Belgium First European Country To Ban Burka

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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Red Chief - see the highlighted references from Homer:

The use of the veil is often seen either as an Islamic invention and tradition, thus dating from the period after Mohammed's death in 632 or an Eastern tradition stemming from Syria, Palestine and Byzantium which, through the Arab conquests and the spread of Islam, became common in Arab and neighbouring countries. However, the tradition is "western" as well. In Homer's world the veil, kredemnon, relates to a chaste woman. When Penelope descends from her room to the court-yard, which is dominated by suitors, she does not go alone and she always ensures that she covers her face:

And from her upper chamber the daughter of Icarius, wise Penelope, heard his wondrous song, and she went down the high stairway from her chamber, not alone, for two handmaids attended her. Now when the fair lady had come to the wooers, she stood by the doorpost of the well-built hall, holding before her face her shining veil; and a faithful handmaid stood on either side of her (Od. 1.328-336).

Of course, Penelope, as an attractive "widow", has to attend carefully to the correct moral stance, but that applies to Nausicaa and her handmaidens, too, when they go to the river to wash the laundry and afterwards enjoy a leisurely time:

Then when they had had their joy of food, she and her handmaids, they threw off their headgear and fell to playing at ball, and white-armed Nausicaa was leader in the song. (Od 6, 99-100).



http://www.hist.uib.no/antikk/antres/Womens%20life.htm
(Worth reading in full for the details of women in classical times)

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Shafique

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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
shafique wrote:To answer your question - of course these ladies are being hypocritical and are pushing the boundaries of the dress code and making a mockery of the reason for covering up the 'normal' clothes when one goes out in public.

I don't think so. Hypocrat is definitely another person. The women were supressed and have no choice or opportunity to change their belief. Burgka is Ok, but nice dress - no! It's the men's world. Right? :wink:

As for Penelopa she waited her beloved husband and lived without protection in faces of seekers, who acted very aggressively. That's why she weared veil. It's ocasional dress.

Anyway it's XXI century now, when women achived a lot. Why do you dig 3000 years back? It has only academic value now. Do you write thesis?
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Re: Belgium First European Country To Ban Burka May 07, 2010
Hey, I'm just a firm believer that if we don't know our history, we are bound to repeat mistakes.

I thought it was an intersting fact that the veil pre-dates Islam and was worn by Athenian women - it surprised me to uncover this fact. (I was aware that the Athenians waged wars - almost annually, kept slaves etc- but not that the women wore veils)

I agree it has academic value today - but would not not characterise it as 'only academic value'!

In a thread about the banning of veils, it does have a delicious irony though - doesn't it? Your initial reaction that it wasn't true spoke volumes ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Dubai Knight wrote:
So tell me, is this an expression of covering up her feminine attractions? Why go to all this trouble if she is not trying to show off her attributes?

No.


Blame it on the male chauvinist founders of capitalism. Nicely managed to put women into the centre point of consumption. So much so that core values of religion and modesty had to be ceased in favor of darwinist/atheist/feminist propaganda to nourish it.
They exploited enough women in the west and now it's the turn of muslim ladies on muslim lands or whereever they live.

The Debauchery of American Womanhood

On my wall, I have a picture of a Muslim woman shrouded in a burka[1].

Beside it is a picture of an American beauty contestant, wearing nothing but a bikini.

One woman is totally hidden from the public; the other is totally exposed. These two extremes say a great deal about the clash of so-called “civilizations.”

The role of woman is at the heart of any culture. Apart from stealing Arab oil, the impending war in the Middle East is about stripping Arabs of their religion and culture, exchanging the burka for a bikini.

I am not an expert on the condition of Muslim women and I love feminine beauty too much to advocate the burka here. But I am defending some of the values that the burka represents for me.

For me, the burka represents a woman’s consecration to her husband and family. Only they see her.

It affirms the privacy, exclusivity and importance of the domestic sphere.

The Muslim woman’s focus is her home, the “nest” where her children are born and reared. She is the “home” maker, the taproot that sustains the spiritual life of the family, nurturing and training her children, providing refuge and support to her husband.

In contrast, the bikinied American beauty queen struts practically naked in front of millions on TV. A feminist, she belongs to herself. In practice, paradoxically, she is public property. She belongs to no one and everyone. She shops her body to the highest bidder. She is auctioning herself all of the time.

In America, the cultural measure of a woman’s value is her sex appeal. (As this asset depreciates quickly, she is neurotically obsessed with appearance and plagued by weight problems.)

As an adolescent, her role model is Britney Spears, a singer whose act approximates a strip tease. From Britney, she learns that she will be loved only if she gives sex. Thus, she learns to “hook up” rather than to demand patient courtship and true love. As a result, dozens of males know her before her husband does. She loses her innocence, which is a part of her charm. She becomes hardened and calculating. Unable to love, she is unfit to receive her husband’s seed.

