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shafique · Oct 08, 2011

Or it could be that eh's whole argument about me being an Anti-Semite relies on your deceitful misquote of Karmi.

Shouldn't you help out your young friend - he's desperately trying to avoid talking about the paragraph you quoted and is spinning other bits of the Palestine article by Karmi?

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum · Oct 08, 2011

Flying Dutchman wrote:Dude, you realize lately you mention me on average more than once in almost very post. If you wouldn't know better I'd say you are obsessed. Its creepy nonetheless.

Be afraid FD, be very afraid :evil:

Fat boy's on your case.

event horizon · Oct 09, 2011

shafique wrote:I asked you what was not factual about Karmi's statements - you've come back with questions which seem to relate to your peculiar interpretation (i.e. spin) on what Karmi wrote.

Karmi wrote:But one would like to ask in this connection where does this division of the world’s peoples into Evil and Good come from? The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This [Jewish] doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

shafique · Oct 09, 2011

shafique wrote:The entire point is that FD misrepresented a quote from Karmi criticising Segregationism and presented it as evidence of anti-semitism. He left out the starting sentence of the paragraph he quoted WITHOUT reference.

shafique wrote:Inserting [Jewish] into the quote above doesn't change the fact that Karmi is talking about Segregationism, and I agree with him on this.

He rightly says that one of the earliest sources of segregationism in the area (note that the article is about Palestine) is from the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity.

Is this not factual? If not, in what way is not factual - does dividing humanity into two not make the doctrine segregationist? Or is the doctrine not one of the first in the region?

Today, segregationism has indeed gripped the world - Karmi gives examples in the article.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 09, 2011

So the world is in the grip of Jewish doctrine?

I'm curious, how isn't this an Antisemitic belief?

I'm fascinated to know if preventing non-Muslims from stepping foot inside two otherwise normal cities is by definition segregationist.

shafique · Oct 09, 2011

The world is in the grip of Segregationism, yes, and Karmi gives examples of this.

Inserting [Jewish] into the quote above doesn't change the fact that Karmi is talking about Segregationism, and I agree with him on this.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 09, 2011

But one would like to ask in this connection where does this division of the world’s peoples into Evil and Good come from? The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

Nice try.

I guess this explains why you read the strangest meanings into the verses of the Koran.

The doctrine Karmi is saying has the world in its grip is the Jewish doctrine he claims is segregationist.

Now, about your backlog of questions you're avoiding - is it segregationist to prevent non-Muslims from entering two normal functioning cities Muslims are not restricted from entering?

shafique · Oct 09, 2011

You've put the horse before the cart, eh.

FD misquoted Karmi by cutting out the sentence about Segregationism, and you're trying to have a second go by looking at another paragraph. But here too, the subject is segregationism - and he rightly points out that dividing humanity into two groups is segregationist.

If you read the article, you'll see that the segregationist examples he gives shows that he's not only talking about the segregationist Israeli policies.

As for Islam, I've said a few times that I do agree with Karmi's summing up of Islam - that it is not segregationist.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 09, 2011

But here too, the subject is segregationism - and he rightly points out that dividing humanity into two groups is segregationist.

No, "this doctrine" is referring to the "Jewish doctrine" Karmi was talking about in the previous sentence.

The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

This is basic reading comprehension you're failing at.

I would be surprised that someone who claims to read English would be so bad at understanding the written word but you have a history of distorting what other members write, so your failure to read here is not surprising.

As for Islam, I've said a few times that I do agree with Karmi's summing up of Islam - that it is not segregationist.

So is segregating non-Muslims from two cities Muslims freely enter segregationist or not?

Perhaps Islam's segregationist policy prohibiting non-Muslims from entering two cities explains the discriminatory policies of a number of Muslim majority states?

shafique · Oct 09, 2011

Your wishful thinking and snippets won't disguise the fact that FD's misleading quote comes from an article about segregationism - and which focuses on Palestine.

