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Melika suggested I start a new thread.

Based on what has been posted in this forum, the most extreme religious fanantic we have here is event horizon.

This is based on three threads - 'Biblical War Crimes' and 'Christian Terrorists' and 'For eh - Baruch Goldstein'.

This thread just brings the points gleaned from those threads and crystalises the proposition that the most extreme religious fanatic, in terms of condoning violence against civilians of other faiths, is event horizon (who formerly went by the names of ikka, and freefromrats).

In the first, event horizon does not only refuse to condemn the the enslavement of 32,000 virgins after their families (men, married, women, boys) are all slaughtered in cold blood after their towns are captured, he argues that this is no different from an 'act of God' such as an earthquake.

In 'Christian Terrorists' he insists that the Lords Resistance Army of Uganda - who murder, mutilate, rape and kidnap - are 'Christian Terrorists' rather than converts to a 'demonic' personality cult with some Biblical references. He insisted they be classified as 'Christian'

Given that Al Qaeda are not as extreme as eh - I asked him explicity:

shafique wrote:So do you think Al Qaeda is too soft for not agreeing with you that it's ok to enslave and rape virgins - just as long as 'god told you to do it'?

But then again, given you have claimed the LRA terrorists are Christian - and they DO actually practice enslavement and rape, do you condone or condemn them? (I presume as they aren't white or Israelite you'll have no problems in condemning these Christians for raping and slaughter - but perhaps you think the Israelites were better than the LRA?)

philosophy-dubai/biblical-war-crimes-t40711-105.html#p330779


Note the reference to 'white' or 'Israelite' is a reference to another thread:
philosophy-dubai/for-baruch-goldstein-t37863-60.html#p324914

What this thread was asking though - was whether YOU joined me in condemning a Jewish Religious terrorist who happened to be American born, white, educated and rational - and also a person whose actions are venerated by some in Israel.

(Oh, and here is eh stating that the LRA are Christians - it was from a thread in the Politics section:

event horizon wrote:

You didn't answer my simple question though - do you consider the LRA as Christian terrorists? (I said I do not, so they are clearly converts).

Yes, they seem to be Christian terrorists. Which means they are the born again types and not actual converts.

http://www.dubaiforums.com/dubai-politics-talk/christian-muslim-convert-terror-counts-the-results-t38110-120.html#p320768 )

I trust this meets Melika's new stricter requirements.


I am happy to change my opinion of who is the most extreme poster here - I think there's an argument for Chevaliers to make a bid for the crown - but he struggles sometimes to put a coherent paragraph together!

Cheers,
Shafique

Wow, I was expecting some slam-dunk evidence that I am an extremist.

I must say, I kinda am disappointed.

Let me know when I start justifying (condoning) the beheading of 700 unarmed men and *boys* because my prophet (though he's not my final prophet) had them beheaded and may have even took part in the savage beheadings himself.

Then again, I don't justify wife beating and try to compare it to passages in the NT saying that wives have authority over their husbands.

Oh well, we'll see through acclamation if I'm really the most extreme religious fanatic on this site.

I have my doubts, though.

Let me know when I start justifying (condoning) the beheading of 700 unarmed men and *boys* because my prophet (though he's not my final prophet) had them beheaded and may have even took part in the savage beheadings himself.

Well Eh, how many times have we told you that, before a battle started, he'd patiently waited for 10 years at least, So that he spent enough time to preach publicly to establish a ground for religion amongst his folks. You already know that despite so many evidences that he was the true prophet of God, disbelievers continued to hostile him and persecuted. Finally he was given permission to fight against those disbelievers who were threatening islamic unity,peace,endurance and its infinity..
So what don't you understand about this?
Nobody enforced those armed men to get hostile against prophet, right?
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/319/

so what shall we do? believe in your preach or God'?

(though he's not my final prophet)

[Deleted - not relevant to this thread]

Is the young lad protesting that he's not an extremist?

I guess he's taking a leaf out of Al Qaeda's book and trying to avoid the facts (yet again).

Berrin - do you know anyone else who condones the kidnapping of virgins, and the slaughters of their families - i.e. like the Israelites did in the Bible or the 'Christian Terrorist' LRA do today? Surely only our young American poster can't be the only one here who can't join us in condemning the war crimes of the Israelites and don't buy the excuse 'God told us to do it'??

