The Demise Of Islam

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Re: The Demise of Islam Nov 30, 2011
Segregationism, whether religious or ethnic, is anathema in Judaism, but has been practiced by Islam in the past and at present, both in religion and in worldly matters. The Muslims, especially, are segregationists, and the whole world is now suffering from this attitude. It has therefore become aggressive and dangerous. It has given birth to prejudice, schizophrenia, hypocrisy, double talk, double standards, double think, created a split between “us” and “them”, and resulted in dividing mankind into poor and rich, weak and strong, and into master and slave.

But one would like to ask in this connection where does this division of the world’s peoples into Evil and Good come from? The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Muslim doctrine that divides humanity into those who are believer and non-believer.

This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.


What's funny is you'll post, agree and defend something so blatantly antisemitic and then claim what's being said isn't Antisemitic.

You're a delusional moron.

That's nothing new and is proven when your own arguments are used against you and you don't realize it.

You're too stupid to understand irony and you're too irrational to read basic passages from the Koran, for instance, and understand what's being said.

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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
LOL - nice try. But FAIL. Big fat fail.

You guys misquoted Karmi and tried to make out he was anti-semitic, and that I was anti-semitic.

My views on Jews are clear:
philosophy-dubai/questions-for-shaf-for-the-record-t46569.html

Your attempt crashed and burned, and there's a whole thread on your failure. No wonder you're now resorting to selectively quoting and not giving any reference to the quote! :roll:

Here's where you guys previously failed in your attempt to make out I share your hatred:
philosophy-dubai/hasan-karmi-anti-semite-t43065.html

Just parotting and paraphrasing what Karmi did not say won't change the facts eh. Segregationism is bad - that is what he said. FD had to leave out a whole sentence to make it LOOK LIKE Karmi was anti-semitic. He was found out and hasn't got an answer.

dubai-politics-talk/anti-semitism-fanbois-perspective-t47663-60.html#p390333

No wonder you chose not to link to where FD selectively quoted the above quote. ;)

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise of Islam Nov 30, 2011
Forty percent of Moroccan immigrants in the Netherlands between the ages of 12 and 24 have been arrested, fined, charged or otherwise accused of committing a crime during the past five years, according to a new report commissioned by the Dutch Ministry of Interior.

In Dutch neighborhoods where the majority of residents are Moroccan immigrants, the youth crime rate reaches 50%.

The "Dutch-Moroccan Monitor 2011" also reveals that most of the Moroccan youth involved in criminal activities were born in Holland. This implies that the children of Moroccan immigrants are not integrating into Dutch society, and confirms that the Netherlands is paying dearly for its failed multicultural approach to immigration.

According to Dutch journalist Fleur Jurgens in her book, "The Moroccan Drama" (Het Marokkanendrama), the blame lies with two groups: the Moroccans, who say the Dutch are responsible for their circumstances, and leftwing multiculturalists, who have portrayed Moroccans as the defenseless victims of an unfair society.

The first myth is that there is no Moroccan problem. Jurgens answers this myth with the following statistics: over 60% of Moroccan youths between 17 and 23 drop out of school without even a basic qualification; Moroccan youth unemployment in the Netherlands is around 40%; more than 60% of Moroccan males between ages 40 and 64 live on Dutch social welfare benefits.

The second myth is that Moroccans turn to crime because the Dutch labor market discriminates against them. Jurgens refutes this by pointing out that immigrants from many countries are working in the Netherlands.

Jurgens concludes that Moroccan parents are to blame for the antisocial behavior of their children by teaching them at a young age to hate the Dutch and abhor their society.

The Dutch government now says it will abandon the long-standing model of multiculturalism that has encouraged Moroccans and other Muslim immigrants to create a parallel society within the Netherlands.

A new integration bill (covering letter and 15-page action plan), which Dutch Interior Minister Piet Hein Donner presented to parliament in June, reads: "The government shares the social dissatisfaction over the multicultural society model and plans to shift priority to the values of the Dutch people.
In the new integration system, the values of the Dutch society play a central role. With this change, the government steps away from the model of a multicultural society."

Is it all too little too late? Many native Dutch seem to think so.

