Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

DDS, I'm well aware that Muslim women around the world can wear other colours besides black. I've seen Muslims in the Middle East, Europe, Asia and North America.

And you are wrong that some Western countries don't have laws about covering faces in a crowd. Just because Canada doesn't have one yet doesn't mean it won't. I would fully support a ban on face coverings in crowds, because the trend has been seen that the ones wearing the face masks in protesting crowds tend to be the ones who become violent and destroy property and loot shops.

Shaf posted a quote from a veiled woman who says it liberates her from men se.xualising her femininity. Is she lying DDS? We've already had discussions on this forum when Muslim men have concluded that men can't control themselves and if women show too much skin they are at risk of being raped for putting all of their body on display. As Mona Eltahawy pointed out, if women are raised from childhood to think that god will punish them for not covering up, do you think it feels like much of a choice to them? It doesn't seem to matter that the Quran doesn't say that women must wear the veil.

Nucleus, bearded men wearing caps can still be handsome. I found quite a few men wearing dishdashas good looking (though short ), even if I couldn't see the exact shape of all their body parts underneath. None of those forms of dress for men can compare to a woman being draped in a sheet (be it black, grey, blue etc.) with her eyes peeking out. As I mentioned before, I can't even tell you how many times I've seen women completely covered while their husband is wearing shorts, t-shirt and baseball cap. It is a glaring indication of a double standard about how men and women's bodies are viewed.

Shamoosa seems to be deciding about wearing the veil. Her main motivation is for sun protection outside, but she prefers to not wear the veil indoors. No mention of men or religion. Interesting! The funny thing is that other Muslim men and women will be looking at her and admiring her committment to god, her piety, and the honour she brings to her husband, father, and family by covering to the pinnacle of covering.

kanelli wrote: We've already had discussions on this forum when Muslim men have concluded that men can't control themselves and if women show too much skin they are at risk of being raped for putting all of their body on display.

From my memory, I don't recall any man (Muslim or otherwise) here blaming women for being raped and making excuses for rapists - by saying that men CAN'T control themselves. Perhaps you're projecting a view that hasn't been expressed (that women are to blame for men who rape etc).

And I do hope you're not making the case that all Muslim men think that men can't control themselves and force Muslim women to cover up.

And even if it was the case, why do you think that is why the women want to wear a hijab and a veil, rather than the reasons they give? The Guardian article states that wearing modest clothing for her is to make her less of a s.exual object and more of a person - which I think is more of a indictment of how women are viewed now-a-days rather than the hijab itself.

(Shamoosa is a wind-up, shurely )

Cheers,
Shafique

Leaving one's wallet out in public encourages the money to be stolen, so a woman who puts all of her body on display in public should also expect for it to be stolen too. Sound familiar?

I certainly hope that men think they can control themselves. I've met tons of decent men who don't harass women. Still, it is puzzling that when women give the reason for covering as protecting themselves from being se.xualized and harassed by men, who by their nature are driven by their stronger se.xuality, it is fully supported by the men. "Good women cover up." So I can only conclude that they agree (while they enjoy their t-shirts and shorts).

If married women who are raped are jailed for infidelity, isn't that blaming the rape on the woman? If a girl is married off to her violent rapist, isn't that blaming the woman for the rape? If she isn't being blamed, why is she being punished?

--- Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:32 pm ---

If I'm wearing a summer dress that goes to the knees and even has spaghetti straps, I'm just as much of a person as if I was to wear an abaya and hijab. In fact, Western men wouldn't drool over me and disrespect me because of the sundress. I'd get negative attention from Western men (and women) if my sundress was just below my butt-cheeks with a plunging neckline. Now if I was to wear the first mentioned version of the sundress in the middle of a crowd in the Middle East? Different story isn't it.

kanelli wrote:Leaving one's wallet out in public encourages the money to be stolen, so a woman who puts all of her body on display in public should also expect for it to be stolen too. Sound familiar?

Just to make it clear that is your interpretation, not mine.

Hey guys clothes is not measurement for belief. You can be fully covered and watch pornos for example....or backbiting or anything bad. Ihsan is something between us and God. To be pious when people are not able to see you.

