which would evolve into a full blown passport. I think there were many people who migrated, so to speak, to Canada to enjoy the benefits of a Canadian passport, not necessarily make it home. As in the US, Canadians receive a pension, and that pension will follow them wherever they live, especially in another country where they could live very comfortably on the income as opposed to struggling to survive in Canada.

In the UAE, the policy is that you would have to forfeit the passport of your birth country to obtain a UAE passport, which is a policy that I think other countries should follow. If "new citizens" had to relinquish the passport of their country of birth in exchange for the Canadian passport, more than likely the immigration would have been half of what it was. I'm sure that the hypenated citizens who give birth to children in Canada, the US or the UK make sure that those children also possess a hypenated passport of the country that the parents migrated from. The US is too soft in allowing people to hold multiple passports. The fact is, I don't know any western person who "wants" the Indian passport, or the Pakistani passport, or the Saudi passport, or the Lebanese passport, because quite frankly, they are useless and serve no purpose as far as I'm concerned. I'm entitled to the Egyptian passport, but never bothered getting it, because it would serve no purpose for me to have one.

Flying Dutchman · Dec 29, 2010

Problem is some countries donot allow you to de-citizise.

Ambassador · Dec 29, 2010

@BB I meant Countryside and homogeneous in that they don't have diversity (or even family trees).

kanelli · Dec 29, 2010

zonker, Canada's immigration system is too easy, but they've been tightening up. My kids are born outside of Canada, and if they don't have their children in Canada, then the Canadian citizenship cannot be passed to those children any longer. I don't have a problem with this because people should really have the citizenship of where they live most of their lives and contribute to that society. It does irritate me when I meet "Canadians" who have never lived there and can barely answer any questions about the place. They just use the passport for travelling more easily. Some have used it to go and study with cheaper tuition and then left again with no intention to remain in the country to live. Yes, very irritating.

shafique · Dec 29, 2010

Ambassador wrote:Most Canadian passports holders in the UAE aren't CANADIAN anyways...

Sorry, but I had to ask..

Did you mean that the Canadians in the UAE don't look like this:

Or were you thinking that they don't look like this:

Bora Bora · Dec 29, 2010

zonker wrote:Bora Bora...I thank you for enlightening me.

"The funny thing is that in the US, ethnicity doesn't matter and people make friends, live together, socialize and work with a mixture of ethnicities. It's unfortunate but the Pakistani-American, Indian-American or the Lebanese-American who could be your neighbor or friend back in the States, probably wouldn't be your friend in Dubai, and if he was your neighbor, it wouldn't go past hello and goodbye."

Thats a pretty sad commentary on the social scene of Dubai. This may sound a bit crude, but perhaps this is so because most of the people who have gone to Dubai are shallow in their thinking?

That's a pretty sad statement to say that most people going to Dubai are shallow in their thinking. Actually, it's the Dubai segregated culture that brings about that kind of thinking. You get sucked into it without realizing it. There are many expats who have been here for a very long time who were the "it" people, people to know, people to be seen with, the "Don't you know who I am???" people, who didn't want to go back to their country because back there, they were just like everyone else. Today, they are just like everyone else and have been pushed back by..........guess who?..........the locals!!! Now they want to get up close and personal with the locals that have the "it" factor. Now the only thing they can throw around is "I know so-and-so", grasping for importance by association. LOL

I take self-inventory every so often, especially when I'm feeling a bit "off". That "off" feeling tells me that something is happening to me that is unfamiliar so I do a self-check. I found that I was falling into that segregated culture which existed long before I arrived in Dubai. When I realized what was causing my "off" I corrected it. I forgot how to take one person at a time, but was taking one ethnic group as a whole. I will not allow "culture" to dictate my associations. I will say, the gap between people has closed but it still has a way to go. Some things that would have been jawdropping yesterday doesn't even get a second look today.

More importantly, people aren't "migrating" here because they want to make it "home". They do it for money, opportunity and a better lifestyle and know full well it will be temporary as there is no permance for expats. It's not as if the UAE passport is up there with a UK, US, Canadian, Australian and the like passports.

Ambassador · Dec 29, 2010

shafique wrote:
Ambassador wrote:Most Canadian passports holders in the UAE aren't CANADIAN anyways...

Sorry, but I had to ask..

Did you mean that the Canadians in the UAE don't look like this:

Or were you thinking that they don't look like this:

I ask you in return: who said anything about how Canadians look?

shafique · Dec 29, 2010

No one.

I'm just asking what you had in mind when you wrote what you wrote. Did it have nothing to with their skin colour?

I was also trying to be not-so-subtle about the fact that Anglo-Saxon Canadians are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants to North America!

Cheers,
Shafique

Ambassador · Dec 29, 2010

shafique wrote:No one.

I'm just asking what you had in mind when you wrote what you wrote. Did it have nothing to with their skin colour?
NO. and in subsequent posts I gave my reasons - no allegiance, or connection to the country other than the passport

I was also trying to be not-so-subtle about the fact that Anglo-Saxon Canadians are all immigrants or descendants of immigrants to North America!

