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shafique wrote:but no where did you dispute the facts.

Liar, but lets not take this in this thread. If you have something else to add concerning the other thread, do it there.

shafique wrote:Again, this is more to do with your imagination than with anything I've written.

Good to see you are getting a bit ashamed of your extremist views. I can remember you found nothing wrong with this picture, actually you stated there is nothing wrong with the nazi salute. Do you still have the same opinion?

LOL - as I said, your imagination runs riot.

So, I'm ashamed and a liar now - fair enough. The facts and your excuses are there to read, you still have to provide any quote where I deny the Holocaust.

Do you view all Muslims as having Danny Devito physique, long beards, ranting about killing infidels, beat their wives etc? Or do you just reel out your imaginings when you run out of arguments?

Cheers,
Shafique

The last time we discussed the roman salute that Hezbollah chooses to use, I don't recall saying that I said I deny the Holocaust - do you?

I do recall I also provided you with this image as well (taken in 1941):



I also find Charlie Chaplin funny - are you going to have a go at me for not objecting to the moustache? (Or the hindu symbol of the Swastica, for that matter)?


Is paranoia a trait of Islamophobes, I wonder?


Edit - let me answer your question. No my opinions about Hezbollah's choice of salute hasn't changed - I said at the time it was deliberately provocative because of its association with the Nazis, but that I disagreed with the 'guilt by association' argument that they are anti-Semites because of the choice of salute - I quoted the rabbis who stated categorically that Hezbollah wasn't anti-Semitic, and the words of Hezbollah themselves.

I see a post of mine was deleted.

Can a mod explain why?

^nothing to do with me.

I can't see a deleted post in this thread (we normally see deleted posts as mods - so they can be recovered if deleted in error).

Was it in this thread?

Edit - I've had a look at the moderator logs, nothing has been deleted by any Mod today - actually nothing for at least a week has been deleted. FD - please provide more details.

Cheers,
Shafique

Not me!



Just sitting in the umpire's seat watching the ball go back and forth over the net...



Knight

shafique wrote:Edit - I've had a look at the moderator logs, nothing has been deleted by any Mod today - actually nothing for at least a week has been deleted. FD - please provide more details.

I posted between your two posts from:
Sun May 16, 2010 3:27 pm
Sun May 16, 2010 3:30 pm

It was there as a reply to your post from 3:27. After your post of 3:30 it was gone.

Oh, I see, now it is the Roman salute. After WW II the nazi salute is just 'not done' anymore. Yes, after WW II a nazi salute I consider anti-semitic, you obviously dont. Fine.
Just to compare a bit nowadays saluting like a nazi is on the same level of provocation as nakely depicting 50 year old Mohammed taking 9 year old Aisha from behind or Aisha sucking Mohammed dry.

As for you denying the holocaust. Those discussions took place at DHH, unfortunately we cannot see them back.

Well we definitely have spotted one Islamophobe on this thread. Thank you Shafique.. keep going

FD - the records don't show that you posted anything at the time you said. I can assure you that I didn't delete it - why don't you just repost it.

As for the salute - the photo I showed was from 1941. There is one from 1943 of other American school children and there is also an infamous one of Roman Catholic clergy giving Nazi salutes in Germany.

Let's see if I can find them - I'll post them later.

As for me denying the Holocaust - I refer you to my previous observations regarding your imagination vs reality. (clue - I'm not surprised you can't produce any quote which backs up your slur)

Is it frustrating that I'm not getting angry but rather chuckling at the attempts to divert attention away from the message of the thread? In an ironic way, though, your posts are extremely relevant to this thread!

Cheers,
Shafique

My mistake, this photo of American school kids is from 1942 and not 1943 as I said above (the first one, is from 1941 - at a time when the Nazis had been around for a long time and WWII was raging)



Here are two of priests:

I don't care much who gives a nazi salute. After WW II I consider a nazi salute a clear sign of anti-semitism. You don't...why are you trying to obscure that fact?

shafique wrote:As for me denying the Holocaust - I refer you to my previous observations regarding your imagination vs reality. (clue - I'm not surprised you can't produce any quote which backs up your slur)

Well I remember you couldn't get yourself denying the conclusions of 'documentaries' from Iran and Hamas denying the holocaust. Did you change your mind? I also remember you underlying conclusions (that death camps didn't exists in WW II) reached on a neo-nazi website, you supported them with some calculations. Did that not happen according to you now?

shafique wrote:Is it frustrating that I'm not getting angry but rather chuckling at the attempts to divert attention away from the message of the thread? In an ironic way, though, your posts are extremely relevant to this thread!

