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Yes, herve - clearly only Muslims who carry act of terrorism can be labelled terrorists - you'll find excuses for anyone else.

'Nobody called it an act of terrorism' - were you in a submarine at the time, or did you just not see the references to the suicide bombing of a federal building using a plane as an act of terrorism? Or did you just wish all these references away?



Anyway - kanelli will be jumping in anytime soon to tell us that this is getting sillier and off topic now.

You obviously have strongly held beliefs - and good on you for holding on to these in the light of evidence to the contrary. I salute you, mon ami and bid you good day.

Cheers,
Shafique

Interesting, very interesting!
Someone ( I think it was Ms Bora) calls BM as the most intelligent poster on this thread, and how all that she says is tongue in cheek, and how she has a sharp wit etc., etc. And just as I was beginning to feel that DDS and the rest of us may have made a terrible mistake and been wrong about her being a BNP voter and a white supremacist, out pops Ms BM herself and sets the record straight! LOL.
So now there you have it in black and white! Now, begins the damage control: of course; you dont know how it is in a free country, and voting for a party blah blah blah by Ms Bora.
So, she can vote the BNP to make a point about immigration?
Excuse moi, and my alcohol sodden brain. There is something that I dont understand here. To me this is straight hypocrisy.
Of course, the Muslims are down, so kick them in the balls. The Muslims are down because of the vengeful acts by a bunch of crazed fanatics from Saudia. I have no clear idea of what actually happened, but I did see Fahrenheit 911, and I would suggest all of you who post here and have an interest in the subject see it again after all these years. We can even discuss the history of all this and see where THAT leads us to.
As for xenophobic racist white supremacists, I have yet to find an intelligent one, with anything in their arguments but just hot air. I know of many many people voting for BNP type parties in Europe.
Its like stabbing someone with a knife, and then saying "Knife? What knife?"
Peace!:bom:

zonker wrote:Interesting, very interesting!
Someone ( I think it was Ms Bora) calls BM as the most intelligent poster on this thread, and how all that she says is tongue in cheek, and how she has a sharp wit etc., etc. And just as I was beginning to feel that DDS and the rest of us may have made a terrible mistake and been wrong about her being a BNP voter and a white supremacist, out pops Ms BM herself and sets the record straight! LOL.
So now there you have it in black and white! Now, begins the damage control: of course; you dont know how it is in a free country, and voting for a party blah blah blah by Ms Bora.
So, she can vote the BNP to make a point about immigration?
Excuse moi, and my alcohol sodden brain. There is something that I dont understand here. To me this is straight hypocrisy.
Of course, the Muslims are down, so kick them in the balls. The Muslims are down because of the vengeful acts by a bunch of crazed fanatics from Saudia. I have no clear idea of what actually happened, but I did see Fahrenheit 911, and I would suggest all of you who post here and have an interest in the subject see it again after all these years. We can even discuss the history of all this and see where THAT leads us to.
As for xenophobic racist white supremacists, I have yet to find an intelligent one, with anything in their arguments but just hot air. I know of many many people voting for BNP type parties in Europe.
Its like stabbing someone with a knife, and then saying "Knife? What knife?"
Peace!:bom:

Are you drinking wood alcohol or some kind of home brew???

What I said was: BM was the sharpest knife in the drawer when it came to a sense of humor and much of it is tongue in cheek. Unfortunately if you have a sense of humor that is equivalent to a butter knife, it will go over one's head. I will add that the crazed fanatics you refer to are not exclusive to Saudis if that is what you mean when you say "Saudia".

As for for the rest of it, I will leave it to BM. She is very capable of speaking her mind and takes pleasure in addressing those who think that her thinking is wrong, while their thinking is right and correct.

Thou heapest so much scorn on moi Ms Bora! I but consume Chivas Regal to drown out mine sorrow!
As for my humour going over over your head, all that I can say is next time I shall try to aim a little lower.
And yes, when I said Saudia, I meant the Saudis indeed. I am impressed, I have to admit, with the depth of your wit.
As for BM, yes, I think you are right, she will soon be here to defend the indefensible......with more verbiage.
Peace!

@Zonker, Another non Brit who is getting his knickers in a twist about my voting habits, how amusing.