The feminine personality is founded on the emotional relationship between mother and baby. It is based on nurturing and self-sacrifice. Masculine nature is founded on the relationship between hunter and prey. It is based on aggression and reason.

Feminism teaches woman that feminine nature has resulted in “oppression” and that she should convert to male behavior instead. The result: a confused and aggressive woman with a large chip on her shoulder, unfit to become a wife or mother.

This, of course, is the goal of the social engineers at the NWO: undermine sexual identity and destroy the family, create social and personal dysfunction, and reduce population. In the “brave new world,” women are not supposed to be “nest” makers, or progenitors of the race. They are meant to be neutered autonomous creatures that indulge in sex for physical pleasure, not for love or procreation.

At his press conference on Sunday, Donald Rumsfeld said that Iranian women and youth were restive under the rule of the Mullahs. He implied that the US would soon liberate them. To Britney Spears? To low-rise “see-my-thong” pants? To the mutual masturbation that passes for sexuality in America?

Parenthood is the pinnacle of human development. It is the stage when we finally graduate from self-indulgence and become God’s surrogates: creating and nurturing new life. The New World Order does not want us to reach this level of maturity. Pornography is the substitute for marriage. We are to remain stunted: single, sex-starved and self-obsessed.

We are not meant to have a permanent “private” life. We are to remain lonely and isolated, dependent on consumer products for our identity, in a state of perpetual courtship.

This is especially destructive for woman. Her sexual attraction is a function of her fertility. As fertility declines, so does her sex appeal. If a woman devotes her prime years to becoming “independent,” she is not likely to find a permanent mate.

Her long-term personal fulfillment and happiness lies in making marriage and family her first priority.

Feminism is another cruel New World Order hoax that has debauched American women and despoiled Western civilization. It has ruined millions of lives and represents a lethal threat to Islam.

I am not advocating the burka but rather some of the values that it represents, specifically a woman’s consecration to her future husband and family, and the modesty and dignity this entails...[2]

About the author:
Henry Makow, is the inventor of the board game Scruples, and the author of A Long Way to go for a Date. He received his Ph.D. in English Literature from the University of Toronto.

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/532/

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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Berrin wrote:Blame it on the male chauvinist founders of capitalism. Nicely managed to put women into the centre point of consumption. So much so that core values of religion and modesty had to be ceased in favor of darwinist/atheist/feminist propaganda to nourish it.
They exploited enough women in the west and now it's the turn of muslim ladies on muslim lands or whereever they live.


Actually it was women themselves, who struggled for equal rights against "the male chauvinist founders of capitalism". In the middle of XIX century they have less rights than blacks in US. So it was a long fight in US and UK.
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Berrin wrote:
Dubai Knight wrote:
So tell me, is this an expression of covering up her feminine attractions? Why go to all this trouble if she is not trying to show off her attributes?

No.


Blame it on the male chauvinist founders of capitalism. Nicely managed to put women into the centre point of consumption. So much so that core values of religion and modesty had to be ceased in favor of darwinist/atheist/feminist propaganda to nourish it.
They exploited enough women in the west and now it's the turn of muslim ladies on muslim lands or whereever they live.


This has nothing to do with Western capitalism! Thats just dogma. This is the women's own choice to express themselves in this way (see it as their cry for freedom) something they are sadly lacking.

If they truly didn't want to bling themselves up and go out on parade, they would either stay at home or cover completely. Females enjoy being admired, they need it on an animal level and they also are driven to it by Darwinian principles.

Men are exactly the same. They are driven to do things that enhance their masculinity in the eyes of potential mates, which here tends to be the acquisition and abuse of a fast car or the wearing of a valuable watch and carrying of a Mont Blanc pen. They are visible status symbols that tell a potential partner that 'I am successful and therefore higher genetic material'. Would they be seen as the victims of male chauvinist propaganda?

Nature will always find a way and anything 'people' do to try and stop it will fail eventually. This constriction of human nature is unnatural and is why those nations that have evolved beyond it, see the wearing of the veil as archaiic and an infringement on the rights of the individual.

:? :? :?

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Re: Belgium First European Country To Ban Burka May 07, 2010
shafique wrote:Hey, I'm just a firm believer that if we don't know our history, we are bound to repeat mistakes.

Not so easy, Shafique. It is not YOUR history but OUR history. So it looks rather like a throwing stone than the lesson. :wink:
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Dubai Knight wrote:
Berrin wrote:
Dubai Knight wrote:
So tell me, is this an expression of covering up her feminine attractions? Why go to all this trouble if she is not trying to show off her attributes?

No.


Blame it on the male chauvinist founders of capitalism. Nicely managed to put women into the centre point of consumption. So much so that core values of religion and modesty had to be ceased in favor of darwinist/atheist/feminist propaganda to nourish it.
They exploited enough women in the west and now it's the turn of muslim ladies on muslim lands or whereever they live.