I don't think that we are obligated to cover face. In Qur'an that obligation is for women of Prophet Muhammed, peace been upon him.

Yet if I know it is obligation for me I will strugle to put it even if that mean that I will do sports in it ( some guys wear masks for better performance, so it will just be good challenge for me). But why to over-do something when life is easier like this.
But as I said before the skin of face is really reason that I would wear niqab outside. And that is the reason that most of Gulf women wear it traditionaly. My local friends unveil as well when they are in restaurants or indoor.

Now if anyone force me to wear niqab I would never put it, and also if anyone force me to take it off if I put it then I would never do it. Just mind your own business, I know how to deal with those who might get hot if I am uncovered as well with those who would dare to put hand on my hijab/niqab.

Now why girls walk naked in Dubai is not big secret. Everyone is hoping to catch some rich shaikh....so people do not get excited when you see them....they are not like that because of you. Just lower your gaze and pray that locals have more sons who would pick up those poor girls so that you ordinary guys are not in trouble and fitnah: D

kanell wrote:Leaving one's wallet out in public encourages the money to be stolen, so a woman who puts all of her body on display in public should also expect for it to be stolen too. Sound familiar?

I still don't remember anyone here blaming women for being raped or excusing the rapists. In the analogy the person who said it (was it Berrin?) would have to say that the theif wasn't at fault or that theft is ok. I don't recall him saying that. A theif is still a theif, and theft is still a crime.

I also don't recall anyone here saying they agreed with rape victims being victimised or jailed either.

kanelli wrote:If I'm wearing a summer dress that goes to the knees and even has spaghetti straps, I'm just as much of a person as if I was to wear an abaya and hijab.

Agreed. And a person choosing to wear a veil in Europe is as much a person as anyone choosing to wear a summer dress. That's our argument. Your's is that the lady choosing to cover up is somehow 'invisible' - and eh's is that she's 'dehumanised'.

Someone wearing what Dave Chappelle calls the 'whore's uniform' is sending out a particular message. Someone wearing a veil is sending out another message. But both are still persons.

I'm simply not agreeing with you that covering up your nose and mouth should be a criminal offence. I don't agree with your logic for wanting it criminalised or indeed why you are opposed to women choosing to cover up to this extent.

Cheers,

Shafique

This is my country. Shocking for others but normal for us. No males jump on any....pious guys lower their gaze, the others stare.... It is easy to be religious in ME. The challenge is to be pious in Sarajevo

Btw guys go visit Sarajevo it is cheap
http://Www.bosniatravels.com

shafique wrote: In the analogy the person who said it (was it Berrin?) would have to say that the theif wasn't at fault or that theft is ok.

It was me and I didn't say it encourages I said it is better to be careful. There is a difference between encouraging and careful, K totally changed the meaning. The two examples I have given should have cleared any doubts what I meant, Dubai were there better rule of law, safety is not much an issue as opposed to places like congo. It was not they way K is reinterpreting it. US, congo and some other places have highest rate of sexual violence in the world, little common sense to be careful not sure how that can be misinterpreted. And it is not just about the hijab, care is not just limited to hijab, most rapes in US happen when people are drunk. And then their are stalkers, it is common sense to be careful. Nobody blamed the victim here on this forum.

Thanks for clarifying Nucleus that you were not blaming the victims. That is how I read it as well.

Many studies also show that the majority of rapes around the world aren't reported, and that many (if not the the majority) are committed by men known to the woman - typically male friends, boy friends or even spousal rape. Alcohol plays a major part in violence against women in most parts of the world. Cultural issues are also a factor in many parts of the world and shouldn't be minimised - be it in Asia, Latin America, Arab countries or Africa.

Criminalising the few women who choose to cover their mouth and nose in public in the West seems to me to be missing the wood for the (small and few) trees.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shamoosa ,Girls dress skimpily because they're gold diggers? Come on, you don't seriously believe that!

Who said anuthing about gold lol ask girls, if yoi don't believe me.

Shamoosa , I am a girl and certainly neither I nor any of my friends or people we know are like that. The way someone dresses very rarely has anything to do with money grabbing. 'Gold-digging' is a term for someone who is after a man for his cash.

