Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors

Topic locked
  • Reply
Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
AP reports that an increasing number of children in Africa accused of witchcraft by pastors and then tortured or killed, often by family members. Pastors were involved in half of 200 cases of "witch children" reviewed by the AP, and 13 churches were named in the case files.

Some of the churches involved are renegade local branches of international franchises. Their parishioners take literally the Biblical exhortation, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."


The article states that whilst accusations of witchcraft in Africa aren't new - the phenomenon has increased with the spread of Evangelical Christianity. In Nigeria, over 1000 children have been murdered and over 15000 accused of witchcraft over the past 10 years.

"It is an outrage what they are allowing to take place in the name of Christianity," said Gary Foxcroft, head of nonprofit Stepping Stones Nigeria.

Indeed.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/1 ... 24943.html

This just goes to show that religions can and are abused by a minority of followers. In this case a Biblical commandment about killing witches is being used to justify the killing and torture of children. Indeed, the Bible's commandment is hard to interpret otherwise - and plays into the superstitions of people who believe in witches and witchcraft - a belief that is endemic in many parts of Africa.

Do you believe in witches and witchcraft - and do you believe they should be put to death?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
It's an unfortunate result when you have weird tribal customs - not that long ago, Africans were sodomizing pygmies and eating albinos because of their magic powers.

As for the connection to the 'Bible', I haven't seen any evidence of these self described 'prophetesses' or their followers actually citing the Bible where they believe it's 'ok' to kill a witch.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
Well, in these cases the killing was being done by Pastors of Christian churches who were using the Biblical commandment to kill witches as an excuse.

13 churches were named.

None of these Pastors were doing the deeds in the name of anything other than Christianity.. indeed, as I quoted above

"It is an outrage what they are allowing to take place in the name of Christianity," said Gary Foxcroft, head of nonprofit Stepping Stones Nigeria.
...
Their parishioners take literally the Biblical exhortation, "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.


Pretty categoric -.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
None of these Pastors were doing the deeds in the name of anything other than Christianity.. indeed, as I quoted above


Ah, the loon never disappoints in pontificating on various other topics. If our resident loon had actually read the Bible (as opposed to getting his knowledge of Scripture from HuffPo) he would probably know that a literal reading of the Bible restricts the killing of witches - the trials an accused witch would go through before he or she can be sentenced are designed so that the accused will unlikely be found guilty of witch craft.

The Bible is clear on how Christians should deal with witches. I won't bother quoting passages our resident loon can find after consulting Professor Google, but nowhere, unlike the texts of Islam, are Christians instructed to harm witches.

But really, is making potions from ingredients including the preacher's own blood sound like mainstream Christianity to you? Or as you said: None of these Pastors were doing the deeds in the name of anything other than Christianity

As usual, this is another example (like the LRA) where the Christian faith is blended with the local Pagan/tribal religions of the region. No different from un-Orthodox Muslim practices in the South Pacific and India.

As for the actual passage that was quoted in the article, this seems to be Katharine Houreld's belief own for the motivation or justification for these killings. I haven't found any of these Christians who actually cite this passage. But hey, maybe Katharine's standards will luckily hold up if some Christian preacher is actually found to have cited this passage?

-- Wed Oct 27, 2010 10:42 am --

Sub-Saharan Africa

In many societies of Sub-Saharan Africa, the fear of witches drives periodic witch-hunts during which specialist witch-finders identify suspects, with death by mob often the result.[27] Countries particularly affected by this phenomenon include the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Tanzania, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Cameroon, Kenya, the Gambia and Zambia.

Witch-hunts against children were reported by the BBC in 1999 in the Congo[28] and in Tanzania, where the government responded to attacks on women accused of being witches for having red eyes.[29] A lawsuit was launched in 2001 in Ghana, where witch-hunts are also common, by a woman accused of being a witch.[29] Witch-hunts in Africa are often led by relatives seeking the property of the accused victim.

Audrey I. Richards, in the journal Africa, relates in 1935 an instance when a new wave of witchfinders, the Bamucapi, appeared in the villages of the Bemba people of Zambia.[30] They dressed in European clothing, and would summon the headman to prepare a ritual meal for the village. When the villagers arrived they would view them all in a mirror, and claimed they could identify witches with this method. These witches would then have to "yield up his horns"; i.e. give over the horn containers for curses and evil potions to the witch-finders. The bamucapi then made all drink a potion called kucapa which would cause a witch to die and swell up if he ever tried such things again. The villagers related that the witch-finders were always right because the witches they found were always the people whom the village had feared all along. The bamucapi utilised a mixture of Christian and native religious traditions to account for their powers and said that God (not specifying which God) helped them to prepare their medicine. In addition, all witches who did not attend the meal to be identified would be called to account later on by their master, who had risen from the dead, and who would force the witches by means of drums to go to the graveyard, where they would die. Richards noted that the bamucapi created the sense of danger in the villages by rounding up all the horns in the village, whether they were used for anti-witchcraft charms, potions, snuff or were indeed receptacles of black magic.