Just tried to put things in perspective. The title of the thread is how to spot an islamophobe...in the OP I have seen one slightly related observation: that if one is anti-semitic the chance rises that that person is also islamophobic (an observation I already shared in another thread). Nothing more. Do you have any more comments with regards to the remarks of Klaus Faber?

Flying Dutchman wrote:I don't care much who gives a nazi salute. After WW II I consider a nazi salute a clear sign of anti-semitism. You don't...why are you trying to obscure that fact?

I consider anti-semitism to be a sign of anti-semitism and disagreed with you that a photo of Hezbollah fighters giving the salute outweighed the categoric statement by Jewish Rabbis and Hezbollah itself that it was not anti-Semitic - but rather against Israel's illegal actions (Hezbollah was, after all, set up to fight Israel's invasion and occupation of Lebanon).

Your 'clear sign' is indeed a belief of yours I don't share. Why would I try and 'obscure that fact'?

By your logic, aren't the American kids giving the salute in 1941 and 1943 anti-semitic, or does your time-line only start in 1945?

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:As for me denying the Holocaust - I refer you to my previous observations regarding your imagination vs reality. (clue - I'm not surprised you can't produce any quote which backs up your slur)

Well I remember you couldn't get yourself denying the conclusions of 'documentaries' from Iran and Hamas denying the holocaust. Did you change your mind? I also remember you underlying conclusions (that death camps didn't exists in WW II) reached on a neo-nazi website, you supported them with some calculations. Did that not happen according to you now?

I have absolutely no recollection writing anything that comes close to Holocaust denial. I think you're trying to do your old trick of 'guilt by association' again. I don't recall watching any Iranian or Hamas documentaries - or agreeing with any conclusion that stated the Holocaust did not occur.

As I said, your imagination/recollection is letting you down.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:Is it frustrating that I'm not getting angry but rather chuckling at the attempts to divert attention away from the message of the thread? In an ironic way, though, your posts are extremely relevant to this thread!

Just tried to put things in perspective. The title of the thread is how to spot an islamophobe...in the OP I have seen one slightly related observation: that if one is anti-semitic the chance rises that that person is also islamophobic (an observation I already shared in another thread). Nothing more. Do you have any more comments with regards to the remarks of Klaus Faber?

Ok - well putting things in perspective is something that I don't object to.

As for Klaus' remarks - here are my comments:

The Center for Research on Anti-Semitism at the Technical University of Berlin has compared it with hostility against Islam in a conference called "Perceived Enemy Muslim - Perceived Enemy Jew." This attempted comparison has met with rejection, since the term "Islamophobia" is primarily used during anti-Western and anti-Israeli agitation in Islamic countries.

Islamophobia does not refer to actual discrimination against Muslims, but to allegedly inappropriate criticism of Shari'a law and Islam in general.

I agree that Islamophobia is used to describe inappropriate criticism of Islam. The key word is inappropriate.

I don't think legitimate criticism is Islamophobic - and hopefully have shown on this forum that all questions about Islam can be dealt with politely.

...Some argue that the tendency to hold a collective accountable for the wrongdoings of individuals is a quality of hostility toward Islam, and this is also claimed to be an example of structural similarity with anti-Semitism.

I guess I'm not one of the 'some' who would argue this. I think the extrapolation of the misdemeanors of some Muslims on to the relgion is not a root cause, but rather a manifestation of Islamophobia. I'd agree with those who trace back Islamophobia to the pre-crusade times when there was a lot of misinformation about Islam, some of which still echos to this day.

But considering the varying nature of "wrongdoing" involved, this would mean equating alleged Jewish wrongdoing in the financial market or the media with indisputable Islamic terrorism, jihadism and threats to eliminate Israel. To put these facts on the same level as theories is unacceptable and cannot be justified by the claim that one thereby aims to avoid a "hierarchy of victims."