Its a good thing there is a "rest of the world" out there. British Imperialism is a thing of the past. Your (Not So) Royal Family is a bunch of perverts and faggots maintained at the tax-payer's expense. Arrogance is nothing but a display of unbounded ignorance. You dont rule the world anymore, baby, yours is just a tiny island slowly sinking out of sight what with its monumental economic problems. Its not the fault of the "foreigners" you know.....forget about white supremacy.

Did your claim for housing benefit get turned down when you were bumming it in the UK or something?

-- Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:05 am --

@ Shaf, you've got to hand it to Herve, he is the real deal here. All your statistics in the world can't compare with someone at the sharp end. You shuffle your bits of paper and he does the dirty deeds. I know who I'd rather be standing beside when the sh1t hits the fan.

Oh BM! More scorn!...."Non Brit", "claim for housing benefit turned down", "bumming it in the UK", I cant take this anymore!!
Well, for your info, non of the above, except that I am proud to be a Non Brit!
Now, if that is all that has turned you into a BNP voter.........
But its time for me to hit the sack.....so I look forward to continuing this discussion with you at a later date. In the meantime, do continue to enlighten us with your brilliant views.

-- Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:19 am --

Oh, and bon nuit......and au revoir! To both of you ladies

zonker wrote:Oh BM! More scorn!...."Non Brit", "claim for housing benefit turned down", "bumming it in the UK", I cant take this anymore!!
Well, for your info, non of the above, except that I am proud to be a Non Brit!
Now, if that is all that has turned you into a BNP voter.........
But its time for me to hit the sack.....so I look forward to continuing this discussion with you at a later date. In the meantime, do continue to enlighten us with your brilliant views.

-- Wed Dec 08, 2010 10:19 am --

Oh, and bon nuit......and au revoir! To both of you ladies

Sleep well, I know I do

BM - if it is ok with you, I'll stick to the stats from the police. I think it odd that someone who is familiar with the intelligence communityh thinks someone flying a plane into a building in a suicide attack with the intention of killing civilians is NOT a terrorist!

(Stack said in his suicide note that he wanted to increase the body count, and he targeted civilians - ergo he's a suicide bomber terrorist who happens to be white, American and non-Muslim).

But hey - I totally get you guys. Why let facts/evidence get in the way of 'beliefs'?



Cheers,
Shafique

Sorry Shaf, but in the cold light of day, when I go on the London Underground or anywhere else crowded for that matter, who am I sneaking a glance at? It's just the way of the world at the moment. I lived in London in the early 70's. When I went in a pub in those days, I used to freeze if I heard an Irish accent.

Thanks for sharing BM - I've yet to meet a prejudiced person who could not justify to themselves and others their prejudices.

No one is saying that Singling out muslims can't be justified in people's minds - we're just point out that it is silly.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, can you explain to me why it is that when anyone expresses an opinion here that differs from yours, DDS or Zonker's that they are silly, racist or a white supremacist? Have you looked at how few people contribute to this topic? When anyone joins in they are given a label. It's no wonder people just prefer to keep their mouths shut. Maybe if you stopped preaching and thought about how others felt you may achieve something. Whether it is unsavioury to you or not, the fact is that most British people feel their everyday threat in life comes from the Muslim population in Britain. Whether that threat can be proven in your stats is one thing, but in reality it's another. I know you're going to come back with a load of blah blah but hey, what's new?

I don't have any problems with people holding different opinions - I think we should be very tolerant of people who think the world is flat, Michael Jackson was an alien, Fox News is 'fair and balanced', the BNP isn't racist etc.

I also think that indeed people should be challenged when they give their opinions -eg. that 'singling out Muslims' is silly.

I just happen to believe that if a theory can be tested with evidence, then it should be. I don't say that everyone should give up their silly beliefs when the evidence shows the beliefs are silly - I just make the point that theories and beliefs that can be examined against facts should be.

My opinion is indeed that racism and Islamophobia and anti-Semitism are extremely distasteful and morally wrong. I think I'm entitled to that opinion. That opinion, though, has nothing to do with the fact that some beliefs are silly - when tested against facts.


Cheers,
Shafique

Do you all actually believe someone to alter their views, based on what "someone" posts in a forum ? seriously how deluded are you all , exactly ?