Your problem if you understand that running after shaikhs is because of their cash..... It is not all like that. There is something in fame, pride, style of life, position, achivements of vilage girls....

You can see many really beautifill girls, they are working, indenpendent and yetthey refuse everyone hoping one day prince will come....so they became old, frustrated and negative energy holders. Just run away....

And those fake blonde...O God....
Did you ever observed their stances, lips, moves. It seems they get pain after hours of acting outside....Why they think any blond hair and fair skin and Arabs will fall down ha ha ha

Yet there is also something phenomenal about some specific races as my own. After war many girl decided to many Arabs even that was not habbit before, just because few Arabs came and showed their manhood, ability to protect women, where local people sometimes failed....

It is much deeper then money.... Girls like security and loyality. If they don't find it in their countries because their boys drink, use drugs, change girls every night etc. They will come in conservative comunity hoping to get man for themselves.

To achieve that goal they will use all what they have, and in all ways they can... Observe deeply if tou don't believe me. When you got old as me and so expirienced then you will see how fake this world is.

http://www.rainn.org/get-information/st ... -offenders So in the US, 73% of se.xual assaults are perpetrated by non-strangers. Based on what the research says, RAINN gives the following recommendation to help women avoid being in a dangerous situation,

RAINN wrote:AVOIDING DANGEROUS SITUATIONS

Be aware of your surroundings. Knowing where you are and who is around you may help you to find a way to get out of a bad situation.

Try to avoid isolated areas. It is more difficult to get help if no one is around.

Walk with purpose. Even if you don't know where you are going, act like you do.

Trust your instincts. If a situation or location feels unsafe or uncomfortable, it probably isn't the best place to be.

Try not to load yourself down with packages or bags as this can make you appear more vulnerable.Make sure your cell phone is with you and charged and that you have cab money.

Don't allow yourself to be isolated with someone you don't trust or someone you don't know.Avoid putting music headphones in both ears so that you can be more aware of your surroundings, especially if you are walking alone.

IN A SOCIAL SITUATION

When you go to a social gathering, go with a group of friends. Arrive together, check in with each other throughout the evening, and leave together. Knowing where you are and who is around you may help you to find a way out of a bad situation.

Trust your instincts. If you feel unsafe in any situation, go with your gut. If you see something suspicious, contact law enforcement immediately (local authorities can be reached by calling 911 in most areas of the U.S.).

Don't leave your drink unattended while talking, dancing, using the restroom, or making a phone call. If you've left your drink alone, just get a new one.

Don't accept drinks from people you don't know or trust. If you choose to accept a drink, go with the person to the bar to order it, watch it being poured, and carry it yourself. At parties, don't drink from the punch bowls or other large, common open containers.

Watch out for your friends, and vice versa. If a friend seems out of it, is way too intoxicated for the amount of alcohol they've had, or is acting out of character, get him or her to a safe place immediately.

If you suspect you or a friend has been drugged, contact law enforcement immediately (local authorities can be reached by calling 911 in most areas of the U.S.). Be explicit with doctors so they can give you the correct tests (you will need a urine test and possibly others).

Why didn't they mention that women should not wear skimpy clothing? Because the research studies have shown that it isn't a causing factor. Either the woman was already a chosen target by someone she knows (majority of cases), or she was targeted by an attacker because she was female and in the right place at the right time. Appearing lost or physically vulnerable are more important factors than what a woman wears.

So much for the theory that a woman showing too much skin in public puts her at a higher risk of being raped.

^Kanelli, that list actually strengthens the case in favour of the women choosing to dress modestly in public.

Instead of 'muslim woman in hijab' think 'nun in habit'. Nuns may get raped - but it is not a common occurence and is shocking when it takes place. It is not just because a nun wears a habit that she is less likely to be raped - it is down to her choice of behaviour and the situations she puts herself in, and her clear message to people that she is not s.exually available.

Remember that Islam does not prohibit s.exy or skimpy clothing at all. All it says is that this should be for private consumption.

If the 73% of women who are s.exually assaulted by men known to them were wearing the hijab, or a nun's habit, I totally agree they would still have been s.exually assaulted. The guidelines about watching your drinks, socialising in groups etc point to where the actual dangers of s.exual assaults from male acquaintances actually stem from.