This has nothing to do with Western capitalism! Thats just dogma. This is the women's own choice to express themselves in this way (see it as their cry for freedom) something they are sadly lacking.

If they truly didn't want to bling themselves up and go out on parade, they would either stay at home or cover completely. Females enjoy being admired, they need it on an animal level and they also are driven to it by Darwinian principles.

Men are exactly the same. They are driven to do things that enhance their masculinity in the eyes of potential mates, which here tends to be the acquisition and abuse of a fast car or the wearing of a valuable watch and carrying of a Mont Blanc pen. They are visible status symbols that tell a potential partner that 'I am successful and therefore higher genetic material'. Would they be seen as the victims of male chauvinist propaganda?

Nature will always find a way and anything 'people' do to try and stop it will fail eventually. This constriction of human nature is unnatural and is why those nations that have evolved beyond it, see the wearing of the veil as archaiic and an infringement on the rights of the individual.

:? :? :?

Knight


^^^^^ :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: ^^^
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Red Chief wrote:
In the middle of XIX century they have less rights than blacks in US. So it was a long fight in US and UK.

Islam didn't arrive for no reason. Blame it on corrupt jewish/christian popes and monks lied and cheated women continously to keep their male chauvinist status to last. No wonder why women had to fight for their rights that islam gave them 1400 years ago that they didn't know.
And they still lie to this date to keep church status in the name of the nations of christianhood while turning blind eye to the destroyed lifes of christian women in the hands of brutal capital holders.

The Church’s founding fathers, men who formulated Christian belief and canonized the Bible, supported this view: ‘Don’t you know that you are each an Eve?’ God’s sentence on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the Devil’s gateway: you are the unsealer of the forbidden tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law: you are she who persuaded him whom the devil wasn’t valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God’s image, man. (St. Tertullian)

“Woman is a daughter of falsehood, a sentinel of Hell, the enemy of peace; through her Adam lost paradise.” (St. John Damascene)

‘God created Adam Lord of all living creatures, but Eve spoiled it all. Women should remain at home, sit still, keep house and bear children. And if they (women) grow tired or, even, die (from giving birth), it does not matter. Let her die from in childbirth; that’s why they are there.’ (Martin Luther).


The Veil Unveiled: The True Status of Women in Islam
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/287/viewall/
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
I don't no the reason as well as don't care about the religion of Paul but common sence tells me that nobody gives rights without fights from the seeker. Probably it's too Marxist approach... :wink:
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Re: Belgium First European Country To Ban Burka May 07, 2010
Red Chief wrote:
shafique wrote:Hey, I'm just a firm believer that if we don't know our history, we are bound to repeat mistakes.

Not so easy, Shafique. It is not YOUR history but OUR history. So it looks rather like a throwing stone than the lesson. :wink:


'My' history is that of the human race - hence why I said 'our' and 'we' in the quote above. ;)

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Shafique
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Dubai knight wrote:
This has nothing to do with Western capitalism! Thats just dogma.


It seems that the popes had failed to teach you the purpose of life...maybe they didn't know in the first place..

The The Judeo-Christian Answer
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/186/

Islam and the aim of life
http://www.saaid.net/islam/2.htm

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Berrin
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Berrin wrote:
Dubai knight wrote:
This has nothing to do with Western capitalism! Thats just dogma.


It seems that the popes had failed to teach you the purpose of life...maybe they didn't know in the first place..

The The Judeo-Christian Answer
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/186/

Islam and the aim of life
http://www.saaid.net/islam/2.htm

.


HAHA!

MAybe some people doesnt need the pope or Islam to teach them the purpose of life, how to live, what to eat, what to wear etc etc
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Red Chief wrote:
common sence tells me that nobody gives rights without fights from the seeker.


Why shouldn't you give the rights without fights if you have faith and a true BELIEVER ..hence importance of religion..
Men were introduced to these values 1400 years ago at least.
They are:
- sincerity
- honesty/truthfulness
- equity
- goodness
- fairness
- justice
- kindness
- generosity
- compassion
- charity
- humility
- purity/cleanliness
- protection/self-defense

And what is clearly admonished against are

- concealment
- untruthfulness/lies/dishonesty
- inequity
- arrogance/haughtiness
- gratuitous aggression
- transgression

-- Fri May 07, 2010 11:35 am --

MAybe some people doesnt need the pope or Islam to teach them the purpose of life, how to live, what to eat, what to wear etc etc

Right..So noone should equally give a toss as to how others see the islamic dress code and what some may think about islam and muslim men etc etc.
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
The only concept, I cannot see in this long list, is freedom. It reveals a lot. :wink:
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Red Chief wrote:
The only concept, I cannot see in this long list, is freedom. It reveals a lot.

Really?
In Islam freedom is an inalienable right which enable man to lead a moral and upright life, and brings him under the mantle of the justice and mercy of Allah.

