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capsicum wrote:

symmetric wrote:In my opinion, the West has full right to reject Sharia laws.

DAMN RIGHT!

I second that!!!

Didn't read the articles, but I gather that Muslims want Sharia law recognized in the US where there is one law for everyone. Shaf, would Muslims what to pick and choose what laws be recognized?? Or would it take into consideration ALL the laws under Sharia? Should there be separate courts for Sharia law? Would it mean that if a Muslim was, say, caught stealing, he could choose to be tried under "US law" rather than lose a hand under Sharia law? If a man proclaims "I divorce you" three times, that's the end of the marriage? He's free to walk away? Sharia law when it comes to marriage and crime is still in the dark ages and very backwards.

Why should Muslims have a choice of law, and non-Muslims be left with no choice? Why do a group of Muslims feel that they are entitled to special treatment by virtue of being a Muslim? Assuming they are citizens of the country they live in they took that citizenship with the understanding that they live by the laws of that country. If they were born in that country and have issues with the laws in place and want to live under Sharia law - then they should leave. No one is holding them hostage. They are free to go.

I'm really sick of some Muslims thinking that there is a certain entitlement due them, especially those who migrate to developed countries. If they want to live by Sharia law then they should live in a country that practices Sharia law. Can you show me where there is a developed country that practices two or more types of law to accommodate different religions/sects??

I see American woman who are Muslims living in Dubai who live with the fear that should the husband want a divorce (expat divorce rate here is very high), or should she for that matter, with the sweep of a hand she can loose her child/ren to him, without a court determining if indeed he is the better parent, nor are the wants of the child/ren taken into consideration. He could be a wife beater, a cheating husband, have a second wife, an abuser, none of this is taken into consideration because: the law (Sharia) is the law (Sharia). If he decides he doesn't want the children he doesn't have to pay child support or alimony. Sure, a divorce can be obtained through lawyers outside the country, but while living in Dubai, they still live under Sharia law.

Fortunately they can make all the demands they want, it will never happen.

Bora Bora wrote:

capsicum wrote:

symmetric wrote:In my opinion, the West has full right to reject Sharia laws.

DAMN RIGHT!

I second that!!!

Didn't read the articles, but I gather that Muslims want Sharia law recognized in the US where there is one law for everyone. Shaf, would Muslims what to pick and choose what laws be recognized?? Or would it take into consideration ALL the laws under Sharia? Should there be separate courts for Sharia law? Would it mean that if a Muslim was, say, caught stealing, he could choose to be tried under "US law" rather than lose a hand under Sharia law? If a man proclaims "I divorce you" three times, that's the end of the marriage? He's free to walk away? Sharia law when it comes to marriage and crime is still in the dark ages and very backwards.

Why should Muslims have a choice of law, and non-Muslims be left with no choice? Why do a group of Muslims feel that they are entitled to special treatment by virtue of being a Muslim? Assuming they are citizens of the country they live in they took that citizenship with the understanding that they live by the laws of that country. If they were born in that country and have issues with the laws in place and want to live under Sharia law - then they should leave. No one is holding them hostage. They are free to go.

I'm really sick of some Muslims thinking that there is a certain entitlement due them, especially those who migrate to developed countries. If they want to live by Sharia law then they should live in a country that practices Sharia law. Can you show me where there is a developed country that practices two or more types of law to accommodate different religions/sects??

Fortunately they can make all the demands they want, it will never happen.

.. & I couldn't agree more BB

Happy New Year Sym. May it be a healthy, happy and prosperous one for you.

Bora Bora wrote:Happy New Year Sym. May it be a healthy, happy and prosperous one for you.

Thanks a lot dear sister
I wish you happiness and success in life too ^^)

kanelli wrote:Well, I do feel the same way about any set of laws dictated by any religion, so it isn't just Islam.

Neither is the bill that is supposed to be Islamophobic. According to the article, every law opposing any religious law of whatever religion is Islamophobic. Go figure!

Bora - I'm not advocating Sharia for the US or UK.

I was asked a direct question by herve about whether I'd support such a move - and I just pointed out that there is no such thing as one sharia law, but six principles and linked to an article about them. If those principles are applied - then they can easily be applied to all people.