What's that.. oh, he thinks the Muslims committed crimes too.. oh great come back - but does that make the Israelite crimes better? I've unreservedly condemned any war crimes - especially any that involved the cold blooded murder of women and children and the enslavement of maidens, it's just a shame the young lad can't bring himself to join us in this condemnation.

I even condemned war crimes he's imagined took place during the Prophet's time (but I have pointed out that what Historians call 'clement punishments' he insists are war crimes - and yet he doesn't see the hypocrisy that all the 'crimes' he accuses the Muslims of pale into insignificance against the Israelite crime he refuses to condemn - no record is there of the slaughter of women and children, or the mass enslavement of 32,000 virgins!)

So, is there really anyone who has more extreme religous views than our young Bible thumper from the US? If there is, let his words be known!


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:What's that.. oh, he thinks the Muslims committed crimes too.. oh great come back - but does that make the Israelite crimes better?

Funny, I ponder this to myself whenever Muslims bring up English holidays on a thread about indoctrinating children to become 'martyrs'.

shafique wrote:I've unreservedly condemned any war crimes

The silver lining is that you don't consider the wholesale slaughter of unarmed men and teenage boys to be a war crime - if the guy orchestrating the massacre is Muhammad.

Mighty hollow words, indeed.

shafique wrote:I even condemned war crimes he's imagined took place during the Prophet's time (but I have pointed out that what Historians call 'clement punishments' he insists are war crimes

Hey, I could quote historians with all sorts of weird personal beliefs (and when did you quote historians? Or in your world, is selectively digging for one historian's account suddenly make this a consensus belief amongst historians?)

The facts speak for themselves. I don't need a single guy, alive during the nineteenth century, to tell me that the mass beheading of hundreds of unarmed civilians is not a war crime - even though he did not actually say that.

You really are grasping at straws if you need to repeat ad nauseum one historian's belief. Which Muslim missionary site did you happen to first come across his quote, btw?

shafique wrote:If there is, let his words be known!

Just let me know when you have found any quote from me where I 'condone' anything mentioned in this thread.

[Deleted - not relevant to this thread]

Thanks for quoting me saying I unreservedly condemn war crimes.

Compare and contrast that with your stance on the Israelites' killing of babies and enslavement of 32,000 unmarried women. I unreservedly condmemn this war crime (nothing hollow about this statement).

If you can match my unreserved condemnation, we can move on - if you can't, then you stand accused of being the most extreme religious fanatic here - as even your imagined war crimes of the early Muslims (which I condemned, but showed was more a figment of your active imagination) don't meet this level of brutality.


Will you join me in condemning the cold-hearted butchering of children by the Israelites 'in the name of God'?



Anything but a 'yes' will sound extremely hollow.


Over to you.


[Mod note -Taking a lead from Melika, I will be deleting posts or portions of posts not related to Fanaticism and beliefs of posters - this thread was itself spun off from another thread - so let's keep on topic - this applies to Berrin, myself etc - I've also deleted the 'spelling mistakes' posts above. Berrin/Eh - you can start a new thread on who the last prophet you both believe in is.]



Cheers,
Shafique

Continuously deleting posts in a thread about religous fanatics...how ironic.

Well, perhaps you see a link between religious fanaticism and deleting posts that aren't related to the topic, I guess we'll chalk this down to another issue we disagree on.

In the scheme of things - unless a Mod is deleting posts because 'god told them to', I can't quite follow your logic FD.

It wasn't a rhetorical question I asked - is there anyone who is more extreme a religious fanatic poster here than eh, based on what people have written (and not imagined to be/have said etc)?

I'm sure I am not the only one who thinks that not condemning the slaughtering babies and the enslavement of 32,000 virgins by Israelites because of a belief that God sanctioned this is the most extreme religious view posted on these forums.

Cheers,
Shafique

Oh this is going to be fun New Mod Vs Old Mod.

Well, we can now add this quote as further evidence:

event horizon wrote:Peace with Islam and Muslims is impossible. The only time Muslims seek peace is when they need to reload.

dubai-politics-talk/muslims-for-peace-fox-news-interview-t42497.html#p341748

And Flying Dutchman when asked whether he agreed or disagreed with young eh's statement, decides not to come out and say he disagrees and starts a new thread. But still, FD isn't as extreme as eh - so still no competition for the title yet.

