![Rolling Eyes :roll:](https://www.dubaiforums.com/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](https://www.dubaiforums.com/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](https://www.dubaiforums.com/images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
the message board for Dubai English speaking community
^ian^ wrote:It should be clear though that the punishment is not for 'being raped' but for breaking the segregation laws of meeting in a car with an unrelated male.
Harsh indeed, but it's a very black and white application of the law.
It is akin to me perhaps driving from a petrol station without paying and then immediately being crashed into by a reckless driver. Being a victim of one crime does not exonerate me from another.
Having said that, I find some of the laws of segregation impractical, but she was well aware what she was doing before the rape was a crime. There is no indication as to whether her actions incited the violence against here though.
What is shocking most is that she was raped.
Concord wrote:^ian^ wrote:It should be clear though that the punishment is not for 'being raped' but for breaking the segregation laws of meeting in a car with an unrelated male.
Harsh indeed, but it's a very black and white application of the law.
It is akin to me perhaps driving from a petrol station without paying and then immediately being crashed into by a reckless driver. Being a victim of one crime does not exonerate me from another.
Having said that, I find some of the laws of segregation impractical, but she was well aware what she was doing before the rape was a crime. There is no indication as to whether her actions incited the violence against here though.
What is shocking most is that she was raped.
True, but if you think about it, the law is intended to "punish" someone in this case the girl for her action (meeting an unrelated male). However, she was more than punished by being raped by 7 men. Not that everyone she meets would rape her but she sure has already paid the price for her actions.
Law and Justice should be applied with some common-sense thrown in just for the hell of it...
What are the 200 lashes going to do other than inflict more punishment...
The seven rapists, who abducted the pair and raped both,
debian wrote:she made a mistake and caused 7 others to commit a capital sin.
debian wrote: she made a mistake and caused 7 others to commit a capital sin.
gtmash wrote:I am glad no one here pointed a finger at Islam. The Saudi lawmakers love to pass off their tribal nonsense as a part of Islam.
and...she might have did encourage them even indirectly...
she made a mistake and caused 7 others to commit a capital sin.
rudeboy wrote:I am pretty sure that there are loads of girls in the middle east especially in UAE who do not come forward and report it because they are afraid of the table turning on to them and them being sentenced or deported.
burton wrote:rudeboy wrote:I am pretty sure that there are loads of girls in the middle east especially in UAE who do not come forward and report it because they are afraid of the table turning on to them and them being sentenced or deported.
So that's why I don't understand your point. What you wrote above is precisely why the law should protect the victim!
If the law comes down in full force on the perpetrator AND at the same time assures the woman that she is innocent (and doesn't add further punishment like lashing) - then more women who have been raped will come forward!
I do not buy into this 'this is the law, you know the law' routine. This is something which doesn't help anybody. It is also a common arguement applied to expats, who are percieved to be unwilling to 'accept' a country's culture.
But this is ridiculous. There are millions of people who are nationals of {insert country} who want change themselves. Young professional women in Saudi Arabia want to be able to drive. They want to be able to meet a distant cousin without being subject to lashing. For 'outsiders' to say 'oh well, that's the law, she knew what she was doing' is a form of armchair mentality, not to mention unbelievably unsympathetic!
rudeboy wrote:the law is there to protect women. the law encourages women not to go and meet guys and have love and get pregnant or whatever. Thats y the laws are RETARTED. the laws are there to protect women. The law is there to protect victims
rudeboy wrote:but HOW do we know they are VICTIMS OR NOT.
How do we know that they didnt actually go and meet these guys and then wanted to have it off with them? do you know? does the CNN know?
rudeboy wrote:The judge is punishing them because they went to meet these guys. Tell me another thing y is Saudi being focused here? y not the women in africa who get raped? y isnt CNN reporting about them?
Medvezhonok wrote:rudeboy wrote:the law is there to protect women. the law encourages women not to go and meet guys and have love and get pregnant or whatever. Thats y the laws are RETARTED. the laws are there to protect women. The law is there to protect victims
Lets protect them by lashing them 200 times if they misbehave, gotcha.rudeboy wrote:but HOW do we know they are VICTIMS OR NOT.
How do we know that they didnt actually go and meet these guys and then wanted to have it off with them? do you know? does the CNN know?