Hey - I did change my views when facts were presented on this forum.

I thought that Americans hated Muslims more than Jews - but when the evidence was provided (by eh) that showed that there were more attacks against Jews than Muslims (as recorded by the FBI) - I changed my view:

shafique wrote:Yes, can't argue with that.

See - the boy comes through after all. The FBI statistics do show indeed that in the US the yanks do commit more crimes against Jews (and Christians) than against Muslims.
..
But fair is fair, it appears that the Americans do hate the Jews more than they hate the Muslims - according to FBI stats. It shows that I shouldn't be so quick to judgement based on media reports - perhaps the US doesn't actually have as many people who share the Islamophobia of some of our posters as popular opinion would have it.

Thanks for providing the stats eh - fascinating to see that in the States it appears that a Muslim should feel safer than a Jew. I'm happy to join you in campaigning for greater safety for Jews in America - as this perfectly complements my stance against injustices committed against other groups in other parts of the world.

philosophy-dubai/difference-between-antisemitism-and-islamophobia-t40515-30.html#p326846

Rare - but does happen!

Now, back to the topic (and zubber - I generally agree with you - people don't tend to change their views!)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:I generally agree with you - people don't tend to change their views!

Then I would like to advise all who hold this similar opinion to cease from going out of their way to convince people over what their convictions are.

@shaf, you can't help yourself can you? If it doesn't match your opinion , it is silly.

@Zubber, this topic was started to make me see the error of my ways. It's reinforced them if anything.

Bethsmother - As i said before, i admire your strength in dealing with all this onslaught, and im vexed at your participation in the responses rather than just ignoring them.

I think the concept of "having an opinion" can only be understood by people who live in a free society, unlike the middle east where you are shushed constantly for voicing your thoughts which can lead to possible incarceration. One of the reasons why they will remain in dark ages infested with a myriad of problems in every sphere of their society. Which is not only pathetic but downright d1sgusting.

Bethsmum wrote:@shaf, you can't help yourself can you? If it doesn't match your opinion , it is silly.

Nope - I respectfully beg to differ. I don't view all differing opinions are silly. I can have a different opinion with people who think fornication is not wrong, or who drink alcohol and eat pork - and not think their opinion is silly.

I have no problem in acknowledging that people will vote for disagreeable political parties - be they Hitler's national socialists or the BNP. Their opinion on who to vote for is there's - and they are entitled to it.

But singling out Muslims - be it for employment or in terms of security, is indeed silly when one examines the evidence. I can't think of a more appropriate word to describe Singling out a section that only contributes 0.4% of the problem you wish to tackle. Those be the stats, and they are in contradiction to the beliefs.

If you choose to not believe the stats, then you can construct a world view in which the belief is not 'silly' - but that goes for those who believe the world is flat etc.

Cheers,
Shafique

zonker wrote:Thou heapest so much scorn on moi Ms Bora! I but consume Chivas Regal to drown out mine sorrow!
As for my humour going over over your head, all that I can say is next time I shall try to aim a little lower.
And yes, when I said Saudia, I meant the Saudis indeed. I am impressed, I have to admit, with the depth of your wit.
As for BM, yes, I think you are right, she will soon be here to defend the indefensible......with more verbiage.
Peace!

Good to see your humor can slip through your sorrow. Humor? Where were the friggin smilies??? You know the rule zonkers, a smilely means "I'm being funny" or a winkie means "I'm being sarcastic". Now I can see how I was so misunderstood in the past.

shafique wrote:BM - if it is ok with you, I'll stick to the stats from the police. I think it odd that someone who is familiar with the intelligence communityh thinks someone flying a plane into a building in a suicide attack with the intention of killing civilians is NOT a terrorist!

(Stack said in his suicide note that he wanted to increase the body count, and he targeted civilians - ergo he's a suicide bomber terrorist who happens to be white, American and non-Muslim).

But hey - I totally get you guys. Why let facts/evidence get in the way of 'beliefs'?



Cheers,
Shafique

You busted, you did not even read the note , you dont know what you are talking about, and only repeat propaganda, nowhere in his note he said he wanted to increase the body count or that he targeted civilians
Again , this is not terrorism but suicide, you are playing semantic. Timothy Mc Veil was terrorism.
Here is the note
http://www.statesman.com/blogs/content/ ... aking_news

Did you read the note?

