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Fail.

Where does the article say he did not follow the verse he cited?

Did you actually read the article you quoted?

event horizon wrote:The article said he was following the Koran.

It doesn't, therefore you either didn't read the article or are intentionally lying. Which is it?

Cheers,
Shafique

Yes I read the article. It does not say he was not following the Koran.

So, either you did not read the article or you were intentionally lying.

shafique wrote:The example you gave was not a person following the Quranic verse

So you lied. The article does not say he was following the Quran as you stated.

What the article described was a man beating his wife in anger - that is not according to the Quranic commandment. I read, and understood, your quote. You should go back and re-read, and apologise for lying.

Cheers,
Shafique

No, the article does not say the Imam did not follow the verse he cited.

However, we know the Imam cited a wife beating verse and beat his wife.

Seems like he put scripture to practice.

Now does the Koran say you can't beat your wife in anger if you suspect her of being rebellious or until she becomes obedient?

Seems like you're in denial about your bare-faced lie. The article does not state he followed the Quranic instructions as you wrongly stated it did.

You were careless - you could have said 'I interpret what was not written to be a vindication of my blogger friend's theory' but what you actually said was a lie. You said:

event horizon wrote:The article said he was following the Koran.

It doesn't.

Now, should you ever find one case of a Muslim man following the Quranic verse, let me know.

Cheers,
Shafique

Now, are you going to apologize for your lie that the Imam citing the Koran did not follow the Koran when he beat his wife?

I've explained to you what the article says. For someone to lie on another thread claiming a NYT article on rape was really talking about domestic abuse and now turn around and call someone else a liar is a bit rich.

The fact remains you lied when you claimed the example I gave was not an example of someone following the Koran.

shafique wrote:Your example is of a man battering his wife and not following the instructions in the Quran.

Stop wriggling eh. You've been caught out lying. I haven't.

Imagining that I am a liar like you (and quoting me saying something true ) is both funny and desperate.

Now, should you EVER find one person who has followed the Quranic instructions - I'll happily discuss the details with you.

Cheers,
Shafique

We can compare my alleged lie with your actual lie:
dubai-politics-talk/oslo-immigrant-account-for-domestic-violence-cases-t48539.html#p396595

But I'd first like you to address my questions you're keen on avoiding now that I've shown an Imam was arrested for domestic abuse for beating his wife for disobedience after citing the Koran which says to beat your wife for disobedience:

What do wives need to do to ensure their husbands do not suspect rebellion?

Is it "logical" to beat your wife on suspicions? After all, if she pleads she's innocent she's only lying and further steps (beatings) need to be taken.

Imagining that I am a liar like you (and quoting me saying something true

So where did my "example" (ie., article) say the imam did not follow the Koran when it says he quoted the Koran on wife beating when he beat his wife?

You lied.

event horizon wrote:The article said he was following the Koran.

It doesn't. The article doesn't even say the man gave this as an excuse for his wife beating. Failure upon failure, again, by you eh.

Now, should you find one instance where a Muslim did follow the Quranic instruction - let us know.

Cheers,
Shafique

You lied.

shafique wrote:There is a problem with domestic violence in Norway - the majority (80%) of incidents aren't reported

Now please stop squirming and address the questions you've been too ashamed to address.

Wrong thread eh - stop trolling. And in any case I've dealt with your confusion in detail in that thread already:
http://www.dubaiforums.com/dubai-politics-talk/oslo-immigrant-account-for-domestic-violence-cases-t48539.html#p396701


In this thread, you have been caught out in a lie - deal with it.

Just admit it - you cannot find one instance. Not one.

Cheers,
Shafique

What about the 9 out of 10 'rebellious' wives in Afghanistan? Are you saying that 9 out of 10 husbands don't follow the teachings of the Koran when they chastise their wives?

That's a lot of men disobeying Allah.

^Yes BM - IF 90% of the Afghanistani men are beating their wives then 90% of Afghani men are not obeying the Quran. To think otherwise will be as silly as arguing Catholicism says it is ok for priests to touch up young boys - and no one is silly enough to say that are they!

By my sampling - 100% of eh's blogger friends are living in fictional worlds and are allergic to facts. Care to comment?