Again, I'm not sure I'd agree that Anti-semitism stems from what what the anti-Semites think Jews are behind. I think it is the other way round - when one is anti-semitic, one sees the hidden hand of the Jooos everywhere. The anti-semitism actually stems from a hatred of Jews and in Europe this historically has been down to a belief that Jews killed Christ. This historic cause of anti-Semitism still echoes today, I'd argue.

In addition, one common side effect is that justified criticism of the conditions in Islamic societies is branded as Islamophobic

I'd agree with this - it is wrong to label criticism of ills of some societies as Islamophobia, unless (of course) the criticism is linked to Islam wrongly.

cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman wrote:You never miss a change to defend and agree with holocaust deniers when they deny the holocaust: whether it is from Iran, Hamas or a neo-nazi website.

Will you take this comment back now, or do you still believe it to be true?

Cheers,
Shafique

Well I remember you couldn't get yourself denying the conclusions of 'documentaries' from Iran and Hamas denying the holocaust.

Well there is a difference between denying consequence of holocaust and the objectives of holocaust.
Just as there is difference between anti-semitism and anti-israel..

Everyone knows that in the history of Europe between 19th/20th century the borders/countries were being built by seducing hatred amongst ethnic groups in communities which resulted in uprise hence pogroms, mass killings via wars etc..

Just the fact that hands salute nazi in America gives us the sign that this pogrom in Germany was well calculated amongst the powers of the time when America was left to control affairs in Middle East after muslim borders were established.

shafique wrote:I consider anti-semitism to be a sign of anti-semitism

Brilliant!

shafique wrote:Your 'clear sign' is indeed a belief of yours I don't share. Why would I try and 'obscure that fact'?

OK, so according to you a nazi salute is not a clear sign of anti-semitism. Don't understand why you have to discuss it further. Your statement is chrystal clear.

shafique wrote:I have absolutely no recollection writing anything that comes close to Holocaust denial. I think you're trying to do your old trick of 'guilt by association' again. I don't recall watching any Iranian or Hamas documentaries - or agreeing with any conclusion that stated the Holocaust did not occur.

Playing word games again. You didn't deny the conclusions of 'documentaries' from Iran and Hamas denying the holocaust and you agreed with (you showed some calculations) the conclusions (that death camps didn't exists in WW II) reached on a neo-nazi website.

shafique wrote:I think it is the other way round - when one is anti-semitic, one sees the hidden hand of the Jooos everywhere.

That would include quite some forum members!


What are other tells of an islamophobe?

-- Mon May 17, 2010 12:48 pm --

Berrin wrote:Well there is a difference between denying consequence of holocaust and the objectives of holocaust.

Can you eloborate? What was the consequence and what where the objectives have the holocaust?

Flying Dutchman wrote:OK, so according to you a nazi salute is not a clear sign of anti-semitism. Don't understand why you have to discuss it further. Your statement is chrystal clear.

Why is it the sign of anti-semitism? It is a sign of faschism as far as I know.

Red Chief wrote:

Flying Dutchman wrote:OK, so according to you a nazi salute is not a clear sign of anti-semitism. Don't understand why you have to discuss it further. Your statement is chrystal clear.

Why is it the sign of anti-semitism? It is a sign of faschism as far as I know.

If you know what happened in WW II and what the nazi salute stands for, most certainly yes, it is clear sign of antisemitism.

Flying Dutchman wrote:OK, so according to you a nazi salute is not a clear sign of anti-semitism. Don't understand why you have to discuss it further. Your statement is chrystal clear.

In general terms, I'd say it is a fascist sign and if possible I'd check with the group giving the sign what their beliefs are before I automatically label them anti-semitic. If there are Jewish Rabbis who tell me that they aren't, then I'd probably take the Rabbi's verdict into account rather than agreeing with your premise that despite saying they aren't anti-Semitic, Hezbollah must be 'because they use a roman salute'.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:I have absolutely no recollection writing anything that comes close to Holocaust denial. I think you're trying to do your old trick of 'guilt by association' again. I don't recall watching any Iranian or Hamas documentaries - or agreeing with any conclusion that stated the Holocaust did not occur.

Playing word games again.

Huh?

Flying Dutchman wrote: You didn't deny the conclusions of 'documentaries' from Iran and Hamas denying the holocaust and you agreed with (you showed some calculations) the conclusions (that death camps didn't exists in WW II) reached on a neo-nazi website.

Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? I've never denied any argument that comes close to saying that the Holocaust did not take place. You recall some calculations I made - how would a calculation verify whether the Holocaust took place or not?

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:I think it is the other way round - when one is anti-semitic, one sees the hidden hand of the Jooos everywhere.

That would include quite some forum members!

Perhaps, or perhaps you are imagining that they have these views?

Flying Dutchman wrote:What are other tells of an islamophobe?

Well, for one they will argue that their interpretation of Islam is correct and insist that the Orientalist view that Islam teaches that all non-Muslims should be fought against, to name but one canard, is true.


I'll ask you again, do you have ANY evidence to back up your slur:

Flying Dutchman wrote:You never miss a change to defend and agree with holocaust deniers when they deny the holocaust: whether it is from Iran, Hamas or a neo-nazi website.

Cheers,
Shafique

Can you eloborate? What was the consequence and what where the objectives have the holocaust?

the holocaust was real in the sense that so many jews had to die(sacrificed) in order to legitimate a jewish state being built on the lands of palestinians.It was a hoax in the sense that Hitler was anti-semitic and that he was after creating one purified/super race nation.
All muslims/non-muslims who are anti-racist, peace loving knows this fact and can clearly see this happening if dig into history of European politics as well as ME affairs through analytic mind.

shafique wrote:I've never denied any argument that comes close to saying that the Holocaust did not take place.

Yes, that is my point exactly.

shafique wrote:You recall some calculations I made - how would a calculation verify whether the Holocaust took place or not?

Fascinating that you donot deny agreeing with calculations on a neo-nazi website denying the death camps. Your evasiveness speaks volumes.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:Perhaps, or perhaps you are imagining that they have these views?

LOL. I also remember you posting a speech of Ahmadinejad claiming 2000 jews somewhere rule the world. And no, that isn't my imagination.

I would consider above post of Berrin anti-semitic. Do you?

-- Mon May 17, 2010 2:08 pm --

Berrin wrote:the holocaust was real in the sense that so many jews had to die(sacrificed) in order to legitimate a jewish state being built on the lands of palestinians.

Are you trying to say that jews caused (or even executed) the holocaust themselves in order to legitimize the establishment of Israel?

Berrin wrote:It was a hoax in the sense that Hitler was anti-semitic and that he was after creating one purified/super race nation.

Fascinating that you donot deny agreeing with calculations on a neo-nazi website denying the death camps.

Yes the neo-nazis deny the death camps on the same bases as I had explained, the death camps were not coming from within the Germany people/society but it was a set-up role giving to German nation by the ruling powers of the world to sort out regional as well as the shape of world politics..

Berrin wrote:Yes the neo-nazis deny the death camps on the same bases as I had explained, the death camps were not coming from within the Germany people/society but it was a set-up role giving to German nation by the ruling powers of the world to sort out regional as well as the shape of world politics..

Allright, so the nazi's didnot set up any death camp according to you. Shafique must agree with you, based on some neo-nazi calculations

Who were the ruling powers of the world?

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:I've never denied any argument that comes close to saying that the Holocaust did not take place.

Yes, that is my point exactly.

I should have said 'I've never AGREED with any argument that comes close to saying the Holocaust did not take place.'

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:You recall some calculations I made - how would a calculation verify whether the Holocaust took place or not?

Fascinating that you donot deny agreeing with calculations on a neo-nazi website denying the death camps. Your evasiveness speaks volumes.

Fascinating is one word for it. Given I don't recall what you're talking about, I would use a different word for it - something like 'desperation'

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:Perhaps, or perhaps you are imagining that they have these views?

LOL. I also remember you posting a speech of Ahmadinejad claiming 2000 jews somewhere rule the world. And no, that isn't my imagination.

It is your imagination. I've never quoted Ineedadinnerjacket saying that, nor have I said I agree with such a statement.


Could I ask you, yet again, do you have ANY evidence to back up your slur:

Flying Dutchman wrote:You never miss a change to defend and agree with holocaust deniers when they deny the holocaust: whether it is from Iran, Hamas or a neo-nazi website.