Since 2004, when the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh was assassinated by a 26-year-old Dutch-Moroccan, tens of thousands of native Dutch have moved to other countries in search of a better life. During the first six months of 2011 alone, 58,000 people have left the Netherlands. According to Statistics Netherlands, the increase in emigrants is largely due to native Dutch leaving the country to settle elsewhere.


http://www.hudson-ny.org/2624/moroccan- ... etherlands
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
Yes, just paraphrasing someone's comments and claiming they're racist....like what you just did with FD's post.

Seriously, you're so stupid you don't realize your own contradictions.

No one needs to make Karmi's comments look Antisemitic. When he claims Jews are especially segregationist (or Blacks especially violent, or Muslims especially hateful) everyone in their right state of mind is going to agree that the person making that claim is an Antisemite.

I also see you failed to defend Karmi's last comment on Jews where he claims Jewish doctrine has literally gripped the world.

Here it is again:

This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
Your persistence is admirable. But quoting FD and trying to blame me for your failure is a bit rich. FD's words speak for themselves - and I note you haven't shown how his statements differ from Nazi views of jews.

Nazis also produced pamphlets detailing how Gypsies and Jews were social outcasts and described them as vermin. Substitute Jew for Morrocan in his latest quote above and you won't be able to tell the difference.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise of Islam Nov 30, 2011
Shafique reaction to:

Belgiummoroccan wrote:we muslims are taking over europe.there is even a shari'a court.what a blessing from ALLAH.alhamdulilah!the jews are traveling back to israel because there bussines collapse long time ago in antwerp diamont sector.That's not new!


is:

shafique wrote:Kudos Mr Belgium Morrocan


http://www.dubaiforums.com/philosophy-dubai/women-rights-read-infidel-t42311-15.html?hilit=slams#p340610
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
LOL.

Please enlighten me as to the point you want to make FD.

Herve was arguing that Islam is on the decline and failed spectacularly. You've posted some generalised views about "muslims" and now are on your favourite topic of Dutch Moroccans (and I don't need to remind you of your invented 70% stat about crime rates in Amsterdam).

Now you're resorting to your favourite tactic of selective quoting - but the question is why? Is it to excuse your hate filled post that is no different from Nazi propaganda?

Cheers,
Shafique

BTW - here's the full quote that FD is selectively quoting. Another epic fail on the part of our Dutch friend:

shafique wrote:Kudos Mr Belgium Morrocan - whist I don't know what you wrote, you managed to elicit an enlightening response from our Dutch friend.

What he wrote and didn't write is very interesting on many levels. ;)

But seriously FD - what did the guy say that you are slamming the door in his face. :) (Can't be arsed to Google translate)
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
shafique wrote:LOL.
Now you're resorting to your favourite tactic of selective quoting - but the question is why? Is it to excuse your hate filled post that is no different from Nazi propaganda?


Why all those question, is there really nothing you can come up with yourself. I told you before, I am not your mommy!
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
I'm asking the question because I want to know the answer. It is not obvious what your point is -but I'm definitely not confused over whether you are my mommy or not! ;)

I note that you're not embarrassed by your posts - but I'm asking what that has to do with Herve's failed point that Islam is on the decline?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
shafique wrote:I'm asking the question because I want to know the answer.


Well, not everything is about you.
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Re: The Demise of Islam Nov 30, 2011
shafique wrote:FD's words speak for themselves - and I note you haven't shown how his statements differ from Nazi views of jews.


Just compare Karmi's comments on Jews to what the Nazis said of the Jews if you want to make comparisons.

shafique wrote:Nazis also produced pamphlets detailing how Gypsies and Jews were social outcasts and described them as vermin.


The Nazis also claimed the Jews were especially secluded and greedy. No different from Karmi's claim that Jews are especially segregationist.

The Nazis also propagated conspiracy theories that Jews are harming the world as Karmi has explicitly claimed of Jews.

FD, however, simply said that there is a problem with Muslim immigration in Europe. His comments on Muslims (or if you change Muslims to Jews) never come close to the actual Antisemitic viewpoints expressed by Karmi that you claim aren't Antisemitic but are identical - to the letter - to Nazi propaganda.