Not breaking news.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique · Dec 29, 2010

Cool -thanks for clearing that up.

It's just when I read your comment and the subsequent posts in relation to it - my 'racism' antenai started to twitch. But that's just me - I'm glad that wasn't your intention.

I understand your views - Africa is full of people with British passports (white and non-white) who aren't contributing to the UK economy in any way. Indeed, the British authorities went out of their way to allow people like me to keep my passport when countries made you renounce other nationalities to become citizens.

When I turned 21, I had to sign a form to renounce my British citizenship to take up my Mauritian citizenship. The form I signed (from the British Government) explicitly stated that if I was doing this to get another nationality, all I had to do was reapply to the Brit authorities and get my new passport issued. The guy processing my application at the Mauritian consulate in the UK pointed this out and said that in practice I didn't actually have to hand in this form to the authorities - as for Mauritian purposes a copy of the form was all that was needed. (A few years later they did away with the law that said dual nationalities aren't allowed - so now I choose which passport to fly on and have to remember which one I used when I come back in).

I'd argue that Canada historically made it easy to get citizenship to attract the immigrants to the country - and made the calculated decision that during the period they are in the country they will be making an econonomic contribution. It is a value decision whether the citizenship was given away too cheaply - but it did have the desired effect of attracting immigrants.

Cheers,
Shafique

zubber · Dec 29, 2010

Bora Bora wrote:... grasping for importance by association. LOL

And this point boys and girls is the root of all the idiotic behavior which you encounter in the desert lands

dubaidog · Dec 29, 2010

Canada is has definitely put the brain drain on countries like India. Some of Canada's brightest minds were recruited from there, and they continue to do so. I am not in favour of the loosey-goosey laws that allow you to have a few bucks and get a passport within a couple of years. I think the mandated residency for new immigrants should be a lot longer. I recently had a friend who "had" to go to live in Canada for 2 years in order to keep his residency and apply for citizenship. What shocked me is even before he left here, he had no idea about the city, culture, people, transport, etc. I was pissed off because I hate passport collectors, and #2, do your research! His sole intent was to "do his time" and get out. He subsequently loves it and has a great job.

I think citizenship should be for people who truly want to contribute to the society and culture, not for ease of passage. I remember in 2005 during the last conflict in Beirut, Canadian Forces needed to airlift hundreds of Lebanese-Canadians "back home" to a country they had never seen.

This is a total digression (is that a word?) from the original post, though. Passport collectors are not the types of canucks affected by this, these token Canadians probably would not have family visiting as they are "bound" to "do their time". I do not know the demographic spread of Canadians here, but the ones I have met are generally family and couples, born-and-bred Canadians (regardless of skin tone).

zubber · Dec 29, 2010

dubaidog wrote:I think citizenship should be for people who truly want to contribute to the society and culture,

however, the sole objective of gaining a passport from an developed nation, is so that life would be easier, the goal of every man is to get a better job, have enough money to have a family, these are things all men live for, the one who wants to gain the passport couldnt care less about what is the capital of the country from which they want to acquire the citizenship. It wrong , But thats just the way it is

benwj · Dec 29, 2010

kanelli wrote:Sorry, I don't see how that link expounds on how Canada is screwing them back, unless you are suggesting that a catering truck accident with the A380 wasn't an accident.

Only an idiot would seriously suggest that Kanelli. :roll:

-- Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:00 pm --

kanelli wrote:I wish I could import my friends out of Dubai for a visit, because I have no interest in returning except to see friends. There is nothing else I miss about Dubai or want to see there. Having a $250 visa to enter just makes the decision of whether to visit or not a lot easier.

You must be really stuck for friends if you have to associate with people who like living in Dubai.

-- Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:07 pm --

Chocoholic wrote:
Bora Bora wrote:
benwj wrote:Canada IS screwing them back: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/canadian ... tID=368713

Using a catering truck to put an Emirates A380 out of service - brilliant!!! Yeah, serious payback.

That happened weeks a go and the A380 wasn't out of action for weeks, but merely a few days for repairs! I know the guy who was flying that aircraft and saw photos of the accident and the repaired wing - no biggie.

What's got you girls so uptight? It was meant to be a joke.

Dubai Knight · Dec 29, 2010

Well there has to be a reason why they have put Canindians on the undesirables list?

I did a little research and can only conclude it is because of the potentially damaging cultural influences the Canadian community might bring to Dubai, corrupting the minds of the local populace. Here are some examples of my findings:

: Superheroes, who wear their underwear on the outside?; johnnycanuck.jpg (22.2 KiB) Viewed 1738 times

: Gay lumberjacks?

: Gay lumberjack cars?

zubber · Dec 29, 2010

^^ LMFAO !!! :lol:

shafique · Dec 29, 2010

I was soooo resisting the lumberjack refs... but darnit, DK's done it now...

#he's a lumberjack and he's ok - he... #

Cheers,
Shafique

Dubai Knight · Dec 29, 2010

I also discovered the reason why so many Asian sub continentals and Lebanese apply to go there:

: Might move there myself!!