Cheers,
Shafique

To add to the list of extremist beliefs posted on the forum, young eh has now said that the glorification of killing during the Crusades is ok with him.

At the time of posting, he has yet to condemn the glorification of killing in the name of Christ.

But in truth the knights of Christ fight the battles of their Lord with all tranquillity of conscience, fearing neither sin by the death of their enemies nor the danger of their own death, because death inflicted or suffered for Christ’s sake bears no trace of crime and often brings the merit of glory.
..
The knight of Christ, I say, kills with tranquil conscience..
..
The Christian glories in the death of a pagan, because Christ is glorified;
..

dubai-politics-talk/malecide-crusaders-killing-nane-christ-t42887.html#p344476

We need to add to the list of beliefs of event horizon, the fact he refuses to apologise or take back a racist slur against African Christians - where he called them a 'people' who are superstitious cannibals. His only retort is that others make references to rednecks in America.

dubai-politics-talk/child-witches-denounced-african-pastors-t43911-15.html#p352550

Oh boy, I must have really ruffled your feathers when I re-posted your racist remarks:

dubai-politics-talk/child-witches-denounced-african-pastors-t43911-15.html#p352619

Well, you can't say I didn't give you an opportunity to take back your racist views. But it is a weird argument that you think redneck references justifies a belief that African Christian Priests are 'people' who eat humans out of superstitious beliefs.

Not your most extreme belief - but right up there with the others.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well, it looks like we have to add conspiracy theorist to the growing list:

event horizon wrote: Muslim spokespersons and their useful idiot stooges, always careful to highlight perceived media bias against Islam in the West, are often (always) silent on the real bias and libel spread in the Muslim world against Jews and Christians.

dubai-politics-talk/what-christianophobia-christians-are-targets-sez-qaeda-t44001.html#p352975

Ooooh - the mooslims and their media propaganda machines, spreading libel and lies about Jews and Christians. Just a short step away from believing Muslims drink the blood of Christian babies and want to take over the world because of hidden messages Guru Bob has uncovered in the Quran! Scary stuff - but perhaps just a hang-over from Halloween?




Cheers,
Shafique

Ok, so high ranking and respected Egyptians spreading rumors that Christians are kidnapping women who convert to Islam or stockpiling Israeli made weapons isn't libel.

Consider: on September 15, prominent Egyptian Muhammad Salim al-Awwa, ex-secretary general of the International Union for Muslim Scholars, appeared on Al Jazeera and, in a wild tirade, accused the Copts of "stocking arms and ammunitions in their churches and monasteries"— imported from Israel, no less, since "Israel is in the heart of the Coptic Cause" — and "preparing to wage war against Muslims."

But surely that doesn't count. And Egypt probably doesn't also spread these baseless and sensationalizing rumors.

Islamist leaders began to circulate baseless rumors that the Church and Pope Shenouda III "kidnap" Coptic women who willingly convert to Islam, and trap them in desert monasteries, "torturing" and "re-indoctrinating" them back to Christianity — even when the women in question publicly insist they never converted to Islam.

Wuh-woh.

Did he just say 'Islamist leaders'?

It must be Fox News that is spreading libel stories against Egyptian Christians, not Muslims.

One does find that conspiracy theorists do tend to believe they are right - otherwise they'll just be comedians out to shock and entertain.

Another way to spot one is that they'll take a factoid and then wildly exaggerate.

Sigh.

Cheers,
Shafique

Nina Shea's group — the Center for Religious Freedom — examined textbooks used during the past school year, and found the following teachings, which were verified by NBC News:

* Jews and Christians are "enemies" of Muslims.
* Every religion other than Islam is "false."
* "The hour [of Judgment] will not come until the Muslims fight the Jews and kill them."

"It's taught that Christians and Jews are the enemy of the Muslim," says Shea. "And that the Muslim must wage jihad in order to spread the faith in battle against the infidel."

What's more, an eighth grade text equates Jews with "apes" and Christian infidels with "swine." A tenth grade text teaches that the life of a Muslim is worth twice that of a non-Muslim.