The hijab (and veil and nun's habit) are therefore NOT primarily to stop a woman from being s.exually assaulted. They do signal that the woman does not want to be seen as a s.exual object, but it will be the social behaviour, environment and company which will be the main factor whether a woman is more at risk of being assaulted or not.

You seem to be working on the assumption that it is primarily or even mainly about avoiding s.exual harrassment from men who can't otherwise control themselves. I think this is flawed thinking. Hijab or not, women and men following Islamic principles can avoid many of situations where these assaults take place - the principle one being Alcohol related assaults, then the social environment - whether one is alone, in a group, lost etc.

Cheers,

Shafique

Ironic ? Like Nuc said, first the veil then the hijab. But some people can't seem to see the bigger picture.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... untry.html

shafique wrote:The guidelines about watching your drinks, socialising in groups etc point to where the actual dangers of s.exual assaults from male acquaintances actually stem from.

The hijab (and veil and nun's habit) are therefore NOT primarily to stop a woman from being s.exually assaulted. They do signal that the woman does not want to be seen as a s.exual object, but it will be the social behaviour, environment and company which will be the main factor whether a woman is more at risk of being assaulted or not.

You seem to be working on the assumption that it is primarily or even mainly about avoiding s.exual harrassment from men who can't otherwise control themselves. I think this is flawed thinking. Hijab or not, women and men following Islamic principles can avoid many of situations where these assaults take place - the principle one being Alcohol related assaults, then the social environment - whether one is alone, in a group, lost etc.

Ditto. Very clearly articulated!

Ignore the DM, they love to write garbage like that.

--- Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:16 am ---

Shamoosa , My problem? er YOU were the one who stated women dress a certain way to attract rich men. I don't believe that happens very much at all. You see to have a bit of an issue with the way some people dress for some reason.

In UAE yes, they wear with purpose.

I am against half naked or almost naked wearings because it caused more problems in the world then just raping of women.
Males stopped to feel attraction by female body, they switched of ti teens, even to kids. They became pedophils.... After so much nudity on TV, internet, after pornos...they don't like females anymore, they started to like kids or even males....

In centuries when they were dreaming about female's body they wrote poems, they dreamd, imagined.... And now??? Can't you see how unsafe world became for new generations???

Can't you see that even if you are walking almost naked no one cares anymore?? It is not interesting except for few who like to change girls whenever they can.

If you feel that everyone want to be with you because you look sexy then ask yourself till when?? I ask myself as well, even I cover I can't be sure till when I can keep male today....

If we just can look more then one decade or two...if we can see impact we make on new generations of children and teens, if we can see far to know what we are causing with our careless behaviours then we would sitt and cry....

But we are not watching so far because we are epicentar of worlds for ourselves....we don't see further then our noses.... If I am safe, if I can care about myself I do not care. Yet all people cannot care as we can. Many kids does not have parents even to care about them, so many girls does not have anyone to protect them....

Today, there remain more slaves then ever before - en estimated 27 million people. Half of tbose are children.

Human trafficking is one of the largest global organized crimes today, generating 20 billion pounds per year. MORE THEN NIKE, GOOGLE AND STARBUCKS COMBINED.

Why we didn't have such sexual slavery before sexual revolution?????

All it started with our rights to be civilized but look as domorods.... And what we can do now?
Almost nothing....

Really what can we do for 27 million slaves??? We just have to focus to do not became one of them....how? I don't know. God help those victims and God help us, God help everyone

So I hope that you see now even positivity in those girls who wear so just to catch a man even for his money or for himself.... Tbe problem is in those mind who wear like that with no reason, with no goal, just like that, don't knowing where are they going, what is their purpose, why they behave in ways they do. Is that just imitation of TV stars....if only they wear so to be IN then they are already brainwashed by TV and comercials....which are, I believe, in service of the largest global organised crimes today, beside internet....

God help us to find our purposes and keep our brains untouched and our bodies unslaved and our new generations secure, ameen

--- Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:22 am ---

In UAE yes, they wear with purpose.