Knight

zubber · Dec 29, 2010

^^ DAMN !, Im heading out to the candian embassy tomorrow

drewpeacock · Dec 29, 2010

shafique wrote:
Ambassador wrote:Most Canadian passports holders in the UAE aren't CANADIAN anyways...

Sorry, but I had to ask..

Did you mean that the Canadians in the UAE don't look like this:

Or were you thinking that they don't look like this:

Is that a Filipino or a Thai in the top pic?

desertdudeshj · Dec 30, 2010

Well it doesn't help either when you have insulting pieces like these in the Canadian press aswell

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/201 ... n-the-uae/

desertdudeshj · Dec 30, 2010

Just read this and with all due respect to my Canadian friends and forumers but I think its a very smart startegic move from the UAE in response to Canada's protectionism over that failed national carrier Air Canada. Which in my point was all hoo ha as Qatar got granted similar landing rights, so Qatar Airways is not a threat to Air Canada but Emirates and Etihad is ?

A 30-day visa costs US$250 (Dh918) through the UAE Embassy in Ottawa but can be bought for $74.50 through Emirates, and $83 via Etihad.

You can come to the UAE at a reasonable price if you want to but only if you use our airline. I think if they dropped it down to something like 20 or 30 dollars it would drive the point home even clearer.

http://www.thenational.ae/news/uae-news ... -january-2

zonker · Dec 30, 2010

Racism is racism, no matter how it is dressed up.
Canada has an immigration policy that has been in place for about 2 decades now. They have fine-tuned it, and continue to do so further as circumstances dictate. On the whole, after doing all the math, the Govt. of Canada feels that they have benefitted immensely from immigrants, and that is the reason they have decided to increase the no. by a further 10%. The intake so far has been close to about 300000 people per year.
There is no mention in the Canadian Laws anywhere of the other things people talked about in this forum, like people having Canadian Passports, and not living in Canada etc., and I feel a man (or even woman) is free to choose what they do with their life. The white population of Canada was dwindling, and immigration was like a shot in the arm for the economy, which weathered the recent economic storm admirably because of the Govt policies, immigration being one of them.
As for Govt. benefits, like pensions. There are laws governing those. You cannot get a Canadian pension unless you have contributed to it for 10 years, and the pension will only be paid to you in a foreign country if you have lived in Canada for over 20 years.
Canadian immigration is easy? No, it is not. As I said, you have to qualify by the points system, and only then can you get in. It also takes money and a long time. I find a lot of US citizens (White ones!) trying to get Canadian immigration, and not succeeding! Despite all that, to be an immigrant is not easy, unlike being a resident of the UAE. Many people come here without proper planning, and discover that they dont like it. Many dont get the break that they were looking for. Many think that their chances are better elsewhere with a Canadian passport and citizenship, and leave. They are all Canadians, legally and socially, unless their Citizenship is revoked by the Canadian Govt.

Bora, I know what you are saying about the Dubai social setup. People are in a cocoon, with their Pakistani driver, Bangladeshi cook, Indian Servant, who behave like slaves for the Whites. Ordinary mortals begin to feel they must be something special, even though they are not. Thats when one starts to grasp at straws like skin color, or being close to someone important and being seen in his or her company. But how demeaning is that?
But to each his own......
Bottom line for me, I like it here,in Canada and feel welcomed, and when I feel differently, I shall leave.

kanelli · Dec 30, 2010

zonker, what you are saying only applies to those applying under skilled worker class, not ones who are sponsored over by family or those who get citizenship because one parent has a Canadian passport. I think the residency period should be at least 5 years before people are allowed to apply for citizenship. It would really make people establish a life in Canada first and they are more likely to stay in Canada - not grab a passport and leave.

But back to the original topic - I'm still not sure whether the visa rules and ridiculous fees will be enough to get Canadian authorities to change the rules allowing more access to air routes in Canada.

dubaidog · Dec 30, 2010

I don't think it will make the Canadian Politicians do anything. If the visa was 20, 30, 40 bucks, ok, fair play. But 1000 bucks for a restricted 6 month multi-entry? Jagoffs! 500 bucks for my mom to come visit? No way.

The funny thing is, Canada does not need the UAE, yet the UAE needs Canada. There are more than 200 Canadian owned businesses here, and in my 30 years in Canada, never met a UAE National. After some serious thought, I have no interest in starting my business here. Why piss away that money for start up when the rules can change in a moment? I can live on that for months back home, maybe a year.

I had plans of renting office space (UAE LL), getting residency (UAE gov't), employing 4 people (UEA gov't), never mind buying the vehicles and doing all the red tape! Screw it. Done. No interest. Like you, Kanelli, I will cherish the friends I have met here, but nothing else.

Mrs. DD and I are parking our asses on a beach in Thailand for a month, then going to Australia (we'll swing through and see you, kanelli, we love your neck-of-the-woods). I have no interest in supporting a country that will not support me. Thanks, UAE government, I almost gave you a second chance, but why bother?

I should have my Australian passport in no time!

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