THE CONCEPT OF FREEDOM IN ISLAM

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.
"And those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in the Torah and the Gospel, bidding them to do what is right and forbidding them what is wrong, making lawful for them the good (things), and forbidding for them the corrupt (things) and relieving them of their burdens, and the fetters that were upon them. Those who believe in him and honour him, and help him and follow the light while has been sent down with him - those are they the successful." Holy Qur'an (7:157)

Submission to the will and laws of Allah is the source of all freedom. It liberates the mind, soul, and behaviour from the evil influences of the world. It helps mankind overcome oppressive tyrants, unjust laws, lusts, deviation and psychological complexes which enslave his will. Submission to the will of Allah grants man the right to choose a better way of life, to live his life in a moral and upright way.Islam was revealed to the Prophet of humanity as merciful, eternal and all powerful. If during his life man submits to the will of Allah, he can depend on His mercy at the time of judgement.

"And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the world." (21:107)

The Prophet (s.a.w.) is quoted as having said:
"Surely, I am a granted mercy."

Islam freed mankind from the darkness of polytheism, slavery, and injustice. It introduced the light of faith. It opened the doors to moral and social reform, and created an atmosphere of security and safety in which man was free to think, invent, and seek the road to perfection and salvation.

Freedom is the source from which the tree of life grows. A little sapling needs of light, water, air, a spacious field in which to grow, extend its branches, bloom and bear fruit. So, too, does freedom need the light and guidance of Islam to flourish. If the young tree is deprived of light and space its growth will be distorted and stunted. So, also will oppression and servitude deprive man of his moral freedom. Oppression and servitude are like a horrible prison in which terror and tyranny devour man's self image, his will and his desire to grow spiritually. It deprives human life of all sense of a higher purpose, robs man of his free will and destroys all that is good in human nature.

Islam came to break man's fetters and tear dawn the wall of this prison. It enabled mankind to cast off the chains that hindered his growth and induced him to give proper expression to his humanity and follow the path to moral perfection. It created an atmosphere of hope and optimism which gave a true meaning to human existence.

The freedom that Islam grants is based on commitment and responsibility without which there can be no true freedom. Freedom without restraints leads only to nihilism, the consequence of which is the complete breakdown of the moral and social order.

The irresponsible concept of freedom expounded by existentialism, democracy and modern theories of freedom of expression lead only to corruption and immorality since they are not tied to any concept higher moral values or self control. For Islam, freedom lies in commitment and responsibility. They form an integral part of each other and can in no way be separated. There is no freedom of choice without responsibility; no responsibility without freedom.

The Ullama (scholars), over centuries, have studied and researched the relationship between freedom and responsibility. On the basis of their research they produced their explanation of human behaviour, and outlined their connection with the divine justice. They concluded that if man were deprived of free will and the right to choose his path in life, he could never be reconciled with Allah, the Glorified.

Because Allah has granted man free will, which allows him to choose his course in life, man is answerable to Allah for his actions.

"Surely We have shown him the way: he may be thankful or unthankful."(76:3)

"...Nay! man is evidence against himself, Though he puts forth his excuses."(75:14-15)

Divine reward or punishment is ordained in accordance with man's free will. Without free will and its adherent responsibility and commitment there could be neither reward nor punishment.

"And stop them, for they shall be questioned." (37:24)

"And We have made every man's actions to cling to his neck, and We will bring forth to him on the Resurrection Day a book which he will find wide open. Read your book; your own self is sufficient as a reckoner against you this Day." (17:13-14)

Because Islam insists that man has free will because that is the way that Allah created him. It allows him to express this freedom and to practise it within the limits of commitment and responsibility and self control. Man has an obligation to choose the path of righteousness, and to safeguard his freedom and that of others.

Because Islam grants free will, it is expected that man will use it to further his knowledge in all areas which help in the improvement of the human lot on this earth. Otherwise, freedom may become a tool of destruction, annihilation and doctrinal deviation. Man is urged, by Islam, to consider the physical and spiritual welfare of others in all his endeavors. This prevents freedom from being turned into a dictatorship, exploiting other's inalienable rights to share in nature's natural resources.

Political freedom in Islam is a means of leading mankind to justice, goodness and peace. It guarantees and protects the political rights of all.

Art and literature should reflect the values of the Holy Our'an, and emphasize love, goodness and human relations in an aesthetic way. Irresponsible freedom in these areas leads to pornography, debauchery, and disrespectful for all moral values.

Man should therefore, practise his personal freedom without encroaching on the rights of others and deviating from a correct moral conduct. In an atmosphere which respects the rights and freedoms of others, mankind can grow and prosper. Life is filled with knowledge and good deeds. Freed from lusts and the control of tyrants, man can find his way to true happiness.

Freedom is "the power to choose and determine one's position". As such, man should choose and decide carefully on a course of action which would best benefit himself and others.