The Bemba people believed misfortunes such as wartings hauntings and famines to be just actions sanctioned by the High-God Lesa. The only agency which caused unjust harm was a witch, who had enormous powers and was hard to detect. After white rule of Africa beliefs in sorcery and witchcraft grew, possibly because of the social strain caused by new ideas, customs and laws, and also because the courts no longer allowed witches to be tried.[citation needed]

Amongst the Bantu tribes of Southern Africa, the witch smellers were responsible for detecting witches. In parts of Southern Africa several hundred people have been killed in witch hunts since 1990.[31]

Several African states,[32] including Cameroon[33] have reestablished witchcraft-accusations in courts after their independence.

It was reported on 21 May 2008 that in Kenya a mob had burnt to death at least 11 people accused of witchcraft.[34]

In March 2009 Amnesty International reported that up to 1,000 people in the Gambia had been abducted by government-sponsored "witch doctors" on charges of witchcraft, and taken to detention centers where they were forced to drink poisonous concoctions.[35] On May 21, 2009, The New York Times reported that the alleged witch-hunting campaign had been sparked by the Gambia's President Yahya Jammeh.[36]

In Sierra Leone, the witch-hunt is an occasion for a sermon by the kɛmamɔi (native Mende witch-finder) on social ethics : "Witchcraft ... takes hold in people’s lives when people are less than fully open-hearted. All wickedness is ultimately because people hate each other or are jealous or suspicious or afraid. These emotions and motivations cause people to act antisocially".[37] The response by the populace to the kɛmamɔi is that "they valued his work and would learn the lessons he came to teach them, about social responsibility and cooperation."[38]


Yahya Jammeh is a Muslim.

As usual, (as I prophetically mentioned above) the witch craze is rooted in superstitious tribal beliefs.

But that's hardly surprising. As if people who eat albinos are going to consult the Bible for justification...on anything.

LoL.

*YAWN*/
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
So, the Pastors using the Bible to justify killing child witches has caused the usual torrent reaction and denial.

I am not arguing that the Pastors are correct in their use of the Bible - just that they are using the Bible to justify their practices and doing it in the name of Christianity.

That nonChristian Africans also believe in Witchcraft doesn't seem that relevant. Pagan europeans also celebrate fertility rights and spring festivals - and worship the goddess Eostre, and use bunny rabbits, eggs and chicks as symbols of their spring festival. But that's hardly relevant to the Christian churches using the Bible to condemn Child witches - is it?

You're not trying to throw up a smoke and mirrors defence are you?


But, that said - what do US christians say should be done to Witches according to the Bible? What specifically are the African churches doing wrongly (according to the Bible) when it comes to exorcisims etc described in the article?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
PS I agree that the LRA are a cult. You will recall that I didn't consider them Christians at all (so not sure why you're using them as an example) - but you insisted they were Christian Terrorists - 'born again' Christians at that - rather than converts to a non-Christian religion/cult:

event horizon wrote:
You didn't answer my simple question though - do you consider the LRA as Christian terrorists? (I said I do not, so they are clearly converts).


Yes, they seem to be Christian terrorists. Which means they are the born again types and not actual converts.

dubai-politics-talk/christian-muslim-convert-terror-counts-the-results-t38110-120.html?hilit=converts#p320768

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
So, the Pastors using the Bible to justify killing child witches has caused the usual torrent reaction and denial.


Which pastors have quoted the Exodus passage as justification for the killing of witches?

And if they have, they should read the Bible more accurately and completely rather than relying on one verse when others provide specific instructions for the ancient Israelites to put an accused witch through a trial to determine his or her guilt.
just that they are using the Bible to justify their practices and doing it in the name of Christianity.


I agree that they are doing it in the name of Christianity, I'm not convinced that they have actually used that passage of the Bible to justify their actions.

Then again, for people who eat albinos for their magical powers, I'm a bit surprised that we can really blame outsiders for what's happening.
But that's hardly relevant to the Christian churches using the Bible to condemn Child witches - is it?


Uhm, Pagans, Muslims and Christians in the region seem to have a thing against witches, at least certain types of witches and as the article points out, a Muslim president led a recent anti-witch craze in the region.

But, that said - what do US christians say should be done to Witches according to the Bible?


I don't know. Wicca is pretty popular here, perhaps you should ask US Christian leaders if they're planning on killing Wiccans.

Pastor Terry Jones is a apparently a fundamentalist. Ask his church if they have any future plans on the growing Wicca problem.
What specifically are the African churches doing wrongly (according to the Bible) when it comes to exorcisims etc described in the article?