I also pointed out that Shariah is already part of the British legal system, just as Judaic law is part of it. As it is in the UK, yes Muslims (and Jews) have a choice for certain issues to go to a religious court or a secular court. I see no issue with this.

On criminal matters, I would not advocate any choice - there should be one law for all for criminal acts.

I certainly would join you guys in opposing what I called the 'Jihadwatch scary headline' description of sharia - and would certainly say that we should keep mad mullahs away from making laws. They are the Muslim equivalent of the Spanish Inquisition clerics!!

I would recommend reading article by the lady expert (and lawyer) 'who's afraid of Sharia' - I agree with her assessment and views.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:I also pointed out that Shariah is already part of the British legal system, just as Judaic law is part of it. As it is in the UK, yes Muslims (and Jews) have a choice for certain issues to go to a religious court or a secular court. I see no issue with this.

On criminal matters, I would not advocate any choice - there should be one law for all for criminal acts.

When you refer to Muslims and Jews having a choice of courts, I assume that the "certain issues" in question are of a very, very minor religious nature that does not impact society or the welfare of the individuals involved, as in the case of Catholic tribunals (courts).

The Catholic Church has it's "legal system" for worshippers. Such as annullment of marriage, recognized by the US legal system, where there is a religious tribunal/interview/decision-making process. Upon "approval" of the annullment, the marriage is dissolved and all proof of such marriage is basically erased, including official government documentation evidencing such marriage. The annuallment basically says: it never happened, and does not have to be revealed should either party decide to get married, which would be considered "first marriage". The tribunal makes no decisions as to financial/asset settlement. Failing an annullment the individual(s) must travel the road that the majority of people take - the legal system accessible to everyone else where it remains offical and must be divulged in the event either party should remarry.

Once again,evidence of how much Jews and Muslims have in common. The line between who suffers more with regard to religious persecution is blurring.

symmetric wrote:In my opinion, the West has full right to reject Sharia laws.

What happens,say, if half of the christians in America revert to islam means goes into contract with God according to the islamic laws set in the quran therefore demand shariah?

Shall we shift them back into Dubai?

Berrin wrote:

symmetric wrote:In my opinion, the West has full right to reject Sharia laws.

What happens,say, if half of the christians in America revert to islam means goes into contract with God according to the islamic laws set in the quran therefore demand shariah?

Shall we shift them back into Dubai?

If they want to live under Sharia law, they will get a one way ticket to an Islamic country of their choice. and with any luck, their passports cancelled.

Bora Bora wrote:When you refer to Muslims and Jews having a choice of courts, I assume that the "certain issues" in question are of a very, very minor religious nature that does not impact society or the welfare of the individuals involved, as in the case of Catholic tribunals (courts).

I think divorce and custody issues may also be covered (and I wouldn't call these minor) - but in general, I do believe that family and civil matters are what are mostly covered in the Shariah courts in the UK (and recognised by the UK state).

A quick search shows the article from 2009 which states that non-Muslims are also choosing to use Shariah courts!

Non-Muslims turning to Sharia courts to resolve civil disputes
Fiona Hamilton, London Correspondent
Increasing numbers of non-Muslims are turning to Sharia courts to resolve commercial disputes and other civil matters, The Times has learnt.

The Muslim Arbitration Tribunal (MAT) said that 5 per cent of its cases involved non-Muslims who were using the courts because they were less cumbersome and more informal than the English legal system.

Freed Chedie, a spokesman for Sheikh Faiz-ul-Aqtab Siqqiqi, a barrister who set up the tribunal, said: “We put weight on oral agreements, whereas the British courts do not.”

In a case last month a non-Muslim Briton took his Muslim business partner to the tribunal to sort out a dispute over the profits in their car fleet company. “The non-Muslim claimed that there had been an oral agreement between the pair,” said Mr Chedie. “The tribunal found that because of certain things the Muslim man did, that agreement had existed. The non-Muslim was awarded £48,000.”
...

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b ... 721158.ece

(Also from 2009, the Daily Mail reports that there may be over 80 'shariah courts' in operation in the UK:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... doors.html
)

Bora Bora wrote:Once again,evidence of how much Jews and Muslims have in common. The line between who suffers more with regard to religious persecution is blurring.

Indeed, an interesting point indeed.

and with any luck, their passports cancelled.

yeah right...long live democracy...