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Warm up car engine when cold?


ineedacoolnick Some people say you don't need to in this country, but does it matter if you warm up the engine or not? Thanks.
XRW-147 New cars are designed to be driven from the turn of the key. Keep revs below 3k rpm until you reach normal operating temps. You are actually doing damage to the engine by letting it sit there and idle until normal operating temps. arniegang The country is of no issue. This warming up thing stems from the days when you could only buy 1 type of oil. Nowadays with the advanced synthethic oils, warming up and running in, is irrelevant zam yep only if the car is quite old it would need some rrrrrevolution :lol: Salman_20VT Well i agree that some cars do not need to warm up, as temperatures are hot..it would ease the engine with the normal temperature of 90'C....but it is always recommended that regardless of car type, you should always wait at least for a minute after you start your engine! Many of you who own a German or a Eurpean car would've noticed that for the first minute...the engine revolutions are above 1000 per minute! in most cases, and after a minute or two the revs go down to 900 - 960 per minutes as this is standard when the vehicle is stationary. According to technical point of view, it is always recommended that you wait for a minute after starting your engine because the combustion chamber in the cylinder is cool, and when the compression process takes place the spark plugs ignite the air-fuel mixture which eventually creates an explosion driving the cylinder down to the sump...so imagine if start your car and pull it in reverse than engege is D and blast of pushing your throttle down and the engine revs reach about 4000 to 5000 per minute!! this means the 4 stroke process (intake, compression, combustion and exhaust) takes place 4000 times a minute when the cylinder is cool!!!! this means that while combustion is taking place the the fuel is not burnt completely, and that leads to poor engine performance after few thousand kms!!! because the un-burnt fuel caused the carbon waste to built-up on the exhaust valves! which leads to the lack of proper sealing of the valves while compression takes place!! So that's why you might have been suggested to flush your engine by service people to clean it from the in side or you might have seen those performance boosting fluids which say: increase your horsepower blah blah..that's all idiotic! trust me! i'm into mechanical engineer. i can asure you! the horsepower CAN NOT be increase by any type of fluids! All these fluids do is that they clean the carbon reserves on the valves and around the cylinders and discard them thru the exhauset system!! Which helps the moving parts in the engine to revolve more quickly...whice we think that the horsepower is increased! So my friends, i know we all are busy people and hardly have time for anything...but at least we can spare a minute for our beloved cars! it won't do any harm if you wait for a minute after starting! Otherwise your engine would suffer from the consequeces mentioned above! That's my suggestion :) the rest is upto you guys cheers arniegang the reason why revs at idle at start when cold is to do with the automatic "choke" within the Carb. It increases the mix to aid "cold starting". When the engine is running the choke switches off. Salman_20VT You are right, i agree with you, the choke process enables your engine to warm up quicker than normal for the first few minutes, but don't quite agree on the point when you said ''more mix to aid'' technically there can not be increased amount of air-fuel mixture more than valve could undergo, even in the Honda's VTEC system where there is a possibility for enhancing air-fuel mixture but only on the high engine RPM, as you might be aware that the Cam-Shaft for VTEC engine's are very unique and the lobes are designed in such a way that when the engine is in the low RPM mode there's limited amount of air-fuel mixture for more mileage and smooth performance, but of higher RPM mode, valve open more and let more intake for air and fuel so there's more power boost. But the point is...whether or not the engine's choking process is warming up or not, but normally all the cars have a technique to warm up engine, now if you know how the cooling system works in and around the engine...you will notice that there isn't any pressure in the radiator when the engine is cold, if you've opened the cap. That is because the coolant travels around the passageways between the cylinders in the engine..by which the coolant absorbs the heat (but only when engine is hot i.e. 90'C) so when the engine is started early in the morning...in the choking process...the engine management system haults the cooling system to travel around the cylinders until the engine reaches around 70'C. After which the pressure in the radiator starts to increase.....that is why.....it is recommended for the first few minutes to wait for the engine to AT LEAST get 70'C...after which we can blast off.....if we're in so damn hurry :o ahamed yeah .. n as he said.. so use a thermometer .. hahaha ..lol .. good coverage on all the internals salman ! :D Salman_20VT lol :lol: well as long as thermostat gauge is present! we don't need thermometre :) Thanks ahmed, cars are my passion, I love cars, and i want every one to take care and love their cars! This is the only means of transportation which represents our identity! Cars are us :wink: cheers ahamed hmm .. so if you are simply .. cars cars and cars.. then may be we should get togather sometime.. recently a car bug bite me.. and since then i am only thinking car.. car.. & car.. racing cars.. super cars.. cars.. and cars.. so wat do you do .. do engine mods.. i would want you to meet my friend.. whose an excellent mechs with gear n engine tune up + body works. so wat r u round with.. share ur experience & creativity for cars.. welcome aboard