Well, if they are going to follow what Exodus says, they might as well read about first putting the accused witch through a trial to determine his or her guilt.

As I said,the trial is designed for the accused to be acquitted.
but you insisted they were Christian Terrorists


They call themselves Christian but their religious views clearly are out there in comparison to so-called mainstream Christianity.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
My question to you wasn't rhetorical:
What do US christians say should be done to Witches according to the Bible? What specifically are the African churches doing wrongly (according to the Bible) when it comes to exorcisims etc described in the article?



As I said, you don't have to convince me that these Christian Churches and Pastors are probably misusing the Bible - you seem to be trying to hard to avoid answering the question about what the Bible does actually state about Witches, what to do with them etc. I'm not asking you what US Christians are planning to do or not - but what US Christians say the Bible teaches about witches.

You seem to be saying that the African Christian pastors aren't interpreting the Bible correctly - so I'm intrigued, which of their practices is not according to Biblical teachings?

Only someone really twisted or with an ulterior motive will take the actions of a few and generalise to the whole religion. ;)

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
you seem to be trying to hard to avoid answering the question about what the Bible does actually state about Witches, what to do with them etc.


Hardly, I'm happy to point out that certain procedures are to be followed for the accused witch.

Funnily enough, when bringing up what the Koran says about premarital relations, you would be first to excuse the Koran's backwards teachings by pointing out that convictions are rare due to the guidelines that must be followed.

I'm not sure if that applies to women guilty of 'whoredom' where the Koran instructs Muslims to confine such women to their homes for the rest of their lives - a harsh punishment.

but what US Christians say the Bible teaches about witches.


Why not ask US Muslims what the Korans says about attacking non-believers near to them? Or beheading non-allied pagans? Or about making Christians and Jews feel subdued?

You seem to be saying that the African Christian pastors aren't interpreting the Bible correctly


Putting an accused witch through a trial to determine his or her guilt would be the most obvious.

Of course, followers of Christ should follow what the Bible directly instructs Christians on how to deal with sinners, which would include witches.

so I'm intrigued, which of their practices is not according to Biblical teachings?


I can tell you that Ahmadi teachings are not in accordance with the Koran.

Funny that you would want to interpret the Bible to lecture Christians that they aren't following it correctly but call Robert Spencer an 'Islamophobe' when he is accused of doing the same for Muslims.

You aren't very bright.

Only someone really twisted or with an ulterior motive will take the actions of a few and generalise to the whole religion.


Maybe the few are actually following the teachings of their religion whereas the majority are not. What if most Muslims drank alcohol?

Should we conclude that Islam permits drinking alcohol?
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 27, 2010
I've started a new thread on the proper etiquette for Witch trials according to the Bible (as interpreted by US Christians).

Happy to address the other unrelated issues in separate threads - but here it just looks like you're trying to change the subject - but if you're not, you can start new threads and I'll happily respond.


Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 28, 2010
event horizon wrote:Then again, for people who eat albinos for their magical powers, I'm a bit surprised that we can really blame outsiders for what's happening.


You do realise that this is one of the most racist generalizations we've seen here. You seem to only hate Africans slightly less than you hate Muslims.

Do you really think that the African Christian Pastors carrying out exorcisms are no different from cannibals who happen to be African? Do you believe the TinTin stories about 'Africans'?

The Salem Witch trials in the US were carried out by white Christians, as were those who killed over 40,000 witches in the witch trials of Europe in centuries gone by. I'd be careful about flinging stones, your bigotry will get you into trouble.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 29, 2010
It is utmost common sense that a redneck with a shotgun is going to do more damage than a redneck with a kitchen knife or baseball bat.


Banning minarets is a pretty silly idea - hence the redneck allusions (they also believe in silly - though not sophisticated enough to be 'quaint') ideas.


Also, judging by the numbers of prisoners in Holland, it is a pretty good bet that rednecks and other non-Muslims in prison in eh's home state form a greater proportion of their respective populations than of Moroccans in Dutch prisons (the one's that haven't been closed due to a shortage of offenders, that is). But I now know better than to ask eh to look up stats!


You were asked to produced the equivalent figures from your redneck neighbours. I see that you are trying to wriggle your way out of some work. Sigh.


Does your passport say 'redneck loon' on it?


Doh ! Ol red neck pastor didn't think of that ! After he realises that lets see if he can get a burning at the stake party going on.


Shafique opines:

You do realise that this is one of the most racist generalizations we've seen here. You seem to only hate Africans slightly less than you hate Muslims.


:roll:
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 29, 2010
Touche!