"This is the ideological foundation for building tomorrows' terrorists," says Shea.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13804825

That's a pretty interesting belief, so anti-Jewish and anti-Christian views in the Muslim world, taking various forms and spread through different mediums, are all just 'exaggeration'.

Wonder why Egyptian and Iraqi Muslims would call for a Christian bloodbath following 'exaggerated' reports coming from Egypt (and al-Jazeera) that Christians were kidnapping women and stockpiling Israeli arms in their churches and monasteries?

Due to all these allegations, since last month, there have been at least ten mass demonstrations in Egypt — most numbering in the thousands — condemning the Copts, the Coptic Church, and Pope Shenouda. The "Front of Islamic Egypt" issued a statement promising the Copts a "blood bath." Most recently, on October 8, Muslim demonstrators chanted "Shenouda, just wait, we will dig your grave with our own hands," while burning the 86 year-old pope's effigy.

Exaggerated. Nothing to see here, just move along.

http://www.raymondibrahim.com/8081/copt ... on-mubarak

Raymond Ibrahim - the Islamophobic Cash Cow! LOL
dubai-politics-talk/qaeda-terrorism-political-religious-t42665-15.html#p343570

Perhaps this time you will defend Ibrahim's reputation?

But - are you trying to justify your conspiracy theory view? In a thread about your extremist views? Wow.

Cheers,
Shafique

What's my conspiracy theory view?

Priceless!

shafique wrote:http://www.dubaiforums.com/philosophy-dubai/most-extreme-religous-fanatic-here-t41961-30.html#p352984

So, again, what is it?

My belief that stories are made up against Jews and Christians in the Muslim world?

That's the conspiracy theory?

You do realise that this thread lists all your extreme views, eh - don't you?

The fact you believe the conspiracy theory Moooslims are libelling Christians and Jews 'in the Muslim world' and use the likes of Raymond Ibrahim as a source (and still won't come out and defend him), is really telling.

Your belief that all Muslims are inherently violent is bad enough:

event horizon wrote:Peace with Islam and Muslims is impossible. The only time Muslims seek peace is when they need to reload.

But shouldn't you really be addressing your other extreme views (such as not condemning the slaughter of children if it is done by people who believe God told them to do it, or modern day religious terrorist Goldstein etc?)

As I said, conspiracy theorists all can show factoids in support of their theories and are adamant they aren't crazy.

Cheers,
Shafique

Well, let's see if your theory pans out. According to this article, several Arab/Muslim states promote Holocaust denial/revisionism:

Virtually alone among peoples of the world, Arabs appear to have won a free pass when it comes to denying or minimizing the Holocaust. Hezbollah leader Hasan Nasrallah has declared to his supporters that "Jews invented the legend of the Holocaust." Syrian President Bashar al-Assad recently told an interviewer that he doesn't have "any clue how [Jews] were killed or how many were killed." And Hamas's official Web site labels the Nazi effort to exterminate Jews "an alleged and invented story with no basis."

Such Arab viewpoints are not exceptional. A respected Holocaust research institution recently reported that Egypt, Qatar and Saudi Arabia all promote Holocaust denial and protect Holocaust deniers. The records of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum show that only one Arab leader at or near the highest level of government -- a young prince from a Persian Gulf state -- has ever made an official visit to the museum in its 13-year history. Not a single official textbook or educational program on the Holocaust exists in an Arab country. In Arab media, literature and popular culture, Holocaust denial is pervasive and legitimized.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 01417.html

So, rather than address your belief that it is ok to slaughter kids if you think God told the murderers to do it, you want to try and convince me that you're not a conspiracy nut for stating that Muslims spread libel against Christians and Jews in the Muslim world.

I refer you to my previous comments about factoids and exaggerations.

But hey - I don't doubt you have a long list of snippets you can use to justify your extreme views.

Cheers,
Shafique

Take a break people, you've been at it for sometime now I think a vacation is long overdue

A bump for newcomers in these parts.

Some guys aren't really interested in honest debate.. we call them trolls.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:A bump for newcomers in these parts.

Some guys aren't really interested in honest debate.. we call them trolls.

Cheers,
Shafique

And also try not to feed them