Perhaps you can join in and help eh find one person who has followed the Quranic instructions. Eh is struggling big time - even resorting to lying about a quote he himself posted.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:By my sampling - 100% of eh's blogger friends are living in fictional worlds and are allergic to facts. Care to comment?

I might do if I knew EH's blogger friends were. I'm afraid I've no idea who you are talking about.

I'm taking my info from the BBC, that 90% of Afghani men subject their wives to domestic violence.

You'd think those women would have learnt their lesson by now.

Yes BM - IF 90% of the Afghanistani men are beating their wives then 90% of Afghani men are not obeying the Quran. To think otherwise will be as silly as arguing Catholicism says it is ok for priests to touch up young boys - and no one is silly enough to say that are they!

I must have missed the Catholic teaching saying it's "ok" to molest children.

If there were, and as long as it takes the same "steps" as the Koran, I'm sure you would claim it would not promote but actually discourage molestation. Sure.

(Of course you wouldn't, but you're not very bright and therefore don't hang on to your logic very long)

Koran 4:34 - Men are the managers of the affairs of women for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous women are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and beat them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All-high, All-great.

Catechism - Priests are the managers of the affairs of children for that God has preferred in bounty one of them over another, and for that they have expended of their property. Righteous children are therefore obedient, guarding the secret for God's guarding. And those you fear may be rebellious admonish; banish them to their couches, and touch them. If they then obey you, look not for any way against them; God is All-high, All-great.

shafique wrote:But the salient point is that the verse shows that molestation is not allowed in Catholicism. The only time touching is ever allowed is if a series of escalating punishments are meted out by the priest, and within a context of a judicial system that allows the children to appeal and even ultimately change congregation.

The crimes that merit punishment are what eh is asking about in this thread - and nucleus above has addressed this. eh - you can also look up what commentators and experts say on this too.

To my knowledge though - I know of no Catholic priest who has applied the first two levels of punishment and then proceeded on the last level. Nucleus, do you know of anyone??

Btw, what is this "judicial system" that wives can appeal? I'm assuming you made the claim up. Your answer to domestic abuse is that wives can divorce their husbands. That's apparently the only mechanism in Islamic law you can think of to "protect" abused wives.

Also, do wives get half the property of men in Islamic law after a divorce or do they get something like 1/3 as the Koran gives to female relatives of a deceased relative?

Eh - you seem to be suffering from yet another epic failure in comprehension.

shafique wrote:Yes BM - IF 90% of the Afghanistani men are beating their wives then 90% of Afghani men are not obeying the Quran. To think otherwise will be as silly as arguing Catholicism says it is ok for priests to touch up young boys - and no one is silly enough to say that are they!

Given no one is this silly, you are therefore looking extremely silly and desperate when you misinterpret the above to mean 'shafique is trying to blame Catholicism for misdeeds of priests'. That's the opposite of what I'm saying. Silly billy. Read more carefully next time!

I see that you are also still waffling on and presenting your Islamophobic-blogger-only theories as facts.

If you ever find one real-life example of a Muslim man following the principles laid out by God in the Quran, let me know.

Cheers,
Shafique

I'm completely baffled by your response.

My previous post was pretty clear.

I'm curious how many brain cells are still functioning in that head of yours.

My point was to show how weak your argument was by changing "beat" to "molest/touch", "wife" to "children" and "husband" to "priest".

Now, if there actually was a teaching in Catholicism that gave priests a green light to molest children (there isn't, that's why it's a false analogy) then you would see why your above post claiming wife beating not being allowed in Islam would look absurd if someone were to take your post, re-write it, and claim molestation is not allowed in Catholicism - again, under the pretend scenario where priests are allowed to molest children.

I have a feeling you STILL don't get it.

Very simple, IF Catholic teachings allowed priests to molest children after certain steps by the priests (analogous to Muslim husbands) were first taken anyone with common sense would still rightly conclude that molestation IS allowed in Catholicism. Absolutely NO one would claim that Catholicism prohibits molestation if priests ARE allowed to molest children, regardless of whatever limp wristed arguments you want to pull out:

shafique wrote:But the salient point is that the verse shows that molestation is not allowed in Catholicism. The only time touching is ever allowed is if a series of escalating punishments are meted out by the priest, and within a context of a judicial system that allows the children to appeal and even ultimately change congregation.