Freedom does not mean to satisfy all his instincts. Nor does it mean to give into the pressure of lusts and desires. Behaviour should be guided always by our inane sense of what is right and should not be motivated by our desire for pleasure or immediate gratification.

The collapse of the civilization and man' s fall into misery and helplessness are direct consequences of permissiveness and the frenzied pursuit of pleasure. The Qur'an presents us with lessons drawn from history. It tells us of nations and communities that destroyed themselves by ignoring the way of Allah and following only the way of the flesh, being ruled by their unnatural desires.

Allah, the Almighty, says:

"But there came after them an evil generation, who neglected prayers and followed the sensual desires, so they will meet perdition." Holy Qur'an (19:59)

"So leave them plunging into false discourses and sporting until they meet their day which they are threatened with." Holy Qur'an (43:83)

"Like those before you, who were stronger than you in power, and more abundant in wealth and children; so they enjoyed their share; so you enjoy your share, as those before you enjoyed their share. You have gossiped as they gossiped. Those it was whose deeds shall be nullified in this world and in the Hereafter; and those - they are the losers. Has there not come to them the tidings of those who were before them - of the people of Noah, and Ad and Thamood, and the people of Abraham, the in habitants and the destroyed cities? Their Messenger came to them with the clear signs; Allah would not wrong them, but they wronged themselves." Holy Qur'an (9:69-70)

The emphasis on materialism and freedom without responsibilities in today's societies is destroying the social and moral fabric of these societies. It gives rise to moral decadence, promiscuity, crime and a lack of respect for all moral, legal and natural courses of actions.

Freedom is abused and has become a subversive tool, a scourge to mankind. This abuse of freedom has resulted in chaos throughout the world. It has led to corruption, crime, war, poverty, drug addictions, alcoholism and life destroying diseases such as AIDS.

DRUGS

National and international organizations agree in their surveys that drug addiction throughout the industrialized world is increasing at an alarming rate. This increase is taking place in spite of massive public awareness campaigns and millions of dollars spent on education. Thousands of people are jailed through the world every day for drugs related crime. But the true causes of drug addiction- the breakdown of moral values, the helplessness and despair of the underprivileged, and the emphasis of a secular society on instant self gratification and solution of problems- are never addressed.

Let the statistics speak for themselves:

Drug addiction is increasing at an alarming speed. More than 50 million people worldwide are thought to be addicted to drugs. It is estimated that among the poor, black ghettos of North American cities the addiction rate is 50%. Across the population at large surveys suggest that 20% of the people are addicted either to drugs or alcohol. Rates are highest amongst the young. Millions of dollars, that could be spent on bettering the lives of the poor and underprivileged, are wasted on the war against drugs, and drug pushers.

In 1980s, with the introduction of crack cocaine into the U.S.A. the crime rate due to drug addiction increased dramatically. It is estimated that at least 60% of young America have experimented with drugs. In one report of high school students (1988) 47% of students had smoked marijuana and hashish, over 90% had tried alcohol. (Drugs, Society and Human Behaviour: 1990).

There is no reason to expect that the figures are any lower in the other industrialized countries.

In the Soviet Union alcoholics are now estimated to number about 40 million. This is having an adverse effect on the country's industrialization and production figures.

The Paris based "Jeune Afrique" magazine reported that 60% of traffic accidents and 40% of divorce cases are as a result of alcoholism. In 1986, in Japan, 25524 people commuted suicide. (National Police Agency of Japan: 1987). The numbers are expected to increase as materialism takes its toll on the Japanese population).

In Britain one out of every five children suffers from the consequence of family breakdown. Drug addiction and related crime are reaching unprecedented rates and bringing appalling suffering to the people.

SEX AND DISEASES

Human life is gravely threatened by the collapse of the natural male-female relationship, free sex, debauchery and man's lack of self control. Dangerous and often fatal diseases are the natural consequence of unlicensed sexual practices.

Throughout the world it is estimated that between 5 and 10 million people carry the AIDS virus. It is expected that at the close of this century there will be over 100 million infected people who because of the laxity of moral standards will continue to infect others.

AIDS is an epidemic disease. It destroys the body's immune system and leads to an appalling death. So far no cure has been discovered for it although it is well known that sexual abstinence can prevent it. Except in the rare circumstances where aid is contacted through infected blood transfusion and medical contact, AIDS is a result of illegal drug use (infected intravenous needle use) and illicit homosexual and heterosexual relationships. It is spreading rapidly throughout the world wherever moral values are not upheld.

The "Sunday Times" of London has reported that Britain may lose 10,000 citizens to AIDS before the end of the century.

The number of AIDS victims doubles every eight months. The report stressed that the number of victims, which at the time of the report stood at 512 was equal to the number of cases in the USA four years previously. The report criticized the British government's attitude towards the disease which it concludes is not taking the disease, its causes and effects seriously enough.