When you read the whole paragraph, and especially when you read the whole article, you see why FD didn't give a reference when he deceitfully misquoted Karmi.

Projecting your failure to acknowledge Karmi is talking about Segregationism as somehow my failure to read it as you wish is funny.

But I'm glad that you've not attempted to defend FD's misquote (which you parotted in this thread).

I agree with Karmi's quotes - segregationism is bad and Islam's teachings do not allow for segregationism:

Islam is unitive and calls for unity, rejects discrimination, especially racism and rejects hegemony on the strength of wealth or power. The Muslim and even the human society as a whole should live as one interrelated society in accordance with the five principles of Islam, namely Unitarianism, egalitarianism, symmetrical recognition, social justice, and universal justice, and should serve as a cardinal law among nations. The case now is different, and that is why Islam is different.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 10, 2011

No one disputes you're great at avoiding actual points made.

I guess repeating yourself without addressing what's been repeatedly said is all you're left to at this point.

We have a quote from a Muslim Antisemite:

The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

Seems like pure Antisemitism to me.

shafique · Oct 10, 2011

You were also convinced that FD's misleading quote was evidence of anti-semitism.

When the full quote was produced and the deceit exposed, you changed your tune and looked for another quote to selectively quote.

Karmi is stating that a doctrine that splits humanity in two is segregationist, in a paragraph about segregationism. Your desperate attempts at spinning it aren't working.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 10, 2011

Karmi is stating that a doctrine that splits humanity in two is segregationist

Karmi's inability to show a direct link between X and Y notwithstanding, my quote from Karmi has nothing to do with your strawman but with his Antisemitic belief that the world is in the grip of Jewish doctrine.

shafique · Oct 10, 2011

The inability is not on the part of Karmi - he has quite ably stated that splitting humanity in two is segregationist. I agree with him.

He says the world is in the grip of the doctrine of 'Segregationism' and doesn't say the world is in the grip of a 'Jewish doctrine' - no matter how much you wish he wrote this. He clarifies this in the examples he gives after the paragraph you're trying to spin by selectively quoting.

Spin is still failing young one.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 10, 2011

He says the world is in the grip of the doctrine of 'Segregationism' and doesn't say the world is in the grip of a 'Jewish doctrine'

Try again:

The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

shafique · Oct 10, 2011

Here's my reply to FD when I uncovered his deceit. The full article is linked.

shafique wrote:I think I found the quote, it is from 'How Holy is Palestine':

http://www.isesco.org.ma/english/public ... ne/CH1.php

Reading through, I really can't see why you think stating that historically the facts about segregation speak for themselves. I mean 100,000 Israelis took the streets to protest in FAVOUR of segregation along racial lines in a girls school, and this week Haaretz is talking about Jewish-apartheid roads.

You're seeing anti-semitism where there isn't any, and yet you portrayed the extract you produced as indicative of him 'blaming Jews' for most of the problems in the world.

Oh dear.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 10, 2011

What isn't Antisemitic about claiming a Jewish doctrine has imprisoned the world in its grip?

The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

Btw, is prohibiting non-Muslims from two cities Muslims can freely enter segregationist?

shafique · Oct 10, 2011

Read the whole article again eh. Then read the bit I highlighted in red my post above.

If you do, you'll see why FD had to misquote his snippet, and why you're snippet is failing just as badly at showing the article was anti-semitic.

And it is worth noting, that you refused to link to the thread where FD first posted his snippet, and that neither you nor FD have an answer to the thread showing Karmi was not anti-semitic:

shafique wrote:edit - eh, I now realise why you refuse to link to where FD initially quoted the snippet by Karni above. People would be able to follow the thread of the discussion which ended with this post which showed that Karmi wasn't an anti-semite (your reply to the information is most telling):
philosophy-dubai/hasan-karmi-anti-semite-t43065.html

For completeness, FD posted the snippet in a thread started by Berrin (not me) and in it embarrassingly posted a photo about a false accusation of a boy being amputated (turned out to be an easily discovered fake).
philosophy-dubai/islam-and-the-west-t43028-15.html#p345505

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 11, 2011

The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

How did "this doctrine" Karmi speaks above in the sentence before manage to imprison the world?

shafique · Oct 11, 2011

You didn't read the whole article did you?