Nothing changes unless there is a body count (unless it is in the interest of the wealthy sows at the government trough). In a government full of hypocrites from top to bottom, life is as cheap as their lies and their self-serving laws.

I know I’m hardly the first one to decide I have had all I can stand. It has always been a myth that people have stopped dying for their freedom in this country, and it isn’t limited to the blacks, and poor immigrants. I know there have been countless before me and there are sure to be as many after. But I also know that by not adding my body to the count, I insure nothing will change. I choose to not keep looking over my shoulder at “big brother” while he strips my carcass, I choose not to ignore what is going on all around me, I choose not to pretend that business as usual won’t continue; I have just had enough.

I can only hope that the numbers quickly get too big to be white washed and ignored that the American zombies wake up and revolt; it will take nothing less. I would only hope that by striking a nerve that stimulates the inevitable double standard, knee-jerk government reaction that results in more stupid draconian restrictions people wake up and begin to see the pompous political thugs and their mindless minions for what they are. Sadly, though I spent my entire life trying to believe it wasn’t so, but violence not only is the answer, it is the only answer.

Suicide bomber aims plane at building full of civilians and luckily only injures those he's targetting.

How is this NOT terrorism? Had he just taken some pills - that would be suicide. Flying a plane into a federal building (not military) is suicide bombing. QED.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf, you are a little sweetie, I simply cannot argue with a man that says the word 'Fornication' LOL
Who says that in 2010? Fornication. Fornication. I love that word! The verb would be 'to fornicate'. LMAO

Don't you just love the queen's English? LOL

(BTW - speaking of the f word - now on Season 2 of Shameless - loving it)

Ok - now we really must get back on topic! Enough of this silliness.

Cheers,
Shafique

We can debate all day on the definition of terrorism, that is not the topic.
What I am saying is that there is a solution that works, either you take it and save lives, or you dont and people die and in between everybody get un necessarily strip searched.
The solution is profiling, which is a politically correct term for singling out Muslims, the most likely bombers.
So far you have failed to give me one name of a suicide attack on a commercial airliner who was not an Islamist.
Shoe bomber, underwear bomber, mail bomber, whatever, we got lucky because they were inept bombers, but they made it through because there was no profiling. profiling would have pointed them. so profiling can reduce to zero the risk of having a suicide bomber on your plane, like El Al does.
Mc Veil, or the texas suicidee did not board a commercial plane, it is not the same MO, nor it is the same targets.
But I do understand now, that you oppose "profiling" because you belong to this community and do not want to be singled out and be rubber gloved because of that. Too bad, convert to Christianity then if you dont want to be associated with this minority of criminals who stains your community.


oh ........and look who was arrested yesterday trying to blow up an Army center, Mohamed Osman Mohamud,
that does not sound separatist to me, Corsica, Basque, Irish, or white supremacist ?????? NO
Get over it, and accept the fact.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101208/ap_ ... _bomb_plot

Oh thats the story of my life Ms Bora! Never know what the ladies actually want . More smileys, of course! And a wink for sarcasm. Yes, ma'am! Got it!

And Ms BM: I agree with you about 'Fornication'. Lets just say: fornicate the BNP and all its followers; though I have to admit, the Muslims fornicate a lot more, like rabbits, and you see the little products of their fornication all over the place.
I would say, educate more, fornicate less. Both for the BNP as well as the Muslims.
I hope that was all on topic?
Peace!

I particularly like the logic of comparing the worst act in one group against the most benign act in another group. And then the gall to say that the quoting of statistical facts is somehow dishonest! You've got to admire the chutzpah!

7/7 bombings

7/21 bombings (which didn't kill only because of faulty explosives)

Madrid bombings

Metro bombings

Suicide operations inside Europe or involving Muslim Europeans outside of Europe

Countless mass casualty bomb plots, including suicide operations

Hey, as I said, you're free to believe that there isn't a qualitative difference Islamic terrorism (not terrorism carried out by Muslims) to the majority of the terrorist acts in that list, such throwing a lit firecracker in an empty field.