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Salman_20VT Sure! why not...anytime man! I just admire people who have love and respect for cars! It would be my pleasure ahmed! I am currently taking a break, just finished my A Levels in Commerce, and lots of other short-term courses, gonna join some good college soon. Maybe in Knowledge Village. My dream is to get famous in the world of Automobiles and contribute to these wonderful machines as much as i could! But unfortunetly there isn't any proper training centre for automotive engineering...which happens to be my favotire subject..I am a car freak! :lol: can't help it :D cheers :wink: ahamed Ok So wanna work on some cars. I have some odd cars for experiments & test runs & sometimes i pick up car modification jobs when i am in mood. So where do u stay ? ahamed no work around during ramadan, today is the first day and i miss smoking so badly.. geesh. . my head is paining .. cant wait for evening... ah am off now.. office close time XRW-147
Are you on speed? You think a drop of 40-60 revs is something alarming? Do a search of "dimwit" and copy and paste that - it'll be a more interesting read. sniper420
that was harsh XRW-147
When someone starts dribbling random 'advice' who's only substance is he's "into mechanical engineering" and proclaiming it to be gospel, what does one expect? Salman_20VT quote]
Are you on speed? You think a drop of 40-60 revs is something alarming? Do a search of "dimwit" and copy and paste that - it'll be a more interesting read.
a drop of 40 - 60RPM? where have i said that? you need to check your eyes mate, i said...when you start your car and go full throttle....the engine lacks desired amount of heat and results in more carbon wastage! which eventually built up carbon and your engine wear out after some time!
Hell i am on speed! you got any problem with that? :evil: i ain't forcing anyone to warm up their engines, its up to them!! what i wrote was to enlighten people of what could happen in the long run to your engine......as far as ''dimwit'' is concerned, man i don't need to copy and past ANYTHING!!!! maybe YOU do that all the time so you expect other people to do that too!
I am in to mechanical engineering! and i'm proud to say that! this my knowledge and if you don't have respect for other's knowledge, than you don't have any right to offend either!! Salman_20VT
Ok i'm not here to fight! if you don't want to warm up your engine, fine......and like i said before, i'm not forcing anyone, nor i consider my suggestion as Gospel! I thought people need to know a little bit about why they should warm up enignes...untill YOU butted in and start to act as if you are the ''king of the world'' just because you're a moderator doesn't mean you can abuse other people!
i'm not here for fights! please! Az3ar I vote yes and I strongly recommend warming up the engine for few minutes after the initial start up. When warming up an engine you are not only warming up the block but also you have to remember that the oil in the oil pan is cool no matter how hot it is outside. The oil needs to get to temperature to start lubricating parts properly, as we all know when oil is cool it does not lubricate as effectively as when its at the right temps. Also, When oil is cold or cool it does not reach every part of the engine from the first start (because oil is thicker when is cold). It takes the oil some time to get to every part of the engine and especially the head. Lubricating these parts evenly is what makes your engine live and last. I am not saying warm up the car for ten minutes but in Dubai I would say wait a minute or 2 then off you go. Sadly here in VA winter I wait 10 full minutes.
Salman_20VT Well said Az3ar! Yes you are right about the charecteristics of oil, so that is also one of the major reason you should warm up your engine! Its always good, and like I said, it won't do us any harm if we wait for couple of minutes after starting! Cheers on that :wink: Az3ar
I agree with you too. Good points sniper420
wel X you should have prvided ur point of view and exhibited ur dissent by showing how he was wrong........sorry found the thread helpful so i love variety of advices Salman_20VT I'm glad that you found this topic useful mate....warm up yer engine for a minute or two if possible :wink: cheers r3ay-alborsh i say yes because when you warm the car it will be stronger if you not warm it i think engine will be not strong Salman_20VT
good point r3ay alborsh! i'll elaborate on that, he means that if your engine is warm, the rotating part inside the engine will be lubricated well by the warm oil in the Sump. There for continues response from the Crank-shaft resulting in less energy wastage, therefore the engine performs better, as he mentioned in short :wink:
bravo 3laik! kalaam sah walla :wink: XRW-147
Snipes, my POV was already previously made.
Most new cars do not need warming up. Oil has come a long way since the 60s-90s where warming up an engine was ideal - there is a reason why you have different ratings 5-40, 10-30, 10-40, etc, etc. Pick the right oil blend and characteristics then there's no problem. Salman_20VT I agree that oil has come a long way in terms of compounds and durability! But not in the charecteristics mate! Oil still needs to come on a stable temperature of it to lubricate the con-rods etc in the crank-case. So if its Castrol of Helix, we still need to warm-up! What would cost you if you wait for a minute or two? It will however prove very good in the long run mate. think again :wink: XRW-147
Firstly, wouldn't touch either of those two oils with a ten foot pole. Castrol do make some good diff oil for LSDs but thats about it.