What's funny is that in your defense of Antisemitism, you can't actually show how FD's comments are qualitatively racist. If anything FD said about Muslims is Islamophobic, then Karmi's negative descriptions of Jews and claims that Jews have damaged the entire race are absolutely Antisemitic - and they are without a doubt to any non-Antisemite who has read them.

shafique wrote:Substitute Jew for Morrocan in his latest quote above and you won't be able to tell the difference.


Good advice:

Karmi wrote:The Muslims, especially, are segregationists, and the whole world is now suffering from this attitude


Let me know where FD made a statement anywhere near as racist as the sentence above that you're now wailing over.

I'll go ahead and substitute Karmi's comments on Jews to Muslims and we can compare what Karmi said of "Muslims" (ie., Jews) to what FD said of Muslims.

So far, Karmi said Muslims are an especially segregationist people. Now let's see where FD makes a similarly racist, generalized, stereotypical and all encompassing comment on an entire group of people as Karmi had.
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
shafique's posts show a mainstream of nothingness. I think his vocabulary is limited to "rogue" "loon" and "fantasy"

shafique wrote:LOL - nice try. But FAIL. Big fat fail.
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:More loon fantasies from hervey baby, and fantasies and denials from eh, It's a shame it is all just a fantasy.
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Fail again.
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Nice try, but no cigar.
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:You're in denial.
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote::) hervey baby - you really must stop imagining things!! Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote: Why all these fantasies herve?
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Yes, I did fail to see any evidence for your loon theory.
Fail. Again.
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:eh - another rogue quote from a loon blogger perhaps?
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Loons trying to justfiy Herve's nazi view points. We don't, that's why you failed again.
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote: I suspect it's just because it is yet another rogue belief.
Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:A rogue belief is a rogue belief how ever you dress it up. Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Denial of loons is never pleasant to watch.
Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Nov 30, 2011
gertrude wrote:shafique's posts show a mainstream of nothingness. I think his vocabulary is limited to "rogue" "loon" and "fantasy"


Its called insanity

Einstein wrote:Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.


Alzheimer patients are also known to repeat the same thing over and over and over again.
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
Strange, mini Heydrich doesn't want to put up or shut up.

Once I invited him to compare Karmi's quotes on "Muslims" to FD's quotes on Muslims, shafique vanished from the thread.

Sieg Heil!
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
All the smoke and mirrors won't disguise the fact that Herve's fantasy in the OP is not proven - that Islam is in decline.

Eh's desperation to show that FD's misquote from Karmi shows I am anti-Semitic is funny. FD misleadingly quotes Karmi and is found out, and yet eh still tries to use his misquote to claim I'm anti-semitic. And then he misleadingly misquotes me again - this time in a reply to BelgiumMorrocan! :roll:

Why? Because FD posted a xenophobic rant that is no different from Nazi slurs against Jews.


Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
It's a smart move to avoid comparing Karmi's statements about "Muslims" to what FD wrote.

After all, FD never made the following remark about Muslims:

Karmi wrote:The Muslims, especially, are segregationists, and the whole world is now suffering from this attitude
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
What has FD's failed misquote got to do with his xenophobic rant about Muslims? Just because he failed to show I was anti-semitic by selectively quoting Karmi is neither here nor there.

Why not address FD's actual quote here which is no different from Nazi quotes about Jews, rather than his misquote from a separate thread?

I think I know the answer. ;)

Anyway, do you have any comment on herve's failed premise that Islam is in decline?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
Karmi wrote:The Muslims, especially, are segregationists, and the whole world is now suffering from this attitude


Comparing FD's comments to Karmi's would pretty much prove Karmi to be the Antisemite he is.

Good choice in avoiding it.

After all, just claiming FD's comments are no different from the Nazi's without showing how is all you can do when I can reel off what Karmi wrote at any time.
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
FD's rant is indeed no different from Nazi screeds on Jews. What FD's misquote of Karmi has to do with this is beyond me.

It certainly doesn't excuse his nazi-like rant.

What is funny is that you're avoiding what I've written and trying to make out that FD's misquote of Karmi has something to do with me. Fail. Again.