In the USA the number of AIDS victims continue to rise at alarming rates. More children are born with the disease and suffer dreadfully throughout their short lives. Educational authorities, hoping to stem the increase of victims, emphasize "self-sex" rather than stressing the moral turpitude that leads to the disease in most cases. It appears that the authorities believe that moral values have no role to play in the correction of the disease. They would be well advised to look at Muslim countries where strict moral values are the norm and consequently such diseases do not exist.

These statistics and reports draw a grim picture of the consequences of the materialistic life which has turned its back on Allah and all the moral and spiritual values of the Holy Qur'an.

The appalling suffering brought about by these diseases and addictions are a result of man's inability to practise freedom with restraint, and responsibility. The limitless freedom has resulted in chaos, disorder, crime, despair and death and for many the annihilation of the very freedom they wished to express.

Our young people were attracted by the outward manifestation of the freedom of the west. They did not understand the dangerous, destructive underside of the materialistic world. They looked to the West for ideas on clothing, eating and social conduct forgetting that the price of such behaviour is a loss of moral values. Lured by the fashionable clothing and standards of behaviour, they absorbed the bankrupt moral codes of the west, ignoring for the moment their own superior values. Many perceived, too late, the moral void that existed underneath the veneer of civilization.

Those who understand freedom as a license to act as one pleases should look to the Western societies and observe the fruit of such thinking. One of the major results is that women viewed freedom as breaking away from the home. Sexual freedom was unrestrained by moral commitment or responsibilities and promiscuity raged and ravaged the population.
The family collapsed and a generation of children was lost- a generation which is in need of love and care. The results are seen everywhere in drinking, drug taking and crime which is destroying millions of young lives.

Economic freedom is seen as a means to exploit the underprivileged by bribery and corruption. A capitalist class, whose sole aim is to amass wealth in the hands of a few, has grown powerful and influential on the sweat of others.

Man has an obligation to pursue knowledge and to increase his skills and to use them in his life. But, we should distinguish between science and useful products and civilizations which means guiding society towards a certain point in accordance with certain methods.

The Muslim should keep in mind that his outlook on moral behaviour should always be in accordance with the Creator of the Universe and His ordained principles and moral values. A divine civilization is that which is ordained by the Islamic Message. Man, in this philosophy, is a servant of Allah. Allah alone has full authority over man. Within the framework of obedience to the Will of Allah, man can live a life founded on justice and wisdom and exercise his divine given rights of freedom in his daily behaviour.

The necessity to think through one's actions and accept responsibility for them are clearly specified by Prophetic tradition:

"Should you set your mind on doing something, think of its outcome. If it is honest, go ahead. But if it is dishonest, refrain from doing it."

We must discover our God given personality and understand and be sincere in our beliefs. Only by doing so we can become strong enough to resist imitating others and their seductive but unethical moral codes of behaviour.

Islam encourages freedom of thought, speech, politics, economy, individual conduct, but insists that this freedom encompass a sense of responsibility and commitment. By doing so, Islam aims to build strong, unwavering characters who are secure in their self knowledge and have confidence in themselves and their values, and whose behaviour will always reflect their strength.

The Prophet (s.a.w.) warned us not to be foolish imitators of others. He urged us to develop our independent characters nourished by Islamic teachings.

He (s.a.w.) has said:

"Do not be a mere imitator with no firm determination. You say, 'I am with the people. Should people do good, so do I. And if they do evil, so do I'. But school yourselves. If people do good so should you. But if they do evil shun their evil deeds".

The Our'an and the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) nourished the Islamic concept of freedom. Never did he deny his followers freedom of expression. Muslims could always speak their minds while in his presence. He consulted them about his revelations and listened to their views and counsels. The first Muslim community lived in unprecedented freedom under the banner of the Holy Our'an and the leadership of the guiding Messenger. Everyone lived in an atmosphere of social justice and harmony. There was no place for pride and arrogance. Even as the teeth of a comb did they live. The only privilege accorded to anyone was that conferred by piety. All nations lived as one.

The pre- Islamic society into which Islam was revealed was pastoral. Its pillars were slavery, exploitation and injustice.

Islam laid down the principles of justice, equality and freedom and established moral values. Since the concept of slavery was entrenched in the pre-Islamic world, and equally contrary to the Islamic concept of freedom, many inducements to free slaves were introduced. Freeing a slave could help expiate sin. Sin is a spiritual perversion, called by the Holy Qur'an "a deviation, a malady". It separated man from Allah and His Mercy.

Manumission of a slave was one way in which a sinner could show remorse and atone for his sins and so be restored to grace.