From your argument are you trying to make a point for warming up the oil, or warming up the engine? - two completely different things here.
Con rods and crank case is one thing but pistons (weaker) and cylinders need appropriate lubrication with load. Sitting the car still and letting it 'warm up' damages cylinder heads and walls. So anything longer than 30 seconds in a 'newer' car will in the long run cost you a rebuild. Salman_20VT I agree mate, good you mentioned that, yes oil is directly related to engine matey, won't go in details of oil types now :lol: but one thing, warming up engine will never cost you anything dear friend, short or in the long run! but if you don't warm up atleast for the first minute, than maybe yes! That is my very personal experience! Infact to be honest when i drive after warming my engine for about a minute or two, i feel that engine is very smooth! The datails are in my pervious posts matey which you misunderstood me, with out understanding my point of significance as to why we should warm up for the first minute! Remeber oil has to be warm in order to work properly lubricating between crank shafts and con rods, the four stroke process is another issue. Hope you'll understand.... cheers 8) sniper420
which car do u drive if u don t mind me asking Salman_20VT Why would i mind dude :wink: well i have SEAT Toledo(sibling to Bora, Octavia and A4) 2005 (bought brand-new) and SEAT Ibiza(sibling to Polo and Fabia) 2007 (just bought last month) drive them equally :lol: and my dad has a VW Passat 04...drive that too once or twice a week. :wink: hosrom_951 Any car, new or old, would require a warm up after sitting overnight. Thing is, it should NOT be warmed up at idle, in other words, you should drive it under light loads, and relatively moderate rpms. This ensures that the engine expands evenly, it also allows not just the engine and oil to reach operating tempreature, it allows the transmission, differential and brakes to reach the operating temp. as well. You should never warm up a car with more than 60% throttle, or exceed 4,000rpms, give or take, this is where you should consult the owner's manual to get the details. Salman_20VT I agree 1000%! If some people can not wait for a minute than atleast they could drive very smoothly and evenly make temps to desired operating level. Well said mate :wink: hosrom_951 It takes more than a minute for reaching operational temp. The water temp could rise quickly, just like what it is designed for (the thermostat), however, oil takes twice as long. In other words, if you drive for 6 minutes and the gauge in the car reads normal, you actually need an additional 6 minutes (12 in total) to get the oil up. Remember, the worse thing to do is to push hard/high load on cold engine......seals start to leak, bearings see more damage etc. Salman_20VT Well said, true :wink: Palkid7 well i read a study that said that the most common cause of engine problems is Failure to Warm the engine up completely before running it hard !!! Well according to expereince and recommendations from experts about this here is what i concluded: If u have like a long trip or a one that requires travelling with high speed, and accelerating quickly then u need to warm up the engine completley. In case u r going to go thru a busy street with signals and alot of stops and in low speed, then u can just go as u flip the key in ur car, yet u shoudn't be hard on the engine until it warms up to the optimal temp. of operation. Personally i do both, depending where I am and on the place/street i am going to !!! Nice topic to talk about !! Salman_20VT yup true mate, as hosrom said before if its slow easy city cruising than don't accel hard on engine s that will cause the sealing in the combustion chamder damage in the long run...so yeah is easy going city drive its okay (even thou not ideal) but okey to drive away smooth after couple of seconds of starting your engine. On the contrary mate, people here are normally not gentle to their cars :lol: they jus wanna accelerate faster and drive faster, even if they have to stop after a couple'a feets they'll apply sudden brakes...so considering the local nature of driving style of UAE i suggested to warm up engines for only about a minute, rest is upto you guys. hosrom_951 Driving in the city will definately require more time for the engine to warm up properly. You never asked you'reself why you're car's brakes, suspention, shifts (auto) and reaction feels awkward when cold, and feels fine when warm? Now you know.... Think of a cold car as you in the morning, when you just get out of bed, you need a shower, coffee/cancer sticks (cigarettes or whatever) and then you start waking up......the car is the exact same thing......think if your boss/wife/mother in law yelling at you when you just got out of bed in the morning....a real nightmare right? same goes for a cold engine under high load..... Salman_20VT 100% agree :wink: if only people could understand and follow it :( well said mate. Salman_20VT
Good to know you'll warm up your engine mate :wink: , you won't regret it ever, now about switching AC immediately? NO! not immediately, since the thermo fans would start after you've switched on your AC, your engine is already cold, and when the fans go on, it will take even longer to warm up the engine, But once the rising temp starts which is about 1 minute from the time of ignition, the temp would've reached to about 60-70'C byt than its okay to switch on your AC, because your engine will continue to warm up to 90'......engine shares 40% of the compressor load, so even that way its always recommended for your engine to atleast reach half the temp before switching your AC, technically it won't do any harm to your engine , but take an example of your self, say your sleeping and suddenly you are told to get off your bed and start running!! Think that way for your engine.