Let me ask you again, do you have anything to say on herve's failed notion that Islam is in decline, or are you just going to keep on trolling about random quotes from FD?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise of Islam Dec 01, 2011
http://www.hudson-ny.org/2367/european-muslim-no-go-zones

In the Netherlands, a Dutch court ordered the government to release to the public a politically incorrect list of 40 "no-go" zones in Holland. The top five Muslim problem neighborhoods are in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and Utrecht. The Kolenkit area in Amsterdam is the number one Muslim "problem district" in the country. The next three districts are in Rotterdam – Pendrecht, het Oude Noorden and Bloemhof. The Ondiep district in Utrecht is in the fifth position, followed by Rivierenwijk (Deventer), Spangen (Rotterdam), Oude Westen (Rotterdam), Heechterp/ Schieringen (Leeuwarden) and Noord-Oost (Maastricht).


People had enough. Of course, those exposed, will spit toxic venom over this.
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
Still justifying your rant? Nazis also were convinced that the anti-Jewish propaganda was true.

But I still keep coming back to ask what this has to do with herve's failed theory?

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise of Islam Dec 01, 2011
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Re: The Demise of Islam Dec 01, 2011
What FD's misquote of Karmi has to do with this is beyond me.


Happy to compare any line of Karmi's Antisemitic screed with what FD wrote.

I didn't see anything Nazi like in FD's comment.

Why don't you highlight which particular line was Nazi like and I'll be happy to compare said line with Karmi's Antisemitic statements?
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
Again, I ask what does FD misquoting Karmi have to do with FD's post in this thread which is no different from Nazi views of Jews?

The whole of FD's rant against Muslims was exactly like Nazi rants against Jews. Let me know if you disagree, and in what way his views are different from that of Nazis.

FD now seems to think that 'Muslim' equals 'non-European' - as if there aren't any Dutch Muslims (and Dutch Muslim men in particular). :roll:

It would be interesting to hear his comments about these two articles then (which also show the status of Islam in Holland, and highlights yet again the gap between the truth and loon hype about Islam's demise):

I am Arnold Yasin Mol and am president of the Scientific Bureau of the Dutch Muslim Party.

Muslims are now some decades part of Dutch society, the first generations were brought here to help rebuild our country.
From dikes to buildings, in almost every province they were deployed and have contributed to what the Netherlands is now; a modern country with good infrastructure and housing.

Now we are several generations later, and the immigrant children and grandchildren are completely part of Dutch society. They grow up with the same cartoons, freedom, education and ambitions as any other Dutch person.

The first generations hoped to return to their homeland, but to stay was the only option for a better future for their children. Besides these, and today there are many people who became Muslim. And this is why it is important for Muslims in the Netherlands to have their own voice in politics.

A voice which displays their interests, their dreams, their future and their ethics. That clearly states that Muslims are not terrorists or medieval barbarians, but want to live in harmony and contribute to a good future for everyone.

Islamic ideas that help contribute for a better world, precisely because Islam calls for peace. Not through oppression as it is unfortunately often assumed, but through dialogue and cooperation.
...

http://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9599937.0

And
Image
Nourdeen Wildeman is a 26-year-old Dutch Muslim who converted to Islam "officially" on December 9, 2007. Despite his recent conversion, he managed to launch his ongoing project "Find the Mosque that Fits You Best."

In this interview, Nourdeen talks not only about his project's experience, which gives useful information on Dutch mosques, but also about his daily challenges and opportunities as a Dutch Muslim convert, as well as a positive role model for European Muslim youth.

IslamOnline.net (IOL): Would you please tell us more about your project?

Wildeman: It is an e-project aiming to profile all mosques in the Netherlands. Through this project, any Muslim can know all about the mosques there with full information about each mosque.
...

http://www.onislam.net/english/reading- ... 23107.html

Proving that FD's looniness is not shared by all Dutch men.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise of Islam Dec 01, 2011
The whole of FD's rant against Muslims was exactly like Nazi rants against Jews. Let me know if you disagree, and in what way his views are different from that of Nazis.


I thought I was pretty clear that I disagreed.

Let me know in what way FD's comments condemning violent crime were similar to the Nazis and we can then compare Karmi's Nazi like statements on Jews to what FD wrote to determine which poster is actually closer to Nazi sloganeering.
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
Again, what has FD's misquote of Karmi got to do with FD's nazi-like views in his post?

