Not So Merciful

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Not so Merciful Jul 08, 2010
Human rights organisations exposes the hypocrisy in the fanboi arguments that Israel is merciful when it comes to treating Palestinians under occupation generally and those under siege in Gaza specifically - and that the Palestinians are ungrateful if they wish their children to fight for liberating Palestine

(Note this is from Ynet - not the most unbiased source of info):

Report: Gazans treated in Israel in life-threatening cases only

06.29.2010 | YNet

Human rights organizations say patients prevented from leaving Gaza for important medical procedures ‘against ethical codes.’ Government’s coordinator in territories: Report biased; we’ve approved more than 9,000 cases a year

Muhammad Abu Mustafa, a 52-year-old Gaza resident, suffers from a spinal disc herniation, which results in pain along his arm and numbness. Israel refuses to let him leave the Strip for a medical procedure in Jerusalem. His case is one of the examples included in a report authored by several organizations, which are accusing Israel of preventing medical treatment.

“He has 10 children and his life has turned into hell. He can’t sleep at night and all the pain killers he received no longer help,” his brother-in-law, Abed Rabbo Abu Mustafa, told Ynet.

Abu Mustafa was directed to the St. Joseph Hospital in east Jerusalem, and was turned down with the claim that his condition was not life-threatening.

According to an opinion written by Dr. Nachshon Shazar, an orthopedics specialist who examined the case, Abu Mustafa’s situation “could sometimes lead to a sudden deterioration which may lead to paralysis.”

The coordinator of the government’s activities in the territories said in response that the request was denied after it was revealed that such treatment is available in the Strip.

“We don’t have this treatment in Gaza and his condition is only getting worse,” the brother-in-law insisted. “It’s true that it’s not a life-saving procedure, but it’s also true that if he won’t receive immediate care he will become paralyzed. Muhammad was never turned down for security reasons. We have no explanation for the decision not to let him in.”

The Adalah organization, Physicians for Human Rights and Palestinian human rights group al-Mizan, published a joint statement accusing Israel of “implementing a consistent policy of distinguishing between life-threatening medical cases and other medical cases, as a basis for preventing patients from leaving the Gaza Strip for medical treatment.”

According to Adalah and the Gaza-based al-Mizan group, restricting the treatment for people who are not in a life-threatening condition is against medical ethical rules and international law. The organizations said they reached this conclusion based on an analysis of the cases in which Israel turned down appeals from Gazan patients to leave the Strip for medical treatment.

Expert: Considerations political

Data compiled by the organizations point to a high correlation between the level of risk and the authorities’ tendency to accept the request. The organizations said they had received 40 complaints from Gaza patients who had been turned down over the past few days.

“Even medical cases which are not life-threatening and which were rejected by Israel may still be medically urgent and lead to the loss of vital organs, loss of sight, disability, and etcetera.

“Making a distinction between a life-threatening and a non-life threatening medical condition contradicts medical ethics, according to which any patient or injured person must be given access to the best medical care available for them, regardless of the treatment’s urgency or the severity of the medical condition.

“This distinction contradicts the rules of humanitarian law and the international human rights law which recognize the right to life, the right to the integrity of one’s body and the right to human dignity, which are recognized as basic rights in Israel law as well.”

Dr. Harel Arzi, an orthopedic surgeon and a volunteer in Physicians for Human Rights, believes the distinction is “only semantic”, adding that Israel’s considerations are not only medical but also political.

The coordinator of the government’s activities in the territories said in response, “The report is biased and was written without giving Israel the right to respond. In 2009, the coordinator of the government’s activities in the territories and the Coordination and Liaison Authority in Gaza coordinated the departure of more than 9,000 Palestinian patients and their escorts from Gaza to receive military treatment in Israel.

“We regret the organization’s decision to publish these reports in a consistent and biased manner without cooperating and coordinating with Israeli elements.”


http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 55,00.html

shafique
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Re: Not so Merciful Jul 08, 2010
What a sick thread to justify this:

dubai-politics-talk/mother-ill-baby-saved-israel-wants-him-murder-them-t42486.html

You truly are this site's biggest nut-job and religious wacko.
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
Again, we see fanbois can't handle the truth - just have to resort to name calling.