If you had, perhaps you'd have quoted the full paragraph your snippet comes from.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 11, 2011

What part of claiming a Jewish doctrine has imprisoned the world is not Antisemitic?

shafique · Oct 11, 2011

If you read the article in full and quoted the paragraph in full, you'd know how silly your question is.

And it is worth noting, that you refused to link to the thread where FD first posted his snippet, and that neither you nor FD have an answer to the thread showing Karmi was not anti-semitic:

shafique wrote:edit - eh, I now realise why you refuse to link to where FD initially quoted the snippet by Karni above. People would be able to follow the thread of the discussion which ended with this post which showed that Karmi wasn't an anti-semite (your reply to the information is most telling):
philosophy-dubai/hasan-karmi-anti-semite-t43065.html

For completeness, FD posted the snippet in a thread started by Berrin (not me) and in it embarrassingly posted a photo about a false accusation of a boy being amputated (turned out to be an easily discovered fake).
philosophy-dubai/islam-and-the-west-t43028-15.html#p345505

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 11, 2011

Why are you refusing to address Karmi's claim that a Jewish doctrine has imprisoned the world in its grip?

shafique · Oct 11, 2011

How can I address something that you only imagine and isn't in the full quote, or in the full article? Karmi does not say the world is in the grip of a Jewish doctrine, but in the grip of segregationism. Therein lies your problem.

I HAVE addressed the fact that I agree with Karmi on segregationism and addressed head on the silly accusation that he's an anti-semite.

You still haven't addressed that thread:
philosophy-dubai/hasan-karmi-anti-semite-t43065.html

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 11, 2011

Karmi does not say the world is in the grip of a Jewish doctrine, but in the grip of segregationism. Therein lies your problem.

Yes he does, actually.

I'm amazed at your horrid reading comprehension.

The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

Do you need an English teacher to explain to you why the subject of the first sentence "Jewish Doctrine" is "this doctrine" in the next?

shafique · Oct 11, 2011

LOL - requoting your snippet won't change the fact that Karmi was talking about segregationism in that paragraph. Quote the paragraph in full (you have in the past) and you'll see.

But that's not the point is it? The main point is that I've tackled Karmi's supposed anti-semitism head on, and you have no answer:
philosophy-dubai/hasan-karmi-anti-semite-t43065.html

Did you not read the whole article? It makes very good points, and isn't anti-semitic.

Cheers,
Shafique

event horizon · Oct 11, 2011

shafique wrote:LOL - requoting your snippet won't change the fact that Karmi was talking about segregationism in that paragraph. Quote the paragraph in full (you have in the past) and you'll see.

You have serious reading comprehension problems.

The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

"This doctrine" = "Jewish doctrine"

shafique · Oct 11, 2011

I refer you to my previous comments, and consider your evasion to be an admission that you can't face the fact that you've failed to show Karmi's comments about segregationism are wrong or anti-semitic.

Even FD would be embarrassed by your continuing posting of an incomplete paragraph and ignoring of a whole thread on the subject.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bora Bora · Oct 11, 2011

shafique wrote:Even FD would be embarrassed by your continuing posting of an incomplete paragraph and ignoring of a whole thread on the subject.

If he were to be embarrassed by EH's style, then he would have to be embarrassed by his own style as well. Without a name attached to some posts it's hard to tell if it's EH or FD.

event horizon · Oct 11, 2011

Basic reading comprehension is an embarrassing skill to have.

The first source that comes to one’s mind is the Jewish doctrine that divides humanity into those who are Chosen and those who are Gentiles. This doctrine seems to have imprisoned the world in its grip.

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