Still, eh, it is blatantly clear that horrible things are done in the name of Christianity and it does reinforce the point that outliers in any faith can interpret and practice the faith in extreme ways. You keep targeting Islam when there are so many outrageous things happening in the name of faith all over the world.
kanelli
Miss DubaiForums 2006
User avatar
Posts: 6979
Location: In the Jungle

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 29, 2010
Someone remind me what Jesus said a Christian should do if his cheek is slapped - was it to blow him up with a stealth bomber? So, what would Jesus advise a young Christian to do if he felt his people were dissed by 'redneck' comments? Would he say - go forth and insult Africans?

But young eh is right to show that indeed his racist generalisation about Africans is indeed among the worst racist generalisations (not for me to judge whether it is +the+ worst) - but glad to see that he acknowledges it is a generalisation along the lines of redneck stereotypes.

So, there is no apology for smearing Africans as superstitious cannibals - just a 'what aboutery' quote.

:roll:

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 29, 2010
So, there is no apology for smearing Africans as superstitious cannibals - just a 'what aboutery' quote.


Ah, I see you're a follower of Rev. Al "HymieTown" Sharpton in dropping the race card against whites when you have a colorful history of making 'racist' statements yourself.

Still, eh, it is blatantly clear that horrible things are done in the name of Christianity and it does reinforce the point that outliers in any faith can interpret and practice the faith in extreme ways. You keep targeting Islam when there are so many outrageous things happening in the name of faith all over the world.


There are Muslims who carry out honor killings and genital mutilations (against women, for men it's circumcision) but I don't start threads about that or even comment on those issues because I'm careful to recognize the differences between cultural practices from religious - religious practices are often ones that are imported into that culture where said group of people had no real prior history in the imported beliefs and/or practices (although honor killings are pretty universal in the Muslim world).

In short, you won't see me starting threads about honor killings in America or Britain carried out by Muslims even if these honor killings had a religious tinge to them.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 29, 2010
You're not still trying to justify your racist generalisation are you?

Is the (weird) belief that I'm a racist really a good reason for your extremist views?
event horizon wrote:Then again, for people who eat albinos for their magical powers, I'm a bit surprised that we can really blame outsiders for what's happening.


And from the other thread we can see that the African Pastors seem to be only guilty of following Biblical passages that US Christians would rather didn't exist and wish to ignore. Hmm.

Racist and arrogant - not nice traits.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 29, 2010
Jesse (not Al Sharpton), do you think you need to post under a Muslim handle to fool others of your identity for you to freely express your anti-white/anti-West and anti-Jewish sentiments?

dubai-politics-talk/child-witches-denounced-african-pastors-t43911.html#p352506
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 30, 2010
LOL - my young, racist bigot friend - your fantasies and excuses for your beliefs are getting weirder by the day.

So, you slur African Christian Pastors as 'people' who practice cannibal - but at the end of the day your only criticism of their Biblical witch trials and exorcisms is that they choose to follow the Biblical punishments whilst you'd rather they ignored what the Bible said should be done to witches.

No wonder you're upset. :?

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches denounced by African Pastors Oct 30, 2010
Ah, a Jesse Jackson shake down.

You got to love Jesse "HymieTown" Jackson's moxie in dropping the race card whenever he believes someone other than him has made a racist remark:

It is utmost common sense that a redneck with a shotgun is going to do more damage than a redneck with a kitchen knife or baseball bat.


Banning minarets is a pretty silly idea - hence the redneck allusions (they also believe in silly - though not sophisticated enough to be 'quaint') ideas.


Also, judging by the numbers of prisoners in Holland, it is a pretty good bet that rednecks and other non-Muslims in prison in eh's home state form a greater proportion of their respective populations than of Moroccans in Dutch prisons (the one's that haven't been closed due to a shortage of offenders, that is). But I now know better than to ask eh to look up stats!


You were asked to produced the equivalent figures from your redneck neighbours. I see that you are trying to wriggle your way out of some work. Sigh.


Does your passport say 'redneck loon' on it?


But seriously, just change my one quote referring to the superstitious beliefs of the people in the region to 'redneck' and it certainly wouldn't raise eyebrows next to the other comments mentioning the criminality and low iq of 'rednecks' in the above statements.

Better yet, change 'redneck' to their African equivalent.

Now Jesse, to whom should I make the check out to - you or Rainbow Push Headquarters?

Oh, who am I kidding, the money goes to the same pockets.
event horizon
UAE, Dubai Forums Lord of the posts
User avatar
Posts: 5503

  • Reply
Re: Child Witches Denounced By African Pastors Oct 30, 2010
So, you believe that redneck references justify you holding racist views against fellow Christians from Africa.

What a weird logic you have.

Cheers,
Shafique
shafique
Dubai Shadow Wolf
User avatar
Posts: 13442

posting in Dubai Politics TalkForum Rules

Return to Dubai Politics Talk