I am against half naked or almost naked wearings because it caused more problems in the world then just raping of women.
Males stopped to feel attraction by female body, they switched of ti teens, even to kids. They became pedophils.... After so much nudity on TV, internet, after pornos...they don't like females anymore, they started to like kids or even males....

In centuries when they were dreaming about female's body they wrote poems, they dreamd, imagined.... And now??? Can't you see how unsafe world became for new generations???

Can't you see that even if you are walking almost naked no one cares anymore?? It is not interesting except for few who like to change girls whenever they can.

If you feel that everyone want to be with you because you look sexy then ask yourself till when?? I ask myself as well, even I cover I can't be sure till when I can keep male today....

If we just can look more then one decade or two...if we can see impact we make on new generations of children and teens, if we can see far to know what we are causing with our careless behaviours then we would sitt and cry....

But we are not watching so far because we are epicentar of worlds for ourselves....we don't see further then our noses.... If I am safe, if I can care about myself I do not care. Yet all people cannot care as we can. Many kids does not have parents even to care about them, so many girls does not have anyone to protect them....

Today, there remain more slaves then ever before - en estimated 27 million people. Half of tbose are children.

Human trafficking is one of the largest global organized crimes today, generating 20 billion pounds per year. MORE THEN NIKE, GOOGLE AND STARBUCKS COMBINED.

Why we didn't have such sexual slavery before sexual revolution?????

All it started with our rights to be civilized but look as domorods.... And what we can do now?
Almost nothing....

Really what can we do for 27 million slaves??? We just have to focus to do not became one of them....how? I don't know. God help those victims and God help us, God help everyone

So I hope that you see now even positivity in those girls who wear so just to catch a man even for his money or for himself.... Tbe problem is in those mind who wear like that with no reason, with no goal, just like that, don't knowing where are they going, what is their purpose, why they behave in ways they do. Is that just imitation of TV stars....if only they wear so to be IN then they are already brainwashed by TV and comercials....which are, I believe, in service of the largest global organised crimes today, beside internet....

God help us to find our purposes and keep our brains untouched and our bodies unslaved and our new generations secure, ameen

Shamoosa , I'm sorry but you are talking utter rubbish! Women wearing skimpy clothes does NOT give men an excuse to rape them, nor does it turn men into peadophiles! These people are mentally sick in the first place. That kind of attitude absolves people from being responsible for their own actions. As far as I'm concerend it's a very VERY dangerous attitude to have.

The human body is NOTHING to be ashamed of, it's the most natural thing in the world. Sure there's a time and a place to show it off and people do need to be respectful in certain environments, but to say showing flesh makes men uncontrollable is beyond ridiculous.

I think you have a very skewed and judgmental view of people.

Of course no one gives males any excuses but year by year they are wilder, worst, more bruttal, careless, irresponsible .....

Such killing in the world, such human trafficking, selling of human organs, eating fetuses.... Do you think in such world woman should be careless about her mind, body, her fetuses!, her children...or even children of himanity if not her own??

More nudity, more abotuses, more fetus selling, more money making by doctors, more greedy, more organ sellings, which causes more kidnapping, more killing, more trafficking....

--- Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:39 pm ---

Women are main instrument in creating sucessfull criminal and slavery environment. By their own will or by brain-washing socciety.

--- Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:31 pm ---

In my opinion what does woman have with sick people.... Nothing! Yes they are sick...what I am talking about is WHY THERE IS MORE AND MORE SICK PEOPLE by years....

How I see woman as instrument, even that is not her fault what psychotic people do....

When natural beautifull teen became victim of trafficking just because she looks a like some celebrity and with a little make up her kidnappers can earn tons of money selling her to sick people who watched celebrity and are never able to get her....

Or when some child became raped because some sick man watched pornos which some celebrities have make willingly....

And when we females copy celebrities in our lifes and send messages to our brothers, sons, cousines that that is natural, OK...

And when normal guys watch pornos and starts to see also children porns on that dirty sites...do you think they will limit themselves just to adult pornos? Do you really think that only psychopats watch childporn..... There are so manny managers, even corps, even FBI workers captured for that....there are just ordinary guys that you see everyday and don't have idea what are they doing...