You ask in what way is FD's post like the Nazi propaganda... well, let me re-state my case again:

It is only FD who has posted the nazi-like comments in this thread. Imagining that I share nazi views is a poor excuse for a comeback. But nice of you to support FD.

Let's see what FD's post looks like if we change the reference to Jews:
The problem is that JEWS tend to create 'no-go areas" in the big European cities. Many donot integrate. Crime rate amongst them is disproportionally high. Those are not little things. A 2% increase in population means a much higher increase in crime, if things are going the way it goes now. Belittling it only has an opposite effect. Also, I cannot stand the knee-jerking reactions that everything is the fault of European society. Look at yourself, and see whats wrong with your society, how you teach the boys to have very screwed perceptions of girls. When a girl is walking in a short skirt and tight tank top, it really doesn't mean she is asking for it and that she should be harassed, especially not by some stupid ugly Rif mountain dude.

And don't cry foul, when you create trouble wherever you are, and then people donot let you in anymore.


That's straight out of a 1930's Nazi propaganda leaflet about Jews (and Gypsies etc).

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Shafique
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Re: The Demise of Islam Dec 01, 2011
Karmi wrote:Segregationism has been practiced by Islam in the past and at present, both in religion and in worldly matters. The Muslims, especially, are segregationists, and the whole world is now suffering from this attitude. It has therefore become aggressive and dangerous. It has given birth to prejudice, schizophrenia, hypocrisy, double talk, double standards, double think, created a split between “us” and “them”, and resulted in dividing mankind into poor and rich, weak and strong, and into master and slave.

But one would like to ask in this connection where does this division of the world’s peoples into Evil and Good come from? The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Muslim doctrine that divides humanity into those who are believer and non-believer.

This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.


vs

Flying Dutchman wrote:The problem is that Muslims tend to create 'no-go areas" in the big European cities. Many donot integrate. Crime rate amongst them is disproportionally high. Those are not little things. A 2% increase in population means a much higher increase in crime, if things are going the way it goes now. Belittling it only has an opposite effect. Also, I cannot stand the knee-jerking reactions that everything is the fault of European society. Look at yourself, and see whats wrong with your society, how you teach the boys to have very screwed perceptions of girls. When a girl is walking in a short skirt and tight tank top, it really doesn't mean she is asking for it and that she should be harassed, especially not by some stupid ugly Rif mountain dude.
And don't cry foul, when you create trouble wherever you are, and then people donot let you in anymore.


Nothing I saw in FD's quote was racist. He doesn't claim Muslims are an especially violent people as Karmi makes a similar generalization of Jews.

He simply says that many do not integrate. That's probably the closest statement someone could complain about for not being politically correct. Hardly worth a comparison to Nazi writings on Jews.

Now, it speaks volumes that you would see Nazi rhetoric in FD's comments but give a pass to labeling Jews as a segregationist people and that they have damaged the world (both textbook Nazi accusations of the Jews) through their "doctrines".

But seriously, highlight the worst offending sentence FD made and I'll be happy to compare the sentence from the numerous Antisemitic quotes from Karmi.
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
So you are supporting FD's nazi-like rant and trying to say that he's just as bad as a deliberate misquote from Karmi.

Interesting.

We call that a 'whataboutery' argument - but a strange one, justifying FD's nazi rant by reference to a deliberate misquote from Karmi from an essay about the ills of segregationism. Hmm.

There were people like you making similar excuses for Nazi propaganda about Jews - saying that they 'had a point'. Unfortunately for you, the examples of Dutch Muslims given above show that just like the Nazis, FD is wrong.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: The Demise of Islam Dec 01, 2011
Just highlight which parts of FD's post makes it comparable to Nazi propaganda and we'll look at Karmi's pure Antisemitic drivel for comparison's sake.
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Re: The Demise Of Islam Dec 01, 2011
I'm amazed at your lack of comprehension skills. I stated clearly that the quoted post above is exactly the same as Nazi propaganda about Jews.

I'm still puzzled why you are referring to FD's misquote from Karmi - what has that got to do with his nazi-like quote here?

Cheers,
Shafique
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