Surely you have a scrap of evidence?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Fascinating is one word for it. Given I don't recall what you're talking about, I would use a different word for it - something like 'desperation'

Ah, you donot recall. Let me help to refresh a bit. Spoonman on DHH posted a link to a neo-nazi website. There death camps where denied with some calculations given. You 'checked' the calculations and found them correct. Still no recollection?

shafique wrote:It is your imagination. I've never quoted Ineedadinnerjacket saying that, nor have I said I agree with such a statement.

Let me help refreshing. It is about this:

Ahmadinejad: 2,000 Jews Control the World

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has launched new verbal attacks
against Israel, saying Zionist leaders are "germs of corruption" who will be
wiped "off the face of the earth."

Ahmadinejad's recent comments on the Iranian News Channel were translated
and released by the Middle East Media Research Institute on Thursday.

"The Zionists are crooks," the Iranian leader declared.

"A small handful of Zionists, with a very intricate organization, have taken
over the power centers of the world. According to our estimates, the main
cadre of the Zionists consists of 2,000 individuals at most, and they have
another 8,000 activists. In addition, they have several informants, who spy
and provide them with intelligence information."

This "cadre" controls the world's financial centers and news and propaganda
agencies, and spreads "propaganda as if they were the entire world, as if
all the peoples supported them, and as if they were the majority ruling the
world," Ahmadinejad asserted.

"That is a great lie - just like their Jewishness is a great lie. They have
no religion whatsoever. They are a handful of lying, power-greedy people who
have no religion, who only want to take over all the peoples and countries,
and to trample the rights of the peoples . . .

"A Zionist organization with 2,000 [members] and with 7,000 or 8,000
activists has brought the world to a state of confusion. Let me tell them
that if they themselves do not wrap up Zionism, the strong arm of the
peoples will wipe these germs of corruption off the face of the earth."

Ahmadinejad also claimed that that Zionists "kidnap oppressed, destitute,
ignorant people from other countries, and bring them to the occupied lands
to serve as human shields."

Remember?


Again, speaking volumes that you donot comment on Berrins post or answer my questions about it. Like I said, you must agree with him!

A new chance then: What is your opinion that Hamas and Ahmadinejad deny the holocaust?

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:Fascinating is one word for it. Given I don't recall what you're talking about, I would use a different word for it - something like 'desperation'

Ah, you donot recall. Let me help to refresh a bit. Spoonman on DHH posted a link to a neo-nazi website. There death camps where denied with some calculations given. You 'checked' the calculations and found them correct. Still no recollection?

Nope, no recollection at all about any such calculations. (Just to be clear, I'm not saying I recall some calculations which were on a neo-nazi website that I checked, but I am going to play word games with you and deny this - I do not recall any calculations you describe at all).

But I'm now intrigued - what 'calculations' could show that death camps didn't exist? Seriously, I'm not point scoring here - I'd like to find this out now.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:It is your imagination. I've never quoted Ineedadinnerjacket saying that, nor have I said I agree with such a statement.

Let me help refreshing. It is about this:

Ahmadinejad: 2,000 Jews Control the World

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has launched new verbal attacks
against Israel, saying Zionist leaders are "germs of corruption" who will be
wiped "off the face of the earth."

Ahmadinejad's recent comments on the Iranian News Channel were translated
and released by the Middle East Media Research Institute on Thursday.



...Ahmadinejad also claimed that that Zionists "kidnap oppressed, destitute,
ignorant people from other countries, and bring them to the occupied lands
to serve as human shields."

I've never posted this quote or said I agree with it. Are you sure you're not imagining that I agreed or posted this quote?

Edit: Why would I quote MEMRI??? (let alone agree with MEMRI)

Flying Dutchman wrote:Again, speaking volumes that you donot comment on Berrins post or answer my questions about it. Like I said, you must agree with him!

A new chance then: What is your opinion that Hamas and Ahmadinejad deny the holocaust?

Hold on, I'm still trying to get to the bottom of your slur about ME being a Holocaust denier.

(But to answer your question, I don't agree with anyone who says that the Holocaust did not happen - whether it is David Irving, Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi of Hamas and yes even Ahmadinejad's quotes of it being a 'myth'.)


So, let me ask you again - do you have any evidence for the slur:

Flying Dutchman wrote:You never miss a change to defend and agree with holocaust deniers when they deny the holocaust: whether it is from Iran, Hamas or a neo-nazi website.

