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‘Islam’ is an Arabic word and connotes submission, surrender, and obedience As a religion, Islam stands for complete submission and obedience to Allah and that is why it is called ‘ISLAM’.

event horizon wrote:I'm currently reading Kung's book on Islam and I marked every page where the author discusses the meaning of the word.

But on pages 77 and 78, Kung provides the most complete explanation of what 'islam' means:

page 77: from the Arabic verb aslama, 'to submit, hand oneself over, surrender' -- by its very names confesses none other than God: 'submission, handing over, surrendering' to God.

Aslama
Aslama (Ar. for: surrender; submission; obey; sincerity; peaceful attitude toward life) The word "aslama" derives from the three letter root in Arabic; s, l, m (pronounced - seen, laam, meem).


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Aslama forms the basis for the noun "ISLAM" and implies the meaning of being in a state of surrender, submission, obedience, sincerity and peace. The implication is the existence of two entities; one is the master and the other the slave or servant. This best describes the servitude of those who truly believe in the One God of the semitic language, "Allah" and indicates the choice of being in a state of aslama to Him.

But yet again, we see that the loon argument relies on selective quotes and a loon interpretation of facts which are blown away by a cursory examination of evidence.

shafique wrote:You really should try and keep up.

It is not that difficult.

Aslama is the verb from which the word Islam derives from. You stated this in a previous post.

The full meaning of Aslama has been posted above. You have been invited to check in any lexicon or dictionary to confirm the fact Aslama also means 'entered into peace'. I see just evasion on your part.

Ergo, once again your Orientalist views have been shown to rely on selective quotations and the wilful ignoring of evidence when posted.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:There are some details and conclusions that Kung makes that I would disagree with him on, but on the point of whether it is the same God .. he's pretty clear.

eh - confirm that on pg 90-91 Kung states:

Last is belief in the merciful, gracious God, who accepts human beings. In the Qur’an, as in the Bible, human beings are called ‘servants of God’: this does not mean slavery under a despot but expresses elementary human creatureliness before the one Lord. The Arabic ar-rahman (the ‘merciful’) is etymologically connected with the Hebrew rahamim, which together with hen and hesed represents the word-field of the New Testament charis and our word grace. Some statements in the Bible and the Qur’an can make God appear arbitrary, but the overall testimony of the Bible and the Qur’an is decisively that God is a God of grace and mercy.

Thus Judaism, Christianity and Islam together represent belief in the one God; they all are part of the one great monotheistic world movement. We should not underestimate the political significance of this shared belief in the one God, but be aware of it.

'decisively' he says - the God of the Bible an God of the Quran share the attributes of Mercy and Grace.

You can check any other Arabic dictionary to prove that “dhimmi” does not mean “guilty.” The word “madhmum” shares the same root as “dhimmi”, but so do many other words. To imply that there is a necessary connection between the two is pure idiocy, and proof of one’s ignorance of Arabic. They are quite simply two separate words entirely.

shafique wrote:There are some details and conclusions that Kung makes that I would disagree with him on, but on the point of whether it is the same God .. he's pretty clear.

eh - confirm that on pg 90-91 Kung states:

Last is belief in the merciful, gracious God, who accepts human beings. In the Qur’an, as in the Bible, human beings are called ‘servants of God’: this does not mean slavery under a despot but expresses elementary human creatureliness before the one Lord. The Arabic ar-rahman (the ‘merciful’) is etymologically connected with the Hebrew rahamim, which together with hen and hesed represents the word-field of the New Testament charis and our word grace. Some statements in the Bible and the Qur’an can make God appear arbitrary, but the overall testimony of the Bible and the Qur’an is decisively that God is a God of grace and mercy.

Thus Judaism, Christianity and Islam together represent belief in the one God; they all are part of the one great monotheistic world movement. We should not underestimate the political significance of this shared belief in the one God, but be aware of it.

'decisively' he says - the God of the Bible an God of the Quran share the attributes of Mercy and Grace.

shafique wrote:Dude, you ARE in denial.
philosophy-dubai/meaning-islam-t39515-45.html#p340178


Anyway, moving on to the substantive point - what do you say about Professor Kung's clear conclusion that you're wrong that the God of the Quran is different from the God Jesus prayed to?

If you have no response, just say so and I'll stop asking you (it will just show that you are, All Mouth, No Trousers).

Cheers,
Shafique