so its good if you wait for a 30 sec to minute before turning on your AC.
cheers ineedacoolnick Wow. A lot of useful information; much of it stuff I didn't understand. :) bottom line though is that I shall continue warming up my car. Ok next qst - when is it ok to put the AC on? IMMEDIATELY when putting the car on, or only once its warmed up? Thanks. MilleDane
I dont agree - but whats in bold i agree with. It doesnt hurt a modern engine to go from start, it's an old myth..!
The oils today are so good, and the engines are so well build that it wont damage it, as long as you dont get on it, until it's warm..
Actualy i would say that the carbon build-up from idle running for a long time wil harm it more..
I have worked with cars and engines all my life, and used to ba a factory rep. with Mercedes in Denmark. Even their enginers are split in this question, but their engine specialists say what i state above.!
Urban Legends die harder than a modern engine! :wink: [/b] gtmash
^Correct, according to experts^
Warming up was for carburetted cars from the 70s. MilleDane
Oups - sorry mate, didnt catch that you had posted that. But hey we agree :)
Thanks for pointing it out gtmash.. :)
MilleDane is not going for the copycat title!! gtmash
Hey, actual expert advice! This thread is hilarious, by the way. XRW-147 ^matey you crack me up :lol: MilleDane
:blah5:
How do you compare a combustion engie with a human body??
As the matter of fact, i think the only problem you'll enqounter with running straight out of bed is your brain thats not full on, and you might stumble - i dought your heart will stop..
Well anyway - your opinion to you, you've said nothing that will change my mind.
Peace out! sniper420
have u heard anything abt warming up b4 exercise? MilleDane
Sure have,but willit killyouor hurt your internals (heart, lungs etc.)
You can strain a muscle yes, but thats it..wellyeah, probably do something about your mood.
Plus remember weare not talking from 0 to 100%, we are actualy talking less than 30%.. Hey i got an idea!!
Does that mean you have to lay still when you wake untill your pulse is 70, or can you go take your morning pee while your pulse is still around 50-60??- if we absolutely have compare engines and the human body.. gtmash
Funny, a surefire way of heating up my old Merc engine is to turn on the a/c. In fact, I have to turn it OFF to keep the car from overheating in a traffic jam after an hour. Temp comes right back down. I didn't know the a/c fans were anywhere NEAR the engine, considering I already have 3 other fans in front of the radiator to cool my engine. Dude, buy an old car if you are "into" mechanical engineering. You'll learn a lot more. MilleDane
There as problme with your car, the fans are supposed to kick in at lower temperatures when you have your AC on - have you checked that? gtmash
I already know I need a new radiator, but the fans are kicking in when they should (because they sound like jet engines powering up). They just slow down the inevitable, but I've never been in the red. Salman_20VT hello gtmash! for your kind information i had a Merc 190E 1991 2.6 6cylinder AMG version in silver....i had faced several problems with the radiator and fans mate, what used to happen was when ever i'd turn on AC the car's temp would slowly increase and reach to the red zone, presuming that situation my dad spended nearly 10k on the cooling system....i guess same problem presists in your car too......what happens is that when thermostat fails the circulation of the coolant around the cylinders haults and the temp raises. So when you switch off your AC the pressure decreases and coolant slowly start circulation, fan could not by then control the internal engine temps, that's why you're facing the opposite problem. What i heard is that when ever you change your radiator and fans do it from Gargash, a bit expensive but it will give you peace of mind. MilleDane, I compared human body which is biological and car engine which is mechanical just to give you an idea of how it is to rush up with all the things as if we people don't have a single minute to spare and get things going on the ideal temps as desired. Patience is what we all lack of, if we behave like humans and not like animals doing all the things at any time any where in a damn hurry! Life would be organised! There are some schedules, rules, regulations, and intelligence which we have to follow and put up to........Now as you said ''You can strain a muscle yes, but thats it....well yeah, probably do something about your mood'' so you did accpet that sudden burst of activity can affect us, even in minor terms but it will! This is what happens to cars as well! So if we'd be organised and have pateince with life than there'd hardy be any problems!! be it your body! or your car! all will be in perfect working condition :wink: now if some of you still don't agree, than its hopeless. :? hosrom_951 Guys........... Open the user's manual and read what it says.................



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