It is interesting to contrast a loon blogger's spin and what Humanitarian Groups say:
“Making a distinction between a life-threatening and a non-life threatening medical condition contradicts medical ethics, according to which any patient or injured person must be given access to the best medical care available for them, regardless of the treatment’s urgency or the severity of the medical condition.

“This distinction contradicts the rules of humanitarian law and the international human rights law which recognize the right to life, the right to the integrity of one’s body and the right to human dignity, which are recognized as basic rights in Israel law as well.”


No surprise that the reigning 'most extreme religious nutter' isn't happy, citing international law seems to bring out the worst in our loon fanboi contingent here.

I mean look at this for the most extreme views in terms of war crimes and killings of civilians:
philosophy-dubai/most-extreme-religous-fanatic-here-t41961.html

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Shafique
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Re: Not so Merciful Jul 08, 2010
What a knee-jerking reaction to another thread where a mother of a Palestinian child in an Israeli hospital declares:

After Mohammed gets well, I will certainly want him to be a shahid.


They can still go to Egypt (if they are allowed by Hamas to leave)!
After all Hamas turned Gaza hospitals into torture chambers.
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
Fanbois/Loon's are restless it seems and the hype machines are in over-drive: mothers want to 'murder', hospitals are 'torture chambers' etc.

And the reason?

Israel's hypocrisy is exposed by an article in Israeli newspaper from a few weeks ago. Sigh.

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Shafique
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Re: Not so Merciful Jul 08, 2010
The true hypocricy is the fact that Egypt is not mentioned.

Of course the chance for the classic superhyperboling is not missed:

"restricting treatment for people who are not in a life-threatening condition is against international law."
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
I agree that Egypt is not blameless in the siege that was imposed at the behest of Israel and the US, but I fail to see why the Humanitarian Agency reports are hypocritical for pointing out Israeli actions - especially as fanbois try to make out that life is good in Gaza and Israel is merciful. Re-read the title of this thread and the original article.

I really don't understand the fanbois recurring argument that Israel's crimes can be mitigated because other people also commit crimes. It doesn't convince anyone except other fanbois.

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Shafique
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Re: Not so Merciful Jul 08, 2010
Since when is not treating people from an enemy enetity who are not in a life-threatening condition a crime? AFAIK most hospitals in the world refuse treatment of people without health insurance who are not in a life theatening condition and cannot pay the bill and are from an enemy entity.

For some comparison what other country treats thousands of people yearly from an enemy entity for free? North Korea, China, Sudan or Yemen maybe?
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
Your argument is with the Human Rights organisations whose reports are in the first post.

I really can't help you if you can't see what is wrong with denying medical treatment to a people under siege whose crime was to elect a less corrupt political party.

It's a typical loon response to blame the vicitms of Israeli crimes for Israel's actions. Bravo.

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Shafique
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
shafique wrote:Your argument is with the Human Rights organisations whose reports are in the first post.


My argument is against everybody who calls not treating people from an enemy entity who are not in a life-threatening condition a crime and against international law

shafique wrote:a people under siege


What siege? Last thing I read on this forum is that Egypt opened the border:

shafique wrote:with Egypt's border opening
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
Well, I'm with the Human Rights organisations who say:

“Making a distinction between a life-threatening and a non-life threatening medical condition contradicts medical ethics, according to which any patient or injured person must be given access to the best medical care available for them, regardless of the treatment’s urgency or the severity of the medical condition.

“This distinction contradicts the rules of humanitarian law and the international human rights law which recognize the right to life, the right to the integrity of one’s body and the right to human dignity, which are recognized as basic rights in Israel law as well.”


This thread was to highlight the hypocrisy of the fanbois who on the one hand try and make out that Israel is merciful and on the other hand blame Israel's victims when Israel's crimes are highlighted.

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Shafique
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Re: Not so Merciful Jul 08, 2010
LOL, with that reasoning a Palestinian woman from Gaza who demands a free breast implant in Israel and is refused constitutes a violation of international law. :drunken:
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
Ah, I love loon exaggeration - always good for a laugh.

I'm actually feeling a bit sorry for the fanbois these days - hardly anyone believes the Israeli spin anymore. But always good for a laugh. ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
shafique wrote:Again, we see fanbois can't handle the truth - just have to resort to name calling.

It is interesting to contrast a loon blogger's spin and what Humanitarian Groups say:
“Making a distinction between a life-threatening and a non-life threatening medical condition contradicts medical ethics, according to which any patient or injured person must be given access to the best medical care available for them, regardless of the treatment’s urgency or the severity of the medical condition.