There were many sins which could be atoned for in this way; a Muslim who was unable to fast during the Holy month of Ramadan: false testimony; breaking a sacred pledge to Allah; al-Dihar[1]. premeditated murder, or unjust murder, or even unintended murder as in the case of the death of a fetus: women cutting off their hair as a sigh of deep mourning or self mutilation for the same reason; all these could be atoned for by emancipating a slave without giving sanction to the sins. Emancipation had always to be accompanied by true contrition.

Islam, moreover, allocated a certain percentage of zakat revenues (an Islamic tax) for the purpose of emancipating slaves and established the laws of al-Mukatabah[2], and al-Tadbi[3] to legalize and be instrumental in the process of manumission.

Throughout the books of fiqh (jurisprudence) and Islamic legislation there are numerous rules and details about the emancipation of slaves. Slaves were freed primarily so that they could live in the freedom and dignity of Islam and be emancipated in soul as much as in body. Thus, it is clear that from the very beginning freedom of the individual was of paramount importance in Islam.

"And surely We have honoured the children of Adam, and We carry them in the land and the sea, and We have given them the good things, and We have made them to excel by an appropriate excellent over most of those whom We have created." Holy Qur'an (17:70)

In Islam freedom is an inalienable right which enable man to lead a moral and upright life, and brings him under the mantle of the justice and mercy of Allah.

Praise be to Allah, the Lord of the worlds.


http://home.swipnet.se/islam/articles/c ... reedom.htm

.
Berrin
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
He-he, Your freedom looks like absolute serfdom. It reminds me a translation of Hellenic text about theatre by Averroes. He never saw any performance and European couldn't understand what he wrote about.

Recently one educated London born Moslem woman asked me: "You always speak about theatre. What do you mean? Opera?" A few years ago she left London for Dubai and here this knowledge is definitely not necessary. :wink:
Red Chief
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
This is what I thought serfdom meant to be..Haven't you learned your lessons..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serfdom_in_Russia
Berrin
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
Berrin wrote:
Why shouldn't you give the rights without fights if you have faith and a true BELIEVER ..hence importance of religion..
Men were introduced to these values 1400 years ago at least.
They are:
- sincerity
- honesty/truthfulness
- equity
- goodness
- fairness
- justice
- kindness
- generosity
- compassion
- charity
- humility
- purity/cleanliness
- protection/self-defense

And what is clearly admonished against are

- concealment
- untruthfulness/lies/dishonesty
- inequity
- arrogance/haughtiness
- gratuitous aggression
- transgression

-- Fri May 07, 2010 11:35 am --

MAybe some people doesnt need the pope or Islam to teach them the purpose of life, how to live, what to eat, what to wear etc etc

Right..So noone should equally give a toss as to how others see the islamic dress code and what some may think about islam and muslim men etc etc.


I won't go into the rights and wrongs of the items listed as it would merely descend into 'there are always bad people in every religion' but I will pick up on the red highlighted references to MEN throughout.

Where are the rights of WOMEN mentioned?
When are they even considered?

It would seem to be not at all!

:x :x :x

Knight
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 07, 2010
:lol:

I hear you..here here

http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b2index.htm

hey DK they have scary rights, aren't they..no wonder why men feeeear women..

Now lets come back to this issue. Do you think those values will ever liberate MEN eh? :wink:
Berrin
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
Berrin wrote::lol:

I hear you..here here

http://www.muslimtents.com/shaufi/b2index.htm

hey DK they have scary rights, aren't they..no wonder why men feeeear women..

Now lets come back to this issue. Do you think those values will ever liberate MEN eh? :wink:


Interesting link!

It repeatedly states that Mohammed (PBUH) clearly tells men and women that they should cover up their bodies 'But that they need to keep their faces and the palms of their hands uncovered'

Has anyone in Saudi or Afghanistan ever read the Kor'an?

There goes the Belgian security argument in a nutshell.

In fact, this just goes to prove that the covering of a woman's face is purely a restriction laid upon them by jealous men and religious zealots.

:x :x :x

Knight
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
There goes the Belgian security argument in a nutshell.
In fact, this just goes to prove that the covering of a woman's face is purely a restriction laid upon them by jealous men and religious zealots.


How about a pair of big s.exy cat eyes with succulent hot lips. :drunken:

Imagine you just pass by one of these women..wouldn't you die to say...oooouw baby..like your hot lips..would you wanna be mine tonight.. line of harassment.
sxy eyes.jpg
Be my, be my baby
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Berrin
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
He-he,
Hiding ladies behind burkha cannot stop one's lust. Berrin, tennis and beach volleyball are also hurum for ladies, aren't they? Excitative?
8) 8) 8)

Oh, sorry. Sport like thetre is a concept from another planet. :wink:
Red Chief
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
Red Chief wrote:
Oh, sorry. Sport like thetre is a concept from another planet


ssshht our subject is a believing woman and a believing man in veil as partners...We're not talking about atheist life style, alriiiiittte..I know there are no boundaries in the life of such fanciers,if they wish.