Edit:
What is one to make of this quote from Hamas:
"In 2008, Basim Naim, the minister of health in the Hamas government in Gaza, said "But it should be made clear that neither Hamas nor the Palestinian government in Gaza denies the Nazi Holocaust. The Holocaust was not only a crime against humanity but one of the most abhorrent crimes in modern history. We condemn it as we condemn every abuse of humanity and all forms of discrimination on the basis of religion, race, gender or nationality."?
From an article 'Hamas Condemns the Holocaust'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/may/12/hamascondemnstheholocaust


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Nope, no recollection at all about any such calculations.

Okay, if you want to play that way.

shafique wrote:what 'calculations' could show that death camps didn't exist?

Calculations of how many jews were alive after and before 1945 according to neo-nazi's.

shafique wrote:I've never posted this quote or said I agree with it.

LOL.

shafique wrote:(But to answer your question, I don't agree with anyone who says that the Holocaust did not happen

Do you consider Berrins above remarks anti-semitic then? (asking for the third time)

shafique wrote:whether it is David Irving, Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi of Hamas and yes even Ahmadinejad's quotes of it being a 'myth'.)

Do you consider them anti-semitic?

This is what Hamas thinks of the holocaust:

The Hamas TV educational program, broadcast last week, taught that the murder of Jews in the Holocaust was a Zionist plot with two goals:

1- To eliminate "disabled and handicapped" Jews by sending them to death camps, so they would not be a burden on the future state of Israel.

2- At the same time, the Holocaust served to make "the Jews seem persecuted" so they could "benefit from international sympathy."

Seems to be in agreement with Berrin.

If you doubt the translation a link to the original broadcast is also provided:

http://www.pmw.org.il/bulletins_apr2008.html

Are you trying to say that jews caused (or even executed) the holocaust themselves in order to legitimize the establishment of Israel?

That's how it looks like and there is more to it than that.. they were carving the world in camps.. my tag line is that "Watch what is done, not what is said"..

Who were the ruling powers of the world?

The following...

It is interesting to note that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin were all Jews; as was Eisenhower, who murdered millions of unarmed, capitulated Germans in real extermination camps after the war was over.)

http://www.realityreviewed.com/Dresden.htm
open the link and click on real extermination camps..

http://www.jewwatch.com/jew-leaders-chu ... other.html

FD, What is it that you don’t like about Ahmedinajads statement, he clearly says that he is anti-zionist and not anti-jew.. As far as I am concerned the ordinary peace loving jews are no different than an ordinary dutch or an Indian or an Arab. So yes with the efforts of peace loving people/nations Zionism will be wiped out. And what’s wrong with that? Today the whole world suffers becouse of zionist and their neocon supporters.
Are you zionist by any chance?

Berrin wrote:

Are you trying to say that jews caused (or even executed) the holocaust themselves in order to legitimize the establishment of Israel?

That's how it looks like and there is more to it than that.. they were carving the world in camps..

And still Shafique maintains anti-semitic elements on this forum are in my imagination. Above remark I consider highly anti-semitic, Shafique obviously doesn't. As he denies so many things.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:what 'calculations' could show that death camps didn't exist?

Calculations of how many jews were alive after and before 1945 according to neo-nazi's.

No, I would have remembered that. So, I have to say this is one of your 'imagined' arguments.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

shafique wrote:I've never posted this quote or said I agree with it.

LOL.

Not sure what you're finding funny, the fact I didn't post or agreed with the Memri quote, or is it embarrassment that you imagined I posted/agreed with the quote?

No, I don't consider Hamas to be anti-semitic based based on what was written two years ago - see the thread 'Hamas' view of the Holocaust' for the full article.


May I ask, yet again,
Do you have ANY evidence for your slur:

Flying Dutchman wrote:You never miss a change to defend and agree with holocaust deniers when they deny the holocaust: whether it is from Iran, Hamas or a neo-nazi website.

Surely you have a scrap of evidence? So far it's been 'I remember you did a calculation once' - is this really the only evidence you have?

Cheers,
shafique

FD, Why do you just have to read the lines that serves to your imagination only? while leaving out what is said in the rest of it..
Jews have had, and still have, influence in Amsterdam. Are you one of them by any chance-the supporter of zionism?