“This distinction contradicts the rules of humanitarian law and the international human rights law which recognize the right to life, the right to the integrity of one’s body and the right to human dignity, which are recognized as basic rights in Israel law as well.”


No surprise that the reigning 'most extreme religious nutter' isn't happy, citing international law seems to bring out the worst in our loon fanboi contingent here.

I mean look at this for the most extreme views in terms of war crimes and killings of civilians:
philosophy-dubai/most-extreme-religous-fanatic-here-t41961.html

Cheers,
Shafique


FD's correct. America is not obligated to treat foreigners, especially ones from an enemy country.

But what does this thread have to do with your justification of a mother who wants her *treated* child to kill Israeli civilians?

Reminds me of this story where a Pal-Arab woman received treatment from Israeli doctors and returned the favor by attempting to kill them:

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_ ... ount_t.htm
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
I see, another fanboi is blaming the victims again.

Please get your stories straight - either Israel is being merciful when it treats the ill people under siege in Gaza or it is being 'strong but firm' when it violates international laws as stated by the quotes above.

If Gaza and the West Bank is now an 'enemy country' then Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders which are internationally recognised... oh, but the fanbois have a problem with this too... oh dear.

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Shafique
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
shafique wrote:I see, another fanboi is blaming the victims again.

Please get your stories straight - either Israel is being merciful when it treats the ill people under siege in Gaza or it is being 'strong but firm' when it violates international laws as stated by the quotes above.

If Gaza and the West Bank is now an 'enemy country' then Israel should withdraw to the 1967 borders which are internationally recognised... oh, but the fanbois have a problem with this too... oh dear.

Cheers,
Shafique


What does that have to do with the mother of her treated child (who was saved by Israeli donations and medical expertise) who says she wants her child to blow himself up in Jerusalem?
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
What was unclear - you need to get your stories straight.

What is fascinating is that the spin isn't working anymore - the Human Rights reports all clearly expose the illegalities of Israeli actions. You have no response other than to blame the victims.

shame on you.

But let's quote another part of the Haaretz article:
One of the most significant reports Eldar produced at the time was in July 1992, about Palestinian children who were hurt during the intifada.

"Back then no one believed that there could be such a thing as the IDF hurting children," he says sarcastically. "But I filmed disabled children, wounded children in hospitals, children who had been beaten, children who talked like old people about life and death. I remember meeting two girls there from affluent homes who changed my approach to the Palestinian situation. They told me how their home had been demolished during an operation to capture wanted men. I came back with powerful material and put together a report that for the first time showed children who had been wounded by Israeli fire. When I recorded the narration, my voice cracked from emotion. I realized I had dynamite. That was the report that really got me into Gaza."

Subsequently, Eldar was appointed editor of "Mabat" and of the Friday night weekly newsmagazine.

"After a report I did about the distress of the Palestinians at the Erez checkpoint, Barel suspended me from covering Gaza and the Palestinians," Eldar says. "He called me and said, 'You let me down, friend.' But because he trusted me as an editor he appointed me the editor of the newsmagazine. A year and a half later, in 2003, I was asked by Channel 10 news chief Shilo De-Beer to join the station, which was then starting to broadcast. He wanted to make me the Gaza correspondent. I actually thought that Gaza was small-time stuff, because until then it was not covered in its own right. I told him that I accepted, but suggested I also be responsible for coverage of social-affairs issues for Channel 10 News. My idea was to devote two days a week to Gaza and the rest to social-welfare stories. But once I entered Gaza, during the second intifada, I never got around to doing the other stories."


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Shafique
shafique
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Re: Not so Merciful Jul 08, 2010
What is fascinating is that the spin isn't working anymore - the Human Rights reports all clearly expose the illegalities of Israeli actions. You have no response other than to blame the victims.


Wow - quite the response. I post a story of a Pal-Arab mother who wants her child to become a suicide bomber and blow up Israelis after Israeli generosity saved the boy's life.

Somewhere between ignoring the other thread and posting this thread you manage to shame someone else for condemning this type of hatred in Pal-Arab society.

No, shame on you.