Sooo, beliving men and women realize that their life on earth is a transient one like 80 years more/less..however they too prepare themselves for the stage by preparing a huge screen play that takes them about 80 years to complete...But trust me their theatrical show in the next life will be much bigger than you can ever imagine here with your senses!

So what's wrong with that mate?...It's just that it takes them much longer rather than a year or so as in material life...
Berrin
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
Berrin wrote:Imagine you just pass by one of these women..wouldn't you die to say...oooouw baby..like your hot lips..would you wanna be mine tonight.. line of harassment.


No. seriously not. I do appreciate female beauty, but wouldn't have the urge to say the above and fantasize about s.ex. Your statement is actually what I thought all the time. Only real (dangerous) horndogs can understand why women have to cover themselves. Stabile, secure mature men don't. I find the need for a woman to cover herself actually insulting to men, like they cannot control themselves. Only s.exually frustated men can understand and will argue the case for women covering themselves, because they are the only ones that fully understand the reason. It takes one to understand one.
Flying Dutchman
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
Flying Dutchman wrote:
Berrin wrote:Imagine you just pass by one of these women..wouldn't you die to say...oooouw baby..like your hot lips..would you wanna be mine tonight.. line of harassment.


No. seriously not. I do appreciate female beauty, but wouldn't have the urge the say the above and fantasize about s.ex. Your statement is actually what I thought all the time. Only real (dangerous) horndogs can understand why women have to cover themselves. Stabile, mature men don't. I find the need for a woman to cover herself actually insulting to men, like they cannot control themselves. Only s.exually frustated men can understand and will argue the case for women covering themselves, because they are the only ones that fully understand the reason.


Hear hear FD! Its all about self control.

Anyway the girl in the picture may look gorgeous, but the reality as a person is possibly far different. After all she is a model and therefore knows she is attractive and has chosen this career path because of it. She may therefore be very shallow and manipulative. I know a lot of models and I am afraid to say the majority are this way. The business makes them so.

:( :( :(

Knight
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
No. seriously not. I do appreciate female beauty, but wouldn't have the urge the say the above and fantasize about s.ex.


Well a 90 year old man may not have the urge to say it but a young man who is experiencing adulthood with racing male hormones could jolly well do it without enough life experience and personal maturity.
What I am saying is that since there are no homogeneous human behaviour regardless of age and maturity, it is not possible to predict where the danger or harrasment may come from.
Objectives of veiling can be self protection by distracting male attention,as well as giving comfort to ladies who are fragile and shy or concerned with haya and adeb while mixing in society.

I find the need for a woman to cover herself actually insulting to men, like they cannot control themselves.

Noone can speak on behalf of the other..Can you give life time warranty that everone will be able to control themselves. We even have homos and lesbies promoted for legal marriage these days.
But how about looking at this issue from believers side. A single/married muslim men can also have a mind of their own in opposite direction.. What are you gonna do? start fighting?

Only s.exually frustated men can understand and will argue the case for women covering themselves, because they are the only ones that fully understand the reason.


No only an atheist muslim or a non-muslim who has nothing to do with religion,belief in the message of the creator can have such strong opinion or resilience to women's exterior look which is I find very personal and have nothing to do with what I feel. On the other hand someone who think they are belivers with knowledge but without practise can actually stay tolerant without pride and never make infuriating comments to stir up public tranquillity.

But hey do you object to women in veil couse you think you're single and fear you can't find the woman of your life otherwise? 8)
Berrin
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
There is a saying: the eyes are the windows to the soul:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


I'm watching you Berrin

Image
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
Bora, is it a cougar on your avatar?
8) 8) 8)
Red Chief
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Re: Belgium first European country to ban burka May 08, 2010
Dubai Knight wrote:
Anyway the girl in the picture may look gorgeous, but the reality as a person is possibly far different. After all she is a model and therefore knows she is attractive and has chosen this career path because of it. She may therefore be very shallow and manipulative.


Oiii are you saying that a plain dull looking woman cannot transform into a beauty queen.
Here we gooo, there are millions of women like this....

taliban style.jpg
give thumbs up for Taliban ladies..


You see you're a believing woman and invited to a family gathering at in-laws for a special day party. You want to look good and prepared yourself before living home and looking so gorgeous?

Hey are you too a single one?

.

-- Sat May 08, 2010 8:36 pm --

Bora Bora wrote:
I'm watching you Berrin


Glad you dooo..

Where did you find those burners from Bora.

You see you prove the point, veiled or unveiled they are irresistible no matter what you do, the beauty always leaks out sparkles and duzzles the eyes and feelings of someone be it a man or a lesbie or a jealous woman looking at them.

So I decided I'll stay Taliban and stick to it..

taliban style.jpg
give thumbs up for Taliban ladies..


End of argument, as we can never stop talking about woman jewels and attractions.


something terribly gone wrong with mail merger, can't do anything about it. :evil:
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