But some people are convinced that they are right to advocate singling out Muslims - despite the evidence and logic. That is silly.

Tell that to El Al airways. I'm sure they could use a few more google experts to tell them how to run things.

Sure - we can analyse to death the 0.4% of terrorist acts committed by Muslims and compare them with the 99.6% of terrorist acts committed by non-Muslims. I've no problem with that.

Another lie? Didn't the Europol look at 'Islamic' terror attacks, not terror attacks carried out by Muslims?

I just hope that we're not being silly and believing the hype. Look what happened when you guys believed there were WMD in Iraq.

And suddenly Herve becomes an American.

LoL.

Or, let me guess, you knew all along what really would have happened. Too bad your own record of changing your story in the middle of a thread doesn't win my vote of confidence.

Believing the hype also means that agencies manufacture threats - just look at all the cases of entrapment.

Those poor Muslims. They were given numerous chances to walk away but those mean FBI guys forced them into wanting to blow up Jews and Christmas shoppers.

As I said in the previous post - I totally agree that there is nothing wrong in tackling the 0.4% of terrorist acts, we should seek to eliminate all forms of terrorism. I'm just pointing out that it would be silly to single out these guys and spend relatively less time on the 99.6%.

Yeah, I couldn't possibly imagine why the government would spend more of its time preventing airplane bombings than garbage fires.

the majority of the 0.4% terrorists who are Muslim are indeed numpties with little training. We should be glad they are not as competent as say Tim McVeigh.

They seem more than competent enough to me:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/200 ... al.450.jpg

Edit: Another confirmed lie.

The list was 'Islamist' terror attacks, not terror attacks carried out by Muslims.

http://www.europol.europa.eu/publicatio ... at2010.pdf

zonker wrote::lol: Oh thats the story of my life Ms Bora! Never know what the ladies actually want . More smileys, of course! And a wink for sarcasm. Yes, ma'am! Got it!

And Ms BM: I agree with you about 'Fornication'. Lets just say: fornicate the BNP and all its followers; though I have to admit, the Muslims fornicate a lot more, like rabbits, and you see the little products of their fornication all over the place.
I would say, educate more, fornicate less. Both for the BNP as well as the Muslims.
I hope that was all on topic?
Peace!

What the hell are you on about? I thought Muslims didn't drink?

-- Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:27 am --

I will share with you what happened today at BM's place of employment in Engerland.
BM was sitting at my desk working away, coffee in hand, when the door to the office opened and in walked a little Asian girl. BM's mind wandered back to DF and BM thought 'you couldn't make this up!'
Here was our first ethnic minority, delivering the post. She looked a bit lost, a little soul dressed in Western style clothes that were slightly too big for her.
Later in the day BM went to the kitchen to make herself yet another cup of coffee, the wine would have to wait till later.
In the kitchen was the little Asian girl, having her lunch. the following conversation took place.
'alright?' says BM
'Yes' says the little girl
'New job?'
'I'm on work experience, I don't get paid'
'Really?'
'The people are really friendly here and I love your houses, they are so pretty'
'where do you come from?'
'Nelson, Lancashire' (BM smiles)
'What you doing round here?'
'I'm a Muslim'
'Really?'
'Yes'
'what are you doing round here?'
'I'm not a very good Muslim'
'Really? Why?'
'I don't know much about Islam'
'Really?
'No'
'How come?'
'I don't practice it'
'What?'
'Being a Muslim'
'Oh'
'I live with my husband'
'oh, good, how old are you?'
'30'
'Really?' (BM is taken aback as she looks about 16)
'it was an arranged marriage'
'Really? How long have you been married?'
'A year'
'How's it going?'
'Alright'
'Only alright?'
'Yes' (very sad face from little Asian girl)
'Oh'
BM makes her escape back to her office. Yes, life is truely a b1tch for some of us women.

@Shaf - completely off topic - glad you are enjoying shameless - it gets better and better and a lot naughtier

Yes Joe, me and Shaf have discussed Shameless on a number of occasions. I always recommend watching from behind a cushion, especially for someone refering to sha&&ing as Fornication. Bless.

@BM - even more off topic - spurs in last 16 and top of group - can't believe redknapp is managing so well - never thought he was up to it