But let's quote another part of the article:

He was wrong. Hours after the news item about Mohammed was broadcast, the hospital switchboard was jammed with callers. An Israeli Jew whose son died during his military service donated $55,000, and for the first time the Abu Mustafa family began to feel hopeful. Only then did Eldar grasp the full dramatic potential of the story. He told his editor, Tali Ben Ovadia, that he wanted to continue accompanying the family.

...Nevertheless, this idyllic situation developed into a deep crisis that led to the severance of the relations and what appeared to be the end of the filming. From an innocent conversation about religious holidays, Raida Abu Mustafa launched into a painful monologue about the culture of the shahids - the martyrs - and admitted, during the complex transplant process, that she would like to see her son perpetrate a suicide bombing attack in Jerusalem.

"Jerusalem is ours," she declared. "We are all for Jerusalem, the whole nation, not just a million, all of us. Do you understand what that means - all of us?"

She also explained to Eldar exactly what she had in mind. "For us, death is a natural thing. We are not frightened of death. From the smallest infant, even smaller than Mohammed, to the oldest person, we will all sacrifice ourselves for the sake of Jerusalem. We feel we have the right to it. You're free to be angry, so be angry."

And Eldar was angry. "Then why are you fighting to save your son's life, if you say that death is a usual thing for your people?" he lashes out in one of the most dramatic moments in the film.

"It is a regular thing," she smiles at him. "Life is not precious. Life is precious, but not for us. For us, life is nothing, not worth a thing. That is why we have so many suicide bombers. They are not afraid of death. None of us, not even the children, are afraid of death. It is natural for us. After Mohammed gets well, I will certainly want him to be a shahid. If it's for Jerusalem, then there's no problem. For you it is hard, I know; with us, there are cries of rejoicing and happiness when someone falls as a shahid. For us a shahid is a tremendous thing."
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 08, 2010
A moving and harrowing account by a woman who wishes the occupation of Jerusalem to end. Can't spin the occupation of Jerusalem or the desire of those living under occupation (and illegal annexation, don't forget) as anything other that what it is.

But coming back to the points made by the Human Right's organisations about Israel's crimes in relation to medical provision -

“Making a distinction between a life-threatening and a non-life threatening medical condition contradicts medical ethics, according to which any patient or injured person must be given access to the best medical care available for them, regardless of the treatment’s urgency or the severity of the medical condition.

“This distinction contradicts the rules of humanitarian law and the international human rights law which recognize the right to life, the right to the integrity of one’s body and the right to human dignity, which are recognized as basic rights in Israel law as well.”


Blaming the victims doesn't excuse the crimes.

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Shafique
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Re: Not so Merciful Jul 08, 2010
shafique wrote:A moving and harrowing account by a woman who wishes the occupation of Jerusalem to end. Can't spin the occupation of Jerusalem or the desire of those living under occupation (and illegal annexation, don't forget) as anything other that what it is.


No doubt you would claim that Islam is the religion of peace in the next breath.

I don't need to point out the twisted mindset of religious whack jobs, such as yourself, to non-Muslims.

We now have your own statement referring to a twisted mom who wants her toddler, whose life was saved by Israelis, to become a suicide bomber and kill Israeli civilians.

Really, your statement is beyond disgusting. I thought your support of wife beating was sickening. But this is a new low. Shame on you. And shame on you that you don't have any moral bearing to be ashamed of your own words. You disgrace all British nationals with your views and comments.

But coming back to the points made by the Human Right's organisations about Israel's crimes in relation to medical provision -


After reading the sick statement above, I can't say I blame the Israelis if they choose to use their nation's wealth to treat Israeli citizens over foreigners who would gladly attack their nation.
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Re: Not so Merciful Jul 09, 2010
A mother who wants her child, which is saved by Israeli's, to be a suicide bomber and kill Israeli kids is sick enough as it is. Calling it a moving account is subhuman:

shafique wrote:A moving and harrowing account


event horizon wrote:You disgrace all British nationals with your views and comments.


I doubt that.
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Re: Not So Merciful Jul 09, 2010
Is it loon exaggeration season or do you guys exaggerate all year round?

We know that the most extreme religious fanatic here is eh - but even he has excelled himself lately. In the thread entitled 'Muslims for Peace' he rants:

event horizon wrote:Peace with Islam and Muslims is impossible. The only time Muslims seek peace is when they need to reload.


Which explains his looniness. Do you disagree with him?

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