I don't even know how to begin answering your question, this theory takes the cake; it's so stupid, it's almost on a separate plane of existence. I'm having a hard time determining whether you're joking or not, but for the sake of this argument I'm going to assume the latter.rudeboy wrote:The judge is punishing them because they went to meet these guys. Tell me another thing y is Saudi being focused here? y not the women in africa who get raped? y isnt CNN reporting about them?
Because after they get raped they don't get whipped 200 times, even after committing such horrendous acts as being in a car with a guy.
rudeboy wrote:lol ok i m joking wots so ever just answer this. How do you know they were raped?
Medvezhonok wrote:rudeboy wrote:lol ok i m joking wots so ever just answer this. How do you know they were raped?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_kit
* A nurse explains the hospital's HIV testing procedure and why HIV testing is beneficial. The victim then decides whether or not to permit HIV testing. In many states, there is no charge to the victim for these services.
* Routine blood collection is done (to check for pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases).
* The nurse documents any evidence of torn clothing or external injuries and takes photographs.
* The victim's clothing is collected and new clothes are provided.
* Any physical evidence from the rape scene (such as grass or leaves) is also collected.
* Hairs are collected: the nurse collects any loose hairs or debris in the pelvic area (looking for pubic hairs of the assailant). In some cases, some of the victim's pubic hairs are needed and 15-20 of the victim's head hairs (to differentiate the victim's hairs from the assailant's).
* Fingernail scrapings are collected for detection of blood or tissue.
* The nurse then examines the victim's perineum, thighs, abdomen, buttocks and facial area for evidence of semen and, if detected, it is collected.
* Several slides are made and swabs taken from the vaginal, anal, and oral areas to check for semen, sexually transmitted diseases, and infections.
* The hospital provides the victim with any preventive medicine necessary (for tetanus, sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy, etc.).
* Medical personnel perform the pelvic exam. The victim may request to have the examination done by a person of the same gender.
The sexual assault kit is then sealed in a box and secured at the hospital until given to the police for further laboratory analysis. For the box to be used in criminal proceedings, it is vital that the chain of custody and the integrity of the kit is preserved.
^ian^ wrote:Medvezhonok wrote:rudeboy wrote:lol ok i m joking wots so ever just answer this. How do you know they were raped?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_kit
* A nurse explains the hospital's HIV testing procedure and why HIV testing is beneficial. The victim then decides whether or not to permit HIV testing. In many states, there is no charge to the victim for these services.
* Routine blood collection is done (to check for pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases).
* The nurse documents any evidence of torn clothing or external injuries and takes photographs.
* The victim's clothing is collected and new clothes are provided.
* Any physical evidence from the rape scene (such as grass or leaves) is also collected.
* Hairs are collected: the nurse collects any loose hairs or debris in the pelvic area (looking for pubic hairs of the assailant). In some cases, some of the victim's pubic hairs are needed and 15-20 of the victim's head hairs (to differentiate the victim's hairs from the assailant's).
* Fingernail scrapings are collected for detection of blood or tissue.
* The nurse then examines the victim's perineum, thighs, abdomen, buttocks and facial area for evidence of semen and, if detected, it is collected.
* Several slides are made and swabs taken from the vaginal, anal, and oral areas to check for semen, sexually transmitted diseases, and infections.
* The hospital provides the victim with any preventive medicine necessary (for tetanus, sexually transmitted diseases, pregnancy, etc.).
* Medical personnel perform the pelvic exam. The victim may request to have the examination done by a person of the same gender.
The sexual assault kit is then sealed in a box and secured at the hospital until given to the police for further laboratory analysis. For the box to be used in criminal proceedings, it is vital that the chain of custody and the integrity of the kit is preserved.
It's actually easier to tell if they were raped.... ask them.
rudeboy wrote:yeh u can. but how can you trust them? how do you know they are telling the truth or not? how do you know they are just doing this to get compensated? thats why the tests are necessary
rudeboy wrote:yeh u can. but how can you trust them? how do you know they are telling the truth or not?
^ian^ wrote:rudeboy wrote:yeh u can. but how can you trust them? how do you know they are telling the truth or not? how do you know they are just doing this to get compensated? thats why the tests are necessary
the test confirms intercourse took place. It doesn't test if consent was given.
Application of Aristotle's truths could yield whether consent was given.