Yet see, I don't say it is women's fault all of that...but women have been instumentalised to make that all closer to ordinary people, to make more people sick, to make crminal normal, to make young boys think that is OK to rape if woman is almost naked.... Media makes them think so by making such movies, pornos etc where woman always makes main role...

Don't you as woman think that is not women's business males behaviour? Those males were once boys, kids....where was woman to teach them??? She was busy copying celebrities and her boys were left to be brainwashed by media...boys didn't see anything wrong in media life and behaviour as their mother was the same. So our bodies are natural....nothing to be ashamed of and nothing to hide and keep only for loved once or for non sick people?

Would you be happy knowing that same rapist is watching your legs, or some pedophil...or it does not matter till he does not bother you?

If woman is epicentar for herself then everything does not matter. But if woman makes humanity, socciety, family her epi center then everything matters.

Yeah we are not responisble for male's behaviours, but we are responsible for our son's behaviours...and yet as I sad every that kiddnapper, killer, rapist, criminal has a mother....

Some does does not have mothers!! Yeah...because their mothers got them as teenagers and left them on the street....maybe....maybe....

As woman I feel responsible...I don't say I feel guilty....just responsible for whatever happend in world....

Maybe that does not have anything with other women.....yeah maybe in me is mistake I should rest and polish my nails....because that is life.... And show my legs to show that I am alive and have free will....yes, yes....I should do it just for me, I should enjoy myself, brain is just for work, and I can leave it in office. Why to bother myself and my kids with anything when we can live free as celebrities live. God bless life....

Ah ummah, ummah.....

So women who don't wear "religious" clothing like abayas and hijab or burka, or nun's habits, are all saying to the men in the world that they are se.xually available? Let me tell you straight - A woman is se.xually available when she consents to a partner that she wishes to have s.ex. Simply being female in public, and not wearing religious clothing does not indicate availability and consent for se.x.

Why can't women go to parties or a night club with friends and have a good time socializing and dancing? I completely agree that drinking too much and being alone with a man is a risky situation because the woman becomes vulnerable. It still comes down to the man deciding before he goes out that he's going to have s.ex that night, and picking off his target of a very drunk woman or a woman he purposely got drunk or high from a spiked drink. It isn't right! Men who choose to be predators are the problem.

It is a serious overreaction to require 50% of the population to shroud themselves in cloth, be segregated from men, go out in public with an escort, not be allowed to drive a car etc. just to protect a woman's "honour". Even these highly protected women still experience rape from family members or friends of family, and strangers for those who dared to walk alone without an escort. And do you think these women will report their rapes? What woman would want to, because no man will have her for his wife if his genitals haven't been the first to meet hers. She's worth nothing if she isn't "pure". Women can be punished, killed, jailed, or married off to their violent rapists - which is essentially blaming or punishing them for their own rape.

There isn't much more I can say, except that I hope that some people will reconsider their biases. Do some reading on why men rape and look at the statistics and profiles of rapists and you'll see it isn't just about se.x, it is primarily about dominance, control, violence, and anger towards women and children.

Kanelli I agree with you. Clothes is not measure for anything as I said before. Woman can be sexy even when covered...there are always gestures, voice, eyes.....

We should not overdo in anything and we should think globaly, and care about others not only about ourselves.

Agry with you....fanatics among religious people are dangerous same as criminals for woman. If tjey close her, trait her as property and abuse her then there is just another side ofusing woman as an instrument by her own will. If she makes sabur, patience in such situations then she is not better then velebrities who send to boys messages that is ok to be used by males.

Mothers who let their sons lern from abusive fathers behaviour are also bad example.

so females really can do a lot. Just they think is non of their business anything but to be pretty and ruled by males, their woshes, orders etc. If one is naked on TV because males wants so, and other is is tolerating terror as her male pleases so then for me both are sending same message to males.

Balance and middle way, harmony and free will is something we must stand for. Btw I am feminist in my own way. Feminist who love females and thinks that we can change the world if we just became responsible with rights that we have.

You have a funny way of expressing that! Many of your views, quite frankly are anti-feminist and put women's rights back by decades!

Shamoosa has clearly done no reading on se.x abuse of children and women.

I hope she isn't saying that women are the instrument of moral decay in society!