The crimes that merit punishment are what eh is asking about in this thread - and nucleus above has addressed this. eh - you can also look up what commentators and experts say on this too.

To my knowledge though - I know of no Catholic priest who has applied the first two levels of punishment and then proceeded on the last level. Nucleus, do you know of anyone??

Why are you confused? Just read the part I highlighted again.

Anyone claiming Catholic priests touching up boys are following Christian teachings are as silly as your blogger friends and your silly theory about Islam and wife beating. (And your similarly failed theory about Islam and honour crimes - one where you boasted you'd e-mail an expert and have so far failed to follow through).

It's not that complicated.

You're post is just making my point for me admirably. Thank you.

It certainly isn't distracting anyone away from the fact that you've so far failed to produce one Muslim who has followed the stages set out by God in the Quran - and that the one case you claimed existed turned out to be a wilful lie on your part.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Anyone claiming Catholic priests touching up boys are following Christian teachings are as silly

Huh? Did you not understand my past two posts?

Seriously?

Are you that brain-dead?

Seriously?

event horizon wrote:I have a feeling you STILL don't get it.

Yeah, I was right.

Brain-dead confirmed.

I did understand - and I won't repeat myself about your silliness.

I will, however, ask you once again to let us know if you ever find one Muslim man applying this verse as laid out in the Quran - should you do so, then we can check whether you blogger-theory actually has any basis in reality. Your one attempt proved to be a lie.

Cheers,
Shafique

Your one attempt proved to be a lie.

Where did you prove it to be a lie?

Oh, btw, if Catholic priests are allowed to molest children based on Catholic teachings, does Catholicism then condone molestation?

That's a real head scratcher. What do you think?

I proved you lied when I asked you to confirm whether your lie was simply a mistake from not reading the article, or an intentional lie. You replied you had read the article. (It was on the previous page of this thread - you really must look into your failing memory eh - really!)

Your statement was not true, and not a mistake. Therefore you told a deliberate lie.
philosophy-dubai/what-rebellious-wife-t48589-75.html#p397316

Now - are you going to continue to ask silly and obvious questions, or are you going to at least try and find one real life incident to back up your blogger-only theory?

cheers,

Shafique

So you didn't prove that the imam who was citing the Koran did not correctly follow the Koran when he beat his wife?

Excellent.

It's your opinion vs reality.

event horizon wrote:The article said he was following the Koran.

It doesn't. You lied.

(And also, you're in danger of converting a vain boast that you'd e-mail an expert on honour crimes into yet another lie. Or have you actually followed through and emailed her yet?)

But regardless of these facts - let's now see whether you or your blogger friends can find ONE (real, not imaginary) example of a Muslim man following the Quranic instructions in this verse. From your denials, I guess so far you've failed miserably.

Cheers,
Shafique

So you didn't prove that the imam who was citing the Koran did not correctly follow the Koran when he beat his wife?

Excellent.

It's your opinion vs reality.

I proved you told a big fat lie when you claimed the article agreed with your fantasy - it didn't.

Squirming is so undignified eh.

Anyway, let's see if you can ever find one real example to hang your argument on. Have asked Memri yet to manufacture a video for you?

Cheer,
Shafique

I proved you told a big fat lie when you claimed the article agreed with your fantasy - it didn't.

Thank you for admitting you lied when you claimed the imam did not follow the Koran when he cited its wife beating passage when he beat his wife.

I'm just wondering how obvious your game is to even someone with your level of iq. Media reports - what you're asking for - aren't going to provide information that a husband first admonished then banished his wife prior to his beating of her.

Your request is a fallacy and you know it.

Now answer the questions you're purposely avoiding (because answering shows how it easy it is for wives to get beaten in Islam).

Imagining I lied doesn't really help you eh. You're the only one caught out in a blatant lie here.

But let's leave that fact to one side - how is your search for one Muslim man who has followed the stages described by God going? Still nothing?

Cheers,
Shafique

Asking fallacious questions is not going to help you.

We know that an Imam in Germany beat his wife citing the wife beating verse in the Koran.