"What About-ery"

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"What about-ery" Aug 04, 2010
I came across this quote from Anthony Julius today in Haaretz. He disapproves of a commonly seen fanbois tactic in these forums. 'A playground defense' and 'least attractive form of defense'.


Q: What about those who argue that the disproportionate attention paid to Israel and its actions is in some way itself tainted with anti-Semitism?

A: This is what is called "what about-ery." What about this other country, or that one. I think it's the least attractive form of defense. To say "Well, yes, maybe I did do this and this, but over there, they did worse." Well, this creates a playground defense when you are resisting a punishment from the teacher, but I don't think it has any real moral weight to it. Criticisms have to be addressed in their own terms, and if they are felt to be disproportionate it's unfortunate, but I don't think it necessarily is anti-Semitism.

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/fe ... s-1.305875

(The article itself is interesting - as it covers anti-semitism in England, but I just wanted to extract this denunciation of 'what about-ery' for this thread. Let's start another thread if anyone wants to discuss his views on anti-semitism - I largely agree with his views, but some parts I disagree with)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
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Re: "What about-ery" Aug 04, 2010
What Antonius has to say about antisemitism, sounds very familiar:

It writes out of the history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the massacres of Jews in Hebron (August 1929), Jerusalem (February 1948), and Kfar Etzion (May 1948), while treating the massacre of Arabs at Deir Yasin (April 1948) as proof of fundamental Zionist iniquity.
It plays variations on well-established antisemitic tropes and deploys some new ones of its own — principally, that Israel may suitably be compared with Nazi Germany and/or Apartheid South Africa.
It treats UN, and UN committee and council, resolutions on Israel as if passed by impartial, apolitical bodies. It denies the existence of Islamic antisemitism, save perhaps as a Western import and of no practical consequence. While it excoriates racist sentiments found among Israelis, or in the complex history of Zionism, it refuses to acknowledge the racist themes towards Jews to be found in many currents of Arab nationalism. It overstates, on every occasion, and beyond reason, any case that could be made against Israel’s actions or policies, and wildly overstates the significance of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict in world affairs.
Longstanding antisemites now embrace “anti-Zionism” as a cover for their Jew-hatred. This is because, in relation to Israel, the antisemite finds a protected voice. The desire to destroy Jews is reconfigured as the desire to destroy or dismantle the Jewish state.
These, then, are England’s gifts to Jew-hatred. The antisemitism of no other country has this density of history. The antisemitism of no other country is so continuously innovative. On many occasions in the history of antisemitism, England arrives first.
Flying Dutchman
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Re: "What About-ery" Aug 04, 2010
Sigh. FD - I did suggest we discuss his points about anti-semitism in another thread.

This thread is really about What about-ery - a tactic you are fond of.

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: "What about-ery" Aug 04, 2010
Ah, 'What about-ery'. I admit, you are an expert when it comes to such a fallacy. Perhaps because you've refined it down to a science:

philosophy-dubai/professor-richard-dawkins-wants-convert-islamic-world-t40797.html#p329314
event horizon
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Re: "What about-ery" Aug 04, 2010
Flying Dutchman
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Re: "What About-ery" Aug 05, 2010
Cool, so we have unanimity amongst the loons that 'what about-ery' is a playground defense and has no moral weight.

In a deliciously ironic way they have pointed this out by engaging in 'what about-ery'! Very clever of them. ;)

So, now we've established a nice label for this defense tactic (and I do admit, I have indeed resorted to it in the past as well), let's see whether we can label it when it rears it's ugly little head in the future.

In fact - let's keep a count from now on Loon 'what about-ery' vs that of others (Berrin, you better restrain yourself! ;) )

Cheers,
Shafique
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Re: "What about-ery" Aug 17, 2010
eh couldn't really hold out, so many instances of this 'playground' defence today. ;)

A classic case in the Malecide thread - itself a spin off of a thread about Holy Wars which he started. In it St Bernard is quoted egging on Crusaders and glorifying the killings done in the name of Christ (of non-Christians).

And the defence is a classic 'what about' what the Quran says about martyrs?? :?

(Sometimes it like catching fish in a barrel) :mrgreen:

Cheers,
Shafique
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