"...be responsible with the rights we have." So does that mean happily live within the rights the men-folk have given you and don't push for change?

Interesting discussion ladies..

Cheers,
Shafique

What happened to 'live, and let live'?

Guys I come from the country where more then 25 000 women were raped in last war JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVE MUSLIM NAMES!!!

And you tell me to read about raping.....I know it from life. Males in my country were raping females (girls from 4 to 90) to destroy whole family psychologically, they raped them in front of sons, fathers, husbands, neighbiures....
Woman is used again by Army to kill dignity, to kill pride, to stop natality...those women rarely will marry again and have sex with any male or have a kids etc etc.

So as I said women are used by males willingly or agressively and we have to stop that. We females. We can rule the world just if we stop males to rule us and use us in ways that are against our nature and fitrah.

It is shame that some females call themselves feminists and they don't care about kidnapped girls, about raped women, about tortured females worldwide....

Only when woman think globaly, when put comunity and family as priority, not her own nails, when she stopes blindly to obey males and follow their desires...then we can hope for better world. Without women wars will never stop, without right women criminal will never end, without real women trafficking and kidnapping will never stop....

Yet how to get such women from brain-washed generation of women who are center of Universum for themselves, and if it is good to them then does not matter what is going on around, when they are safe, then does not matter if boy of their first neigbour will fall in trouble, if girl of their friend will start to use drugs....nothing is their concern...they are happy with their bag and shoes brands, they are totaly in fashion world and there is no other world in their brain.

I hope one day someone will make fashion for raped women, fashion for women under war and bombings, fashion for kidnapped girls.... Maybe world will realise that they exist and will fight for THEIR RIGHTS claiming that rifgts exist already for decades or centuries :p

Shamoosa wrote:It is shame that some females call themselves feminists and they don't care about kidnapped girls, about raped women, about tortured females worldwide....

Yes they do care. In my opinion, men should be caring a lot more and taking more action about kidnap, rape and torture of females worldwide.

You claim to be a feminist but constantly make negative comments about women, now talking about their selfishness and focus on fashion instead of on other more important concerns. Aren't you the person who just asked about part-time veil wearing, as you want to wear the veil outdoors simply to keep your skin fair?

Shamoosa, would how a woman dresses have an impact on who gets raped during war? Women living in warzones are raped in high numbers for reasons you mentioned, as well the fact that the men know they can get away with it. They can show their violence and hatred of the enemies' females and children. That still doesn't mean that you are familiar with rape stats and data on rapists in non-war settings - as is seen in the comments you have made earlier where you seem to imply that women are the instrument.

Are most of the world's women not the "right women" because some men continue to abuse the more vulnerable portion of the population (women and children)?

I can't help but think this all must be a wind-up.

In the contrary guys you should all visit my country... There is still most tolerant nation living..... Bosniaks....

I love females. That does not mean that I will close eyes on our fails.... Why should we put ourselves as priority if there is any woman on the world who should be our feminist priority. For me is nonsense to fight for biger sellery, for longer payyed holidays etc when there are females that are not FREE. Freedom is the bigest right any humanbeing should have....then peace....

Yet when I say this girls come to say we had that rights of freedom centuries ago or decades.... For me does not matter if we had it if there are still modern slaves...does not matter if sexual or physical slaves as workers without sellery or property...


Males do rape even to show to other males their "superiority"... In all ways females are just used as instruments. That is something what can change if just all women want so. Every man has mother or sister or friend or cousine, or aunt or teacher.... If we all care and take a step to change the world.... If we just leave our nails for a while...

Yet boys be sure I love nail of any woman more then you: p if you can't understand me your problem. Love is not blindly stay in one side. Love is constant wishing for prosperity and development of side we stand by.

If you didn't wach movie from my land which is made by Angelina Joly in Abu Dhabi or Dubai's cinemas then you can see it here....IT IS IN ENGLISH and its title means IN THE LAND OF BLOOD AND HONEY http://domacifilmovi.info/videos/u-zeml ... -meda-2011

Believe me you should visit my country....to see the spirit of people who survived and still are tolerant and never wish any bad to anyone. If you don't believe me ask Angelina ha ha ask